WashPost: College is remade as tech majors surge and humanities dwindle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

That’s the problem with DC educated elites. That’s not my problem or the rest of the society’s problem. They would rather have their boys get useless degrees than skilled labor jobs. The HVAC technician who fixed my AC in 2018 (long before this era of high inflation) told me that he was making $130k and needless to say, started earning positive income early with no student debt.

If only the local school system would accept this and stop trying to force everyone on the same path and focusing on pointless gaps.

+1000
A kid who hates school, struggles throughout, will be much better served by a vocational program as part of HS. Don't make that kid take 2 years of French that they might barely pass and will make them hate school even more. Same with advanced math, etc. Let them study Auto mechanics, HVAC, etc starting in HS for 1-3 hours a day. Let them get an "internship" by senior year with some on the job shadowing. Much better use of their time than making them take French and Algebra 2---develop a math class that will be much more practical/useful for someone going into the trades or not onto college.
Because the fact is, someone who hates school, struggles and barely gets a 2.4 in HS is not likely a good candidate for college immediately upon graduation. They will likely not enjoy college and it will be a waste of $$ and time. so we need to stop pushing them to do this and that it is the "only path to success".

I know I pay $140-150/hr just to have a plumber or HVAC technician come to my house (unless you are on a "plan"). Even in a larger company (with more management and overhead), those technicians are making good money. And more importantly for certain people this is what they love to do. Plenty of kids who "hate school" and regular classes will shine at these hand on problem solving trades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Germany also has a very progressive tax structure, a massive social safety net, incredibly strong unions, and powerful worker rights laws. All of that make it much more palatable for parents to track a 12 year old into the trades (of course the rich parents would still just send their kids to a private school).

But it seems to me that Germany still is a competitive and productive capitalist society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Germany also has a very progressive tax structure, a massive social safety net, incredibly strong unions, and powerful worker rights laws. All of that make it much more palatable for parents to track a 12 year old into the trades (of course the rich parents would still just send their kids to a private school).

But it seems to me that Germany still is a competitive and productive capitalist society.

They don't spend 3%+ of their GDP on "defense" programs so have money left over for these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

That’s the problem with DC educated elites. That’s not my problem or the rest of the society’s problem. They would rather have their boys get useless degrees than skilled labor jobs. The HVAC technician who fixed my AC in 2018 (long before this era of high inflation) told me that he was making $130k and needless to say, started earning positive income early with no student debt.

If only the local school system would accept this and stop trying to force everyone on the same path and focusing on pointless gaps.

+1000
A kid who hates school, struggles throughout, will be much better served by a vocational program as part of HS. Don't make that kid take 2 years of French that they might barely pass and will make them hate school even more. Same with advanced math, etc. Let them study Auto mechanics, HVAC, etc starting in HS for 1-3 hours a day. Let them get an "internship" by senior year with some on the job shadowing. Much better use of their time than making them take French and Algebra 2---develop a math class that will be much more practical/useful for someone going into the trades or not onto college.
Because the fact is, someone who hates school, struggles and barely gets a 2.4 in HS is not likely a good candidate for college immediately upon graduation. They will likely not enjoy college and it will be a waste of $$ and time. so we need to stop pushing them to do this and that it is the "only path to success".

I know I pay $140-150/hr just to have a plumber or HVAC technician come to my house (unless you are on a "plan"). Even in a larger company (with more management and overhead), those technicians are making good money. And more importantly for certain people this is what they love to do. Plenty of kids who "hate school" and regular classes will shine at these hand on problem solving trades.

Agree with everything you say. I would like to add that skilled trades still require some level of education. Good mechanics know what causes various kinds of problems in the real world. Those jobs still require some brain. It really doesn’t do the society any good when we the “educated elites” look down on those jobs and assume that they don’t require any education. It takes both hands and brain to do those jobs, even though they don’t require multivariable calculus or differential equations. 😊

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Germany also has a very progressive tax structure, a massive social safety net, incredibly strong unions, and powerful worker rights laws. All of that make it much more palatable for parents to track a 12 year old into the trades (of course the rich parents would still just send their kids to a private school).

But it seems to me that Germany still is a competitive and productive capitalist society.

They don't spend 3%+ of their GDP on "defense" programs so have money left over for these things.

But now they are spending 2% of GDP on defense, up from 1%, thanks to Russia. Also, their Leopard tanks are among the best in the world. Even our M1A2 Abrams tanks use Rheinmetall’s tank guns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

+1

Also, it's not really the child who decides at age 12. It is decided based on testing. So yes, a late bloomer would miss out. I personally don't think it's a good idea to track kids at age 12. I know kids who were only on grade level for math in 6th grade and who hate science who go on to be successful engineers and doctors. But they wouldn't have been put on the "stem college track" under this system.
I much prefer our way of kids getting to select their major path when they are adults/18+.

