Is CogAT gone forever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Shared Accountability presented their review schedule to the BOE recently. Selection criteria for the magnets and accelerated math are scheduled for review in the Spring. MCPS won't be making any changes like going back to using CogAT until after that, if they do at all.

And these bad decisions are why The Office of Shared Accountability needs to be replaced.

By not using a Nationally-normed, race-neutral exam, I feel MCPS is basically admitting 'bias' or 'discrimination' since MCPS chose not to focus on better teaching, but instead handicaps kids that are smarter and better prepared to succeed. Until MCPS comes clean regarding all details of it's selections (which is hidden under the veil of "child privacy"), we will never know. For all we know, there's someone making up names on a spreadsheet behind the curtain? There's only one thing that is certain, though - MCPS is not choosing the best of the best children for the program.

Disagree by using an exam that favors those who can afford CogAT prep it unfairly skews selection to those with resources. You very well know kids hire CogAT tutors and it makes a difference. The last thing anyone needs is more of this gatekeeping.

Exactly, when my kids were applying to these special programs, I hired a CogAT tutor. It got their scores up by 25%. They breezed right into the mangets. I think that's why so many people want these tests back because they're so easily gamed.

Are you the same poster who said essentially the same thing 8 pages back referencing CogAT prep for TJ (Fairfax County)?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1152067.page

Look, the issue is a failure of MCPS to do a reasonably good job identifying ability (whether for GT designation or magnet admission/advanced class assignment), given the tools that they could (and did, not so long ago) employ. The tools they do use (e.g., MAP) are far more gameable than tools like CogAT. Those tools used also don't evidence underlying capability to the degree a tool like CogAT would. The paradigm they've kept, then, more significantly advantages those of means (including those coming from private school, as they then are allowed additional ways to test in), flying in the face of the equity aims espoused by MCPS leadership & the BOE.

The answer doesn't have to be CogAT, but it shouldn't be what they've adopted. Even if they couldn't identify an alternate ability measure that better resisted being gamed, including CogAT with a robust heuristic would beat the current approach hands down.

I know! As long as it's prepable, and I can get my kids an advantage, I'm all for it.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Shared Accountability presented their review schedule to the BOE recently. Selection criteria for the magnets and accelerated math are scheduled for review in the Spring. MCPS won't be making any changes like going back to using CogAT until after that, if they do at all.

And these bad decisions are why The Office of Shared Accountability needs to be replaced.

By not using a Nationally-normed, race-neutral exam, I feel MCPS is basically admitting 'bias' or 'discrimination' since MCPS chose not to focus on better teaching, but instead handicaps kids that are smarter and better prepared to succeed. Until MCPS comes clean regarding all details of it's selections (which is hidden under the veil of "child privacy"), we will never know. For all we know, there's someone making up names on a spreadsheet behind the curtain? There's only one thing that is certain, though - MCPS is not choosing the best of the best children for the program.

Disagree by using an exam that favors those who can afford CogAT prep it unfairly skews selection to those with resources. You very well know kids hire CogAT tutors and it makes a difference. The last thing anyone needs is more of this gatekeeping.

Exactly, when my kids were applying to these special programs, I hired a CogAT tutor. It got their scores up by 25%. They breezed right into the mangets. I think that's why so many people want these tests back because they're so easily gamed.

Are you the same poster who said essentially the same thing 8 pages back referencing CogAT prep for TJ (Fairfax County)?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1152067.page

Look, the issue is a failure of MCPS to do a reasonably good job identifying ability (whether for GT designation or magnet admission/advanced class assignment), given the tools that they could (and did, not so long ago) employ. The tools they do use (e.g., MAP) are far more gameable than tools like CogAT. Those tools used also don't evidence underlying capability to the degree a tool like CogAT would. The paradigm they've kept, then, more significantly advantages those of means (including those coming from private school, as they then are allowed additional ways to test in), flying in the face of the equity aims espoused by MCPS leadership & the BOE.

The answer doesn't have to be CogAT, but it shouldn't be what they've adopted. Even if they couldn't identify an alternate ability measure that better resisted being gamed, including CogAT with a robust heuristic would beat the current approach hands down.

I know! As long as it's prepable, and I can get my kids an advantage, I'm all for it.

