Yorktown vs WL — Ranking vs word on street

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL. This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year. How would you change it? Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school. Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose. But who will make this change?

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them.

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives?

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else.

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large.

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

This is the problem! It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids." IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access. My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.

I don't think this is a problem. At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this. I think this is a made up "issue."

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there.

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!!

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply. Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.

+1

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?

Is this policy new? Because back when my kid had to apply, the policy was you had stay in full IB or go back to your home school.

Full IB doesn’t mean IB diploma. It just means a minimum number of IB classes must be taken.

If a student is not at least enrolling in enough credits/required courses to fulfill an IB diploma, then they aren't "full IB."
The "full IB" transfer policy has been there as long as I have been aware in our APS history - but has not typically been enforced.
I'm curious how many of the limited IB diplomas issued each year are earned by transfer students v. WL-zoned students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capstone is to bolster Yorktown and reduce transfer to WL. They need more seats at WL to accommodate flow from Wakefield.

Yes, or many more W-L neighborhoods along the Yorktown border would likely have to be redistricted to Yorktown like Cherrydale, Waycroft Woodlawn, etc. Population growth is in South Arlington and not in the B
North. So makes sense to reduce transfers from Yorktown to W-L and encourage transfers from
Wakefield into W-L

Would neighbors accept moving to Yorktown?

I’m in Cherrydale, and live close enough to WL to hear the marching band practice and the PA system during athletic events at the stadium. Hell yes I’d put up a fight if my neighborhood was redistricted to Yorktown so that some kids who live 3 miles away can be bused to WL. If Arlington gets to that point, just get rid of zoned HS and make it all lottery.

Another Cherrydale resident here-- my kids are out of high school now, but I felt exactly the same. This topic used to make very angry, lol. If kids can't go to the high school that is less than 4 blocks from their home, then forget about zoned schools and go to a county- wide lottery.

I like the idea of a county wide lottery for high school. but it would never get enough support

If schools went full lottery, the UMC and MC families would all to Fairfax. That’s what always happens.

I am truly beginning to doubt that. There might be a modicum of departures, but not systemic evacuation of UMC to elsewhere. I've lived here 24 years, we are homeowners raising kids: I've heard lots of predictions of collapses in Arlington, whether from BRAC, financial crisis, sequestration, WFH. The population keeeps growing, the student population keeps growing, real estate keeps growing...there are myriad reasons. But never a collapse. People vastly underestimate the effect of the fact that only 20% of Arlington households have kids. If there is "flight," others will feel less crowding and competition for resources. That will attract families even more. The system equals out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL. This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year. How would you change it? Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school. Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose. But who will make this change?

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them.

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives?

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else.

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large.

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

This is the problem! It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids." IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access. My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.

I don't think this is a problem. At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this. I think this is a made up "issue."

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there.

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!!

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply. Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.

+1

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?

Is this policy new? Because back when my kid had to apply, the policy was you had stay in full IB or go back to your home school.

Full IB doesn’t mean IB diploma. It just means a minimum number of IB classes must be taken.

If a student is not at least enrolling in enough credits/required courses to fulfill an IB diploma, then they aren't "full IB."
The "full IB" transfer policy has been there as long as I have been aware in our APS history - but has not typically been enforced.
I'm curious how many of the limited IB diplomas issued each year are earned by transfer students v. WL-zoned students.

There is no such thing as a “limited IB diploma.” If a student takes IB classes but does not earn an IB diploma than the IB classes just show up on their transcript. So the comparison would be the number of transfer students who merely take IB classes v. the number of WL zoned students who merely take IB classes. I’d guess more students are in the second category but it’s not a fair comparison. As was previously pointed out, WL does not offer all of the AP classes that are offered at Wakefield or Yorktown so if a student wants to take an advanced level class in a particular subject they may have to take the IB class because the AP class is not offered.

[Anonymous]

I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

[Anonymous]

Man you all need to relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

Yes, and if it was Yorktown that had the IB program that would be so much more outrage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL. This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year. How would you change it? Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school. Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose. But who will make this change?

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them.

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives?

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else.

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large.

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

This is the problem! It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids." IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access. My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.

I don't think this is a problem. At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this. I think this is a made up "issue."

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there.

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!!

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply. Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.

+1

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?

Is this policy new? Because back when my kid had to apply, the policy was you had stay in full IB or go back to your home school.

This has been the policy for at least 14 years when my oldest was at WL and wasn’t full IB.

No you're wrong. This was just a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capstone is to bolster Yorktown and reduce transfer to WL. They need more seats at WL to accommodate flow from Wakefield.

Yes, or many more W-L neighborhoods along the Yorktown border would likely have to be redistricted to Yorktown like Cherrydale, Waycroft Woodlawn, etc. Population growth is in South Arlington and not in the B
North. So makes sense to reduce transfers from Yorktown to W-L and encourage transfers from
Wakefield into W-L

Would neighbors accept moving to Yorktown?

