Lizzo sued for hostile work environment (fat shaming and sexual harassing)

[Anonymous]

I know some of you hate on deaux moi, but she definitely gets the inside scoop. She said that she’s been getting a lot of messages about that and none are positive. While people aren’t saying they experienced exactly what the dancers claimed, people are saying, equivocally Lizzo is not a nice person. Very difficult to work with.

[Anonymous]

I had a job in the entertainment industry that was remarkably similar to this. Really similar dynamics -- very sexually charged workplace and a culture of anything goes that was used to cover up a host of abusive behaviors.

One parallel -- a boss with major control issues and possibly a personality disorder (in my case definitely, not going to diagnose Lizzo). In retrospect it was really obvious to many people involved, but at the time all of this person's many inappropriate behaviors were justified and defended by management as okay, even with many people complaining, quitting, people becoming depressed and developing substance abuse issues, etc. Every time someone would leave, the line would be "they were the problem" even as privately many of us identified with the person who left and felt they had a valid grievance.

A big issue that I've come to understand much better having been through it -- if you are going to have a workplace where very sexually charged behavior is part of the culture, you need to have really clear guidelines around CONSENT. Is it okay to invite people out to a strip club after work? Sure, as long as it's totally optional and choosing not to go won't impact people's employment. Can you try and force people to engage in sexual acts at the strip club? NO, duh, this shouldn't even need to be explained. Can you touch people in a sexual manner or force them to touch you in a sexual manner without their consent? NO, again, this is super basic and if you don't get it, you should not be in a position of authority over anyone because you are essentially a sexual predator.

I've come to really hate people who put themselves out there as very liberated and progressive and then are privately abusive. I think it's actually pretty common and I hate them more than people who don't pretend to give a damn about other people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I easily believe she's a terror, but fat shaming? huh?

I believe that. Fat girls are masters at fat shaming.

Wait, what? How and why?

It’s interesting to see so many posters shocked by the notion of a fat person bullying other fat people. This is a manifestation of a basic principle of psychology, projection.

It’s like the legislator who spends so much of his time decrying the moral turpitude of the LGBTQ community and passing legislation to harm them, meanwhile he is propositioning other men for sex in public restrooms.

If these allegations are true then it just means Lizzo is a very conflicted person who at some level hates herself. In that respect she’s like a great many other human beings on the planet.

As an ex fat person, trust me, the women who have treated me the worst were fellow fat women. They don't even have the decency to do it behind your back like skinny women. Fr, fr.

Just like women judge other women's looks the most. Internalized patriarchy is a hell of a thing.

DP. Maybe eventually you'll realize that when women are judging women, it's just women, no men or patriarchy are involved. Just women.

NP who disagrees. Sometimes it is internalized misogyny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I easily believe she's a terror, but fat shaming? huh?

I believe that. Fat girls are masters at fat shaming.

Wait, what? How and why?

It’s interesting to see so many posters shocked by the notion of a fat person bullying other fat people. This is a manifestation of a basic principle of psychology, projection.

It’s like the legislator who spends so much of his time decrying the moral turpitude of the LGBTQ community and passing legislation to harm them, meanwhile he is propositioning other men for sex in public restrooms.

If these allegations are true then it just means Lizzo is a very conflicted person who at some level hates herself. In that respect she’s like a great many other human beings on the planet.

As an ex fat person, trust me, the women who have treated me the worst were fellow fat women. They don't even have the decency to do it behind your back like skinny women. Fr, fr.

Just like women judge other women's looks the most. Internalized patriarchy is a hell of a thing.

DP. Maybe eventually you'll realize that when women are judging women, it's just women, no men or patriarchy are involved. Just women.

NP who disagrees. Sometimes it is internalized misogyny.

Yeah the patriarchy has women doing the work for them while they are gaming in the home office.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The people (person?) on this thread saying "you can just walk away" doesn't understand that when you are employed by someone, you can't always. Not only might there not be another job suitable to your skillset (and being a dancer is a niche skillset), but these industries tend to be insular. Quitting a tour could piss off not only the artist, but also the choreographer, tour manager, booking agent, etc. Sure, maybe it gets so bad that you are willing to move in with your parents and work at McDonald's. But if simply asking for a workplace free of sexual harassment and coercion could result in you losing your job AND being blackballed in your industry, then no you CAN'T just "walk away."

There is no reason that entering the entertainment industry should mean that you subject yourself to abuse and harassment, I don't understand why so many people think that should be the case. Why? Why shouldn't an entertainer be entitled to a safe workplace?

At the highest levels, entertainers need to be a special brand of crazy to keep entertaining and keep things interesting. You lose that and they become boring/uninteresting. So the assumption is that you will deal with a little bit of crazy in the industry. It's not a factory floor concerned with OHSA protections. It's entertainment.

It's like going to a law firm and complaining about all of the combative, scheming personalities. Well...yes.

This is why I can both 1) sympathize with the dancers who had to work in that environment, bc I wouldn't want to, and also 2) wonder with some exasperation what the dancers expected when they joined Lizzo Inc, known for raunchy, overtly sexual (but positive!) lyrics. I think artistic endeavors like rock bands, etc. can't be easily compared to a corporate job. That's why when people say, how would you feel if this happened at your job, it hits as being a bit off. My job isn't producing/stylizing raunchy rap music, and if it were, I wouldn't be stunned that it also entailed raunchy, vulgar activities.

Being overtly sexual and body-positive are not the same things as pressuring an employee to do something sexual against their will, and fat-shaming an employee. These women are not suing Lizzo for being raunchy.

In professional sports, rookie athletes are hazed into doing embarrassing things and constantly critiqued about their bodies.

Some workplaces are just a little bit different.

A little bit different? Abuse is abuse. Stop trying to normalize it.

I bet you grew up in an abusive household and think this is normal. It isn't and it's time to stop tolerating it.

[Anonymous]

She seemed off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a job in the entertainment industry that was remarkably similar to this. Really similar dynamics -- very sexually charged workplace and a culture of anything goes that was used to cover up a host of abusive behaviors.

One parallel -- a boss with major control issues and possibly a personality disorder (in my case definitely, not going to diagnose Lizzo). In retrospect it was really obvious to many people involved, but at the time all of this person's many inappropriate behaviors were justified and defended by management as okay, even with many people complaining, quitting, people becoming depressed and developing substance abuse issues, etc. Every time someone would leave, the line would be "they were the problem" even as privately many of us identified with the person who left and felt they had a valid grievance.

A big issue that I've come to understand much better having been through it -- if you are going to have a workplace where very sexually charged behavior is part of the culture, you need to have really clear guidelines around CONSENT. Is it okay to invite people out to a strip club after work? Sure, as long as it's totally optional and choosing not to go won't impact people's employment. Can you try and force people to engage in sexual acts at the strip club? NO, duh, this shouldn't even need to be explained. Can you touch people in a sexual manner or force them to touch you in a sexual manner without their consent? NO, again, this is super basic and if you don't get it, you should not be in a position of authority over anyone because you are essentially a sexual predator.

I've come to really hate people who put themselves out there as very liberated and progressive and then are privately abusive. I think it's actually pretty common and I hate them more than people who don't pretend to give a damn about other people.

Should any workplace have a sexually charged culture? I don’t think that is necessary in any workplace. No one really has full agency in the workplace, all actions influence how they are seen, even when events or actions are voluntary or optional.