+100

Goodness gracious, some of you are allergic to reasoned critique. The extent to which you will go just to shift focus is rather impressive, but in a sad way.

Pluses don't hide the fact that MAP is easier to game than CogAT, creates an inequity by being so when used as MCPS does for placement decisions, and is a worse choice for that job in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Shared Accountability presented their review schedule to the BOE recently. Selection criteria for the magnets and accelerated math are scheduled for review in the Spring. MCPS won't be making any changes like going back to using CogAT until after that, if they do at all.

And these bad decisions are why The Office of Shared Accountability needs to be replaced.

By not using a Nationally-normed, race-neutral exam, I feel MCPS is basically admitting 'bias' or 'discrimination' since MCPS chose not to focus on better teaching, but instead handicaps kids that are smarter and better prepared to succeed. Until MCPS comes clean regarding all details of it's selections (which is hidden under the veil of "child privacy"), we will never know. For all we know, there's someone making up names on a spreadsheet behind the curtain? There's only one thing that is certain, though - MCPS is not choosing the best of the best children for the program.

Disagree by using an exam that favors those who can afford CogAT prep it unfairly skews selection to those with resources. You very well know kids hire CogAT tutors and it makes a difference. The last thing anyone needs is more of this gatekeeping.

Exactly, when my kids were applying to these special programs, I hired a CogAT tutor. It got their scores up by 25%. They breezed right into the mangets. I think that's why so many people want these tests back because they're so easily gamed.

Are you the same poster who said essentially the same thing 8 pages back referencing CogAT prep for TJ (Fairfax County)?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1152067.page

Look, the issue is a failure of MCPS to do a reasonably good job identifying ability (whether for GT designation or magnet admission/advanced class assignment), given the tools that they could (and did, not so long ago) employ. The tools they do use (e.g., MAP) are far more gameable than tools like CogAT. Those tools used also don't evidence underlying capability to the degree a tool like CogAT would. The paradigm they've kept, then, more significantly advantages those of means (including those coming from private school, as they then are allowed additional ways to test in), flying in the face of the equity aims espoused by MCPS leadership & the BOE.

The answer doesn't have to be CogAT, but it shouldn't be what they've adopted. Even if they couldn't identify an alternate ability measure that better resisted being gamed, including CogAT with a robust heuristic would beat the current approach hands down.

I know! As long as it's prepable, and I can get my kids an advantage, I'm all for it.

You definitely not alone here. Many families prefer using tests that are easily gamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Shared Accountability presented their review schedule to the BOE recently. Selection criteria for the magnets and accelerated math are scheduled for review in the Spring. MCPS won't be making any changes like going back to using CogAT until after that, if they do at all.

And these bad decisions are why The Office of Shared Accountability needs to be replaced.

By not using a Nationally-normed, race-neutral exam, I feel MCPS is basically admitting 'bias' or 'discrimination' since MCPS chose not to focus on better teaching, but instead handicaps kids that are smarter and better prepared to succeed. Until MCPS comes clean regarding all details of it's selections (which is hidden under the veil of "child privacy"), we will never know. For all we know, there's someone making up names on a spreadsheet behind the curtain? There's only one thing that is certain, though - MCPS is not choosing the best of the best children for the program.

Disagree by using an exam that favors those who can afford CogAT prep it unfairly skews selection to those with resources. You very well know kids hire CogAT tutors and it makes a difference. The last thing anyone needs is more of this gatekeeping.

Exactly, when my kids were applying to these special programs, I hired a CogAT tutor. It got their scores up by 25%. They breezed right into the mangets. I think that's why so many people want these tests back because they're so easily gamed.

Are you the same poster who said essentially the same thing 8 pages back referencing CogAT prep for TJ (Fairfax County)?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1152067.page

Look, the issue is a failure of MCPS to do a reasonably good job identifying ability (whether for GT designation or magnet admission/advanced class assignment), given the tools that they could (and did, not so long ago) employ. The tools they do use (e.g., MAP) are far more gameable than tools like CogAT. Those tools used also don't evidence underlying capability to the degree a tool like CogAT would. The paradigm they've kept, then, more significantly advantages those of means (including those coming from private school, as they then are allowed additional ways to test in), flying in the face of the equity aims espoused by MCPS leadership & the BOE.