I do agree we need more Vocational High schools as an option for kids who want that. No kid should be forced to take ALG 2 like most states require----a kid not heading to college would be much better off having some modified version that focuses more on practical applications/math for the vocational areas/financial literacy than being forced to struggle thru normal Alg 2. Likewise, rather than taking a FL in HS a kid not planning on college who loves to work "with stuff" would benefit from HVAC, auto mechanics, basic IT training, etc as half their day. It was done in the 80s/90s and was a huge hit for those kids on that path. 2nd half of the day they take eng/hist/math requirements but focus 3-4 periods a day on something the kid actually likes and is learning skills for going onto the trades upon graduation.

You mean basing it on parental wealth instead of testing?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if it’s a good idea to force everyone to study algebra 2, but I think that even for kids in skilled trades tracks they still should get some fundamental education. I don’t know the details of German education, but my former colleagues told me that even in skilled trades tracks, teenagers still get an education—they don’t just spend their entire time working in shops. Our enlisted men and women don’t just spend their entire time shooting rifles. They still do some classroom learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

+1

Also, it's not really the child who decides at age 12. It is decided based on testing. So yes, a late bloomer would miss out. I personally don't think it's a good idea to track kids at age 12. I know kids who were only on grade level for math in 6th grade and who hate science who go on to be successful engineers and doctors. But they wouldn't have been put on the "stem college track" under this system.
I much prefer our way of kids getting to select their major path when they are adults/18+.

I do agree we need more Vocational High schools as an option for kids who want that. No kid should be forced to take ALG 2 like most states require----a kid not heading to college would be much better off having some modified version that focuses more on practical applications/math for the vocational areas/financial literacy than being forced to struggle thru normal Alg 2. Likewise, rather than taking a FL in HS a kid not planning on college who loves to work "with stuff" would benefit from HVAC, auto mechanics, basic IT training, etc as half their day. It was done in the 80s/90s and was a huge hit for those kids on that path. 2nd half of the day they take eng/hist/math requirements but focus 3-4 periods a day on something the kid actually likes and is learning skills for going onto the trades upon graduation.

You mean basing it on parental wealth instead of testing?

Nope. Based on their own academic merits and ability at age 18. Every kid can find a school to major in CS or Engineering if that is what they truly want to do. Might not be VAtech or GA Tech or MIT or Stanford, but they can find a school and get the degree. There is a path to college for most kids, even if parents are NOT wealthy. It just may not be at an elite school. You go the local route or where you get scholarships (a tier below where you might get into as a reach). Most states have schools that are only $25K/year, so with student loans and working on all breaks, the kid only needs to have parents pay $5-7K. There are affordable paths, just not what you think your snowflake should have.

12 Yo should not be tracked for their future careers/academic path without much recourse for changing. Some stars at that age burn out/dwindle by age 18/22. Others come into their own at a much later date.

[Anonymous]

Just curious: Do VA, MD and DC public schools require Algebra II as the minimum for HS graduation? If that’s the case, it’s too much. California requires Algebra I as the minimum for HS graduation, but that requirement is under review by the state education officials. That requirement was imposed decades ago and reflects institutional racism. They are thinking about getting rid of that requirement. In some respects they have a point: why require algebra I when your career goal is to be a hair stylist? Arithmetic should be required for HS graduation though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious: Do VA, MD and DC public schools require Algebra II as the minimum for HS graduation? If that’s the case, it’s too much. California requires Algebra I as the minimum for HS graduation, but that requirement is under review by the state education officials. That requirement was imposed decades ago and reflects institutional racism. They are thinking about getting rid of that requirement. In some respects they have a point: why require algebra I when your career goal is to be a hair stylist? Arithmetic should be required for HS graduation though.

These labels are meaningless the material has just been shuffled around over the years. MCPS algebra 2 introduces plenty of topics that used to be algebra 1. Even some of pre calc was once algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious: Do VA, MD and DC public schools require Algebra II as the minimum for HS graduation? If that’s the case, it’s too much. California requires Algebra I as the minimum for HS graduation, but that requirement is under review by the state education officials. That requirement was imposed decades ago and reflects institutional racism. They are thinking about getting rid of that requirement. In some respects they have a point: why require algebra I when your career goal is to be a hair stylist? Arithmetic should be required for HS graduation though.

MD requires Algebra 1, Geometry, and a math course every year to fill out the 4 years.

Instead of asking why a diploma requires passing (not mastering) Algebra 1, consider asking why a hair stylist needs a high school degree. World History? English literature? Physics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn’t the humanities, it’s that middle class people have been told that college is the path to a good career, which they translated as trade school.

In the old days, only children of nobles went to college, and the purpose of a college education was anything but a “job.” Actually getting a “job” was beneath them. But the purpose of college education has changed greatly over the years. Yes, most students and their parents look at colleges as no different in essence from trade schools.

That said, why force kids into STEM if they don’t have a passion for it? CS and engineering undergraduate education is no joke. There’s a reason why engineering schools (at least the decent ones) have high washout rates. Kids are not going to thrive in anything they don’t have a passion for.

It's not passion, it's talent. Engineering degree has washouts because it has standards; means something important in the real world of cars and houses and computers and airplanes and agriculture and pharmaceuticals. No one cares if you learned nothing while getting an English or History degree.