I’m in Cherrydale, and live close enough to WL to hear the marching band practice and the PA system during athletic events at the stadium. Hell yes I’d put up a fight if my neighborhood was redistricted to Yorktown so that some kids who live 3 miles away can be bused to WL. If Arlington gets to that point, just get rid of zoned HS and make it all lottery.

Another Cherrydale resident here-- my kids are out of high school now, but I felt exactly the same. This topic used to make very angry, lol. If kids can't go to the high school that is less than 4 blocks from their home, then forget about zoned schools and go to a county- wide lottery.

I like the idea of a county wide lottery for high school. but it would never get enough support

If schools went full lottery, the UMC and MC families would all to Fairfax. That’s what always happens.

I am truly beginning to doubt that. There might be a modicum of departures, but not systemic evacuation of UMC to elsewhere. I've lived here 24 years, we are homeowners raising kids: I've heard lots of predictions of collapses in Arlington, whether from BRAC, financial crisis, sequestration, WFH. The population keeeps growing, the student population keeps growing, real estate keeps growing...there are myriad reasons. But never a collapse. People vastly underestimate the effect of the fact that only 20% of Arlington households have kids. If there is "flight," others will feel less crowding and competition for resources. That will attract families even more. The system equals out.

I think there’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying re: the size of voting population who actually has kids. With only 20 percent of households having kids and with housing prices so high that many buyers can go private, it’s just not on the County’s list of worries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL. This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year. How would you change it? Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school. Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose. But who will make this change?

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them.

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives?

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else.

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large.

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

This is the problem! It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids." IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access. My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.

I don't think this is a problem. At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this. I think this is a made up "issue."

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there.

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!!

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply. Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.

+1

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?

Is this policy new? Because back when my kid had to apply, the policy was you had stay in full IB or go back to your home school.

This has been the policy for at least 14 years when my oldest was at WL and wasn’t full IB.

No you're wrong. This was just a few years ago.

Here is the policy from the APS website:

Participation requirements for the WL IB Diploma Programme are delineated below. Requirements include:

9th & 10th grades:
*enrollment in intensified classes for all core subjects (English, math, science, and social studies)
*continued enrollment in world language offered in the WL IB Diploma Programme (Arabic, Chinese/Mandarin, French, Latin, or Spanish)
*AP US Government course – 10th grade

11th & 12th grades:
*enrollment in courses required to meet IB Diploma Programme requirements (six IB subject courses in both 11th & 12th grades) in addition to IB core requirements (EE, TOK, and CAS); or
*enrollment in three or more IB subject courses in both Grade 11 and in Grade 12.
*Students not fulfilling minimum participation will return to their home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

IB is debatably a 100/class high school experience, since the program takes place in the largest high school and the students are not exclusively contained in an IB program and classes.

But, there are still 2 such opportunities with HB and AT (Arlington Tech).

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This is important to remember: transferring into IB (supposedly) requires you to take full IB. No picky-choosey like kids zoned for WL. This is a policy, IMO, APS needs to change.

NP whose Yorktown-zoned child wants to apply for IB next year. How would you change it? Either let the YT/Wakefield kids stay even if they don't do full IB, or make it so W-L kids can't dabble in IB, they either do it or not?

I would change it so they either do it or don't, same as everyone, since it's a program within a school. Letting everyone dabble in it, just defeats the purpose. But who will make this change?

Letting people "dabble" actually helps the program because they can offer a wider range of IB electives. If they limited access to only diploma students they would have electives with only a few students signing up and then they wouldn't offer them.

I believe that due to the extremely large number of high school students in this county, and the popularity of the IB program, they would easily fill, if they asked students to fully commit (perhaps at the latest by the start of grade 10) and decide to be "in or out".

I agree. If IB were established as its own option program, the typical high-pressure-expectations Arlington parents would be all over it like they are HBW. It would become an elite option school. But on second thought as I write this, the major obstacle to that happening would be the lack of extracurriculars. Parents expect their kids to be able to do and have it all. Separating IB from WL per se would disconnect their students from WL athletics. That's one of the problems Arlington Tech has now - students want to do activities AT doesn't offer (band) and it's too much of a hassle to go back to the home school for sports.

I don’t think APS is too keen on creating elite option schools. HBW became one due to its small size, but that wasn’t on purpose. Arlington Tech was purposefully not designed as an elite STEM school with admissions testing. A small elite IB option school would likely create division between the “dregs of humanity” at the neighborhood schools and the highly motivated academic stars at the elite IB option school. Also, would a small IB option school be able to offer the same number of IB electives?

Don't know and don't care. So what if the # of electives goes down? They still have their IB program and diploma. Option programs are choices and choices just might mean "choosing" to do without something else.

There's no point in creating this elite school if it doesn't attract a sizable number if kids away from the more crowded schools.

I think some PPs here overestimate the interest in the IB diploma. It is A LOT of work and the number of kids who actually complete the diploma isn't actually that large.