The answer doesn't have to be CogAT, but it shouldn't be what they've adopted. Even if they couldn't identify an alternate ability measure that better resisted being gamed, including CogAT with a robust heuristic would beat the current approach hands down.

I know! As long as it's prepable, and I can get my kids an advantage, I'm all for it.

+100

Goodness gracious, some of you are allergic to reasoned critique. The extent to which you will go just to shift focus is rather impressive, but in a sad way.

Pluses don't hide the fact that MAP is easier to game than CogAT, creates an inequity by being so when used as MCPS does for placement decisions, and is a worse choice for that job in the first place.

I know MAP is easier so even less affluent families have a shot, whereas with CogAT, only the truly wealthy can afford the expensive CogAT tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Office of Shared Accountability presented their review schedule to the BOE recently. Selection criteria for the magnets and accelerated math are scheduled for review in the Spring. MCPS won't be making any changes like going back to using CogAT until after that, if they do at all.

And these bad decisions are why The Office of Shared Accountability needs to be replaced.

By not using a Nationally-normed, race-neutral exam, I feel MCPS is basically admitting 'bias' or 'discrimination' since MCPS chose not to focus on better teaching, but instead handicaps kids that are smarter and better prepared to succeed. Until MCPS comes clean regarding all details of it's selections (which is hidden under the veil of "child privacy"), we will never know. For all we know, there's someone making up names on a spreadsheet behind the curtain? There's only one thing that is certain, though - MCPS is not choosing the best of the best children for the program.

Disagree by using an exam that favors those who can afford CogAT prep it unfairly skews selection to those with resources. You very well know kids hire CogAT tutors and it makes a difference. The last thing anyone needs is more of this gatekeeping.

Exactly, when my kids were applying to these special programs, I hired a CogAT tutor. It got their scores up by 25%. They breezed right into the mangets. I think that's why so many people want these tests back because they're so easily gamed.

Are you the same poster who said essentially the same thing 8 pages back referencing CogAT prep for TJ (Fairfax County)?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1152067.page

Look, the issue is a failure of MCPS to do a reasonably good job identifying ability (whether for GT designation or magnet admission/advanced class assignment), given the tools that they could (and did, not so long ago) employ. The tools they do use (e.g., MAP) are far more gameable than tools like CogAT. Those tools used also don't evidence underlying capability to the degree a tool like CogAT would. The paradigm they've kept, then, more significantly advantages those of means (including those coming from private school, as they then are allowed additional ways to test in), flying in the face of the equity aims espoused by MCPS leadership & the BOE.

The answer doesn't have to be CogAT, but it shouldn't be what they've adopted. Even if they couldn't identify an alternate ability measure that better resisted being gamed, including CogAT with a robust heuristic would beat the current approach hands down.

I know! As long as it's prepable, and I can get my kids an advantage, I'm all for it.

+100

Goodness gracious, some of you are allergic to reasoned critique. The extent to which you will go just to shift focus is rather impressive, but in a sad way.

Pluses don't hide the fact that MAP is easier to game than CogAT, creates an inequity by being so when used as MCPS does for placement decisions, and is a worse choice for that job in the first place.

I know MAP is easier so even less affluent families have a shot, whereas with CogAT, only the truly wealthy can afford the expensive CogAT tutors.

Now here's a hoot! A special twist on the TJ CogAT prep claim, with language seemingly custom-designed for disinformation. "Expensive CogAT tutors." As if the outside tutoring for MAP is easily approached by families at the lower end of the payscale.

What are you, a shill for RSM or something, seeking increased sales ("Look! We're approachable! Keep the system as it is! [Never mind the persistent underlying inequity implied -- it's great for our sales!]")? A prepper parent hoping to preserve differential access? Tutoring companies not engaging in this kind of system-rigging (if they exist) and families seeking to improve their children's knowledge/experience without keeping others down are just fine, but you folks are pathetic.

MAP scores are highly exposure based. Far more so than for tests like CogAT, prep for which, to whatever extent possible, would be considerably harder. A system incorporating something like CogAT (and reducing reliance on the more gameable metric) would evidence the ability/need that the magnet programs are supposed to address with considerably greater fidelity.

[Anonymous]

Any person that would prep for cogAT is going to do well on the MAP too, so the argument that the cogAT is coachable is pretty weak. But the cogAT might catch smart kids who don’t do well on the MAP because they didn’t have good teachers.