[Anonymous]

If you can read this and write a reply back. thank a humanities major.

I could read and write before I even entered kindergarten. So could my kids. Humanities majors didn't have anything to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

That’s the problem with DC educated elites. That’s not my problem or the rest of the society’s problem. They would rather have their boys get useless degrees than skilled labor jobs. The HVAC technician who fixed my AC in 2018 (long before this era of high inflation) told me that he was making $130k and needless to say, started earning positive income early with no student debt.

If only the local school system would accept this and stop trying to force everyone on the same path and focusing on pointless gaps.

+1000
A kid who hates school, struggles throughout, will be much better served by a vocational program as part of HS. Don't make that kid take 2 years of French that they might barely pass and will make them hate school even more. Same with advanced math, etc. Let them study Auto mechanics, HVAC, etc starting in HS for 1-3 hours a day. Let them get an "internship" by senior year with some on the job shadowing. Much better use of their time than making them take French and Algebra 2---develop a math class that will be much more practical/useful for someone going into the trades or not onto college.
Because the fact is, someone who hates school, struggles and barely gets a 2.4 in HS is not likely a good candidate for college immediately upon graduation. They will likely not enjoy college and it will be a waste of $$ and time. so we need to stop pushing them to do this and that it is the "only path to success".

I know I pay $140-150/hr just to have a plumber or HVAC technician come to my house (unless you are on a "plan"). Even in a larger company (with more management and overhead), those technicians are making good money. And more importantly for certain people this is what they love to do. Plenty of kids who "hate school" and regular classes will shine at these hand on problem solving trades.

People who enjoy their plumbing or HVAC job have good personalities, and relaxing work environment, and less college debt, and not obsessed with looking richer and having higher status credentials than the neighbors, not a passion for poop water and dirty air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society devalues the humanities. That's why our society is in such a sad state.

Wrong. The society of today is not devaluing humanities. Universities’ humanities departments have devalued humanities degrees in the last few decades. In the good old days when few people went to college and fewer studied humanities, those with humanities degrees were the few, the elite of the society. Most of them came from noble families. They didn’t need to get “jobs” to make a living. Then starting in the 1980’s the society was sold the idea that EVERY high school graduate should go to college. Or at least most of them. It was easy money for universities. No labs were needed (unlike science and engineering), and a history class can be held in a big lecture hall of 500 people. Therefore, the society has not devalued humanities, but universities have definitely devalued humanities degrees.

Er, Hello, the universities don’t exactly operate in a vacuum. They mirror what society wants

Agree. But the society “wanted” it because the political elite has been pushing this ridiculous idea of “every child must go to college” for the last 40 years. Germany and Japan are advanced economies but they are fine with most of their youths not going to college. In Germany, a child as young as 11 or 12 years old decides whether he/she wants to go on college track or trade track.

Do you think it is a good thing to decide at 12? What about late bloomers? Also, in Germany, you learn one skill and people don’t really ever switch careers. I can’t imagine not having that flexibility.

I agree, though, that pushing everyone to college is probably not the best thing. The problem is it was (still is?) very much a class thing. Which of us wants to be first in not sending our child? We do it because we think it is expected of our class and we want them to have the opportunities. I don’t see that ever changing. UMC/UC folks will always send their children to college.

That’s the problem with DC educated elites. That’s not my problem or the rest of the society’s problem. They would rather have their boys get useless degrees than skilled labor jobs. The HVAC technician who fixed my AC in 2018 (long before this era of high inflation) told me that he was making $130k and needless to say, started earning positive income early with no student debt.

If only the local school system would accept this and stop trying to force everyone on the same path and focusing on pointless gaps.

+1000
A kid who hates school, struggles throughout, will be much better served by a vocational program as part of HS. Don't make that kid take 2 years of French that they might barely pass and will make them hate school even more. Same with advanced math, etc. Let them study Auto mechanics, HVAC, etc starting in HS for 1-3 hours a day. Let them get an "internship" by senior year with some on the job shadowing. Much better use of their time than making them take French and Algebra 2---develop a math class that will be much more practical/useful for someone going into the trades or not onto college.
Because the fact is, someone who hates school, struggles and barely gets a 2.4 in HS is not likely a good candidate for college immediately upon graduation. They will likely not enjoy college and it will be a waste of $$ and time. so we need to stop pushing them to do this and that it is the "only path to success".

I know I pay $140-150/hr just to have a plumber or HVAC technician come to my house (unless you are on a "plan"). Even in a larger company (with more management and overhead), those technicians are making good money. And more importantly for certain people this is what they love to do. Plenty of kids who "hate school" and regular classes will shine at these hand on problem solving trades.

People who enjoy their plumbing or HVAC job have good personalities, and relaxing work environment, and less college debt, and not obsessed with looking richer and having higher status credentials than the neighbors, not a passion for poop water and dirty air.

People don't come on a college forum to discuss HVAC and plumbing careers.

Sorry.