I'm not advocating for an IB program. I'm just saying that if it's going to be offered, it should be its own, actual IB program. If there isn't enough interest to sustain one, don't establish one; or try and if it doesn't draw enough, then eliminate it. Considering there are only approximately 60 IB diplomas issued in a given year, I think the program should be on "table 1" for budget cuts. Thousands of students across the country manage to get in and graduate from fine universities without an IB diploma and even without a single IB class. [b]The way IB is offered in APS is (1) inequitable and (2) not consistent with the actual IB program/curriculum.

There’s no requirement for schools to offer the IB Middle Years Programme to become an IB school. W-L has maintained one of the region’s most successful high school IB programs for 25 years. The schools new addition is allowing all eligible applicants an IB spot at W-L, and perhaps the W-L boundary should further shrink as needed to allow for continued access to all eligible students. Would it be equitable for IB to become an elite option program within W-L like Richard Montgomery HS in Rockville, closed to in-bounds W-L students? I don’t know.

But for now the W-L addition is meeting the needs of both IB and in-bounds neighborhood kids. In 5 years if enrollment continues upward in the south of the county unabated, then IB, HB, and other option programs might be up for debate. But as of now, no one is calling for changes.

This is the problem! It is serving "in-bounds neighborhood kids." IB should absolutely not become "an elite program" within WL that's open only to WL students. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. I don't care where they house the program. If they're going to offer it, it should be a full-time IB program consisting only of full-time IB students from across the county. It should NOT be open to the general WL populace (ie "serve in-bounds neighborhood kids") to take a few classes from in order to enhance their college applications - unless any high school student in any of the other high schools have that same access. My initial use of "elite" was not meant to describe the program, but to suggest how it would be viewed by Arlington parents always seeking the best for their genius children....like how people describe HBW as an "elite" program because it's small and highly coveted.

I don't think this is a problem. At least, unlike HB, if you really want your kid to go there (but you don't want them to do the full diploma or you don't get in through the lottery), you can move in bounds.

But I don't see many people actually complaining about this. I think this is a made up "issue."

I agree. It’s not really an issue apart from a few people on this forum claiming it’s not fair and that Yorktown should have better stats than W-L etc. Moreover maybe it’s good that some of the most disadvantaged kids in the metro area (who represent a large number of in-bounds W-L students) are exposed to highly motivated students on a daily basis at school, and that they can aspire to take on challenging coursework as they are able. That’s actually an argument for equity right there.

Wow, way to justify your extra benefits at W-L, blame the people who don't have it and call them whiners. Well done!!!

If you care that much about your kids taking IB classes then make sure they take the prerequisites and apply. Virtually everyone gets off the waitlist and now with the additional 600 seats it’s even more likely. No one is forced to transfer back to their zoned HS if they don’t do full IB as long as they take a bare minimum of IB classes.

+1

Really not seeing the issue here, unless a kid only wants to take just 1-2 IB classes?

Is this policy new? Because back when my kid had to apply, the policy was you had stay in full IB or go back to your home school.

Full IB doesn’t mean IB diploma. It just means a minimum number of IB classes must be taken.

If a student is not at least enrolling in enough credits/required courses to fulfill an IB diploma, then they aren't "full IB."
The "full IB" transfer policy has been there as long as I have been aware in our APS history - but has not typically been enforced.
I'm curious how many of the limited IB diplomas issued each year are earned by transfer students v. WL-zoned students.

There is no such thing as a “limited IB diploma.” If a student takes IB classes but does not earn an IB diploma than the IB classes just show up on their transcript. So the comparison would be the number of transfer students who merely take IB classes v. the number of WL zoned students who merely take IB classes. I’d guess more students are in the second category but it’s not a fair comparison. As was previously pointed out, WL does not offer all of the AP classes that are offered at Wakefield or Yorktown so if a student wants to take an advanced level class in a particular subject they may have to take the IB class because the AP class is not offered.

You misinterpreted my wording. By "limited," I meant the very few number -- the limited number of IB diplomas that are issued each year.
I'm less interested in how many WL students take any IB classes v. IB transfer students who don't complete the IB diploma. My interest is:
how many of the IB diplomas issued in a given year earned by transfer students v. WL-zoned students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

Yes, and if it was Yorktown that had the IB program that would be so much more outrage.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

Yes, and if it was Yorktown that had the IB program that would be so much more outrage.

Why?

Because privilege.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

Yes, and if it was Yorktown that had the IB program that would be so much more outrage.

Why?

Because privilege.

Huh? Any more than WL parents' sense of privilege and entitlement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it problematic that Arlington offers two 100/class high school experiences to a tiny percentage of its population (HB & IB). Clearly, the smaller groupings are hugely desired (I am not saying that desire is merited!). It’s a lottery for everyone in Arlington BUT those zoned for W&???? That’s nuts to me.

Yes, and if it was Yorktown that had the IB program that would be so much more outrage.

Why?

Because privilege.

Huh? Any more than WL parents' sense of privilege and entitlement?

Yorktown has the highest percentage of white students and lowest percentage of farms students. If those students automatically could be accepted into IB, because of where they already live due to privilege, yes, I believe there would be more outrage than it being at WL.