student loans...what will happen when payments start

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

Virginia is on the low end of state support for higher education per in-state student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

It's a negotiable benefit for high value faculty and administrators throughout higher education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

Virginia is on the low end of state support for higher education per in-state student.

Isn’t MD as well? But yeah the differences between states are pretty crazy. I grew up in NY and at least at the time SUNY schools didn’t give out a lot of financial aid, I’m not sure about now, but the cost to attend is so much lower than VA especially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

You don’t spend an extra year in school. You actually spend way less. Many of these insanely qualified kids (like mine) are graduating high school essentially as a mid year sophomore in college. If my son were to transfer to NVCC he would need one very very very light year in CC to transfer guest teed admissions to any school in Virginia. Though my son has some acceptances in and we are navigating the merit/scholarship portion now, NVCC to UVA is not off the table because he’s a “young” high school graduate (turns 18 in June) and would only have to take 18 credits at NVCC next year to get his required associates. This is all thanks to his heavy load of APs and DEs for which he has so far earned As and/or 5s on his exams.

HOWEVER the mindset here is F*caked and CC seen as inferior. Just as a PP said with her works of “caution” of the rigors of CC. Give me a god damn break. Nobody is getting an amazing rigorous experience in gen Ed’s at a gigantic university with 200 other class mates in a lecture hall.

I might be the PP you are referring to. I’m sure NVCC is great! The CC in my hometown was not so much and the stats class I took there one summer did not prepare me for the upper level stars class I took at my university. Just one example. I heard similar stories from my peers too. A bunch of my sisters credits didnt transfer when she moved to the state university even though she had been assured they would. Just saying do your research and it sounds like you did so you’re all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

It's a negotiable benefit for high value faculty and administrators throughout higher education.

Name a place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

Virginia is on the low end of state support for higher education per in-state student.

Isn’t MD as well? But yeah the differences between states are pretty crazy. I grew up in NY and at least at the time SUNY schools didn’t give out a lot of financial aid, I’m not sure about now, but the cost to attend is so much lower than VA especially.

No, I think Maryland provides significantly more per in-state student than Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

It's a negotiable benefit for high value faculty and administrators throughout higher education.

If this is the case why are there so many adjunct professors making $20K a year? Why are there grad student unions everywhere demanding more than minimum wage to teach classes? How many tenure track or tenured professors can there be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will never restart payments. The wait has been too long. Once people are used to something (in this case not paying) they will never be able to resume it. It’s a political nightmare. Look at all the Central Americans who have had their TPS renewed every two years for more than 25 years based on a hurricane that occurred in the last 90s. And these are actual citizens. Payment resumption will never happen.

From your mouth to Gods ears. If I have to restart the $700/m payment with the inflation that has occurred in the interim I will be flat broke. If I can eke out another 3 years I can make it to PSLF

You should have been paying on them all along. Time for a second job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

It's a negotiable benefit for high value faculty and administrators throughout higher education.

Name a place.

NP. It’s common for grad students working in residence life & housing to get free housing.

As for faculty, at Stanford don’t a lot of faculty members own homes on-campus at a discount? Penn offers mortgage assistance if you live in the surrounding neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will never restart payments. The wait has been too long. Once people are used to something (in this case not paying) they will never be able to resume it. It’s a political nightmare. Look at all the Central Americans who have had their TPS renewed every two years for more than 25 years based on a hurricane that occurred in the last 90s. And these are actual citizens. Payment resumption will never happen.

From your mouth to Gods ears. If I have to restart the $700/m payment with the inflation that has occurred in the interim I will be flat broke. If I can eke out another 3 years I can make it to PSLF

You should have been paying on them all along. Time for a second job.

I think the break was put in place for a reason- but why in earth wouldn’t borrowers have at least been putting some money aside during this time? Like not the equivalent of the entire payment ($700 in PP’s case) but something g to lessen the blow when payments resumed? Did everyone just think they never would?

I think the political blowback of restart/don’t restart is tough either way, and it’s not like the current administration initiated the freeze. I think the most likely case is sone middle ground- lower interest payments and/or a phase in of payment amounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will never restart payments. The wait has been too long. Once people are used to something (in this case not paying) they will never be able to resume it. It’s a political nightmare. Look at all the Central Americans who have had their TPS renewed every two years for more than 25 years based on a hurricane that occurred in the last 90s. And these are actual citizens. Payment resumption will never happen.

From your mouth to Gods ears. If I have to restart the $700/m payment with the inflation that has occurred in the interim I will be flat broke. If I can eke out another 3 years I can make it to PSLF

You should have been paying on them all along. Time for a second job.

I think the break was put in place for a reason- but why in earth wouldn’t borrowers have at least been putting some money aside during this time? Like not the equivalent of the entire payment ($700 in PP’s case) but something g to lessen the blow when payments resumed? Did everyone just think they never would?

I think the political blowback of restart/don’t restart is tough either way, and it’s not like the current administration initiated the freeze. I think the most likely case is sone middle ground- lower interest payments and/or a phase in of payment amounts.

Trump wins next election in a landslide if Biden resumes payments right before this recession. He will be viewed as the Democrat GWB especially after bailing out Silicon Valley tech and NYC crypto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

What schools offer such benefits? This is nonsense.

It's a negotiable benefit for high value faculty and administrators throughout higher education.

Name a place.

NP. It’s common for grad students working in residence life & housing to get free housing.

As for faculty, at Stanford don’t a lot of faculty members own homes on-campus at a discount? Penn offers mortgage assistance if you live in the surrounding neighborhood.

A dorm room for a grad student and minor mortgage assistance program is a far cry from the tony excessive benefits of "free housing for faculty" PP was claiming. Stanford and Penn and a few other private universities offer some mortgage assistance for qualifying faculty who want to live near campus, but this is not a substantial benefit--and it's to offset the high cost of living area. These are paltry perks compared to bonuses etc. that similarly qualified professionals receive outside academia. Colleges are definitely not overspending on faculty salaries and perks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will never restart payments. The wait has been too long. Once people are used to something (in this case not paying) they will never be able to resume it. It’s a political nightmare. Look at all the Central Americans who have had their TPS renewed every two years for more than 25 years based on a hurricane that occurred in the last 90s. And these are actual citizens. Payment resumption will never happen.

From your mouth to Gods ears. If I have to restart the $700/m payment with the inflation that has occurred in the interim I will be flat broke. If I can eke out another 3 years I can make it to PSLF

You should have been paying on them all along. Time for a second job.

I think the break was put in place for a reason- but why in earth wouldn’t borrowers have at least been putting some money aside during this time? Like not the equivalent of the entire payment ($700 in PP’s case) but something g to lessen the blow when payments resumed? Did everyone just think they never would?

I think the political blowback of restart/don’t restart is tough either way, and it’s not like the current administration initiated the freeze. I think the most likely case is sone middle ground- lower interest payments and/or a phase in of payment amounts.

Trump wins next election in a landslide if Biden resumes payments right before this recession. He will be viewed as the Democrat GWB especially after bailing out Silicon Valley tech and NYC crypto.

Also if the Supreme Court rescinds his formal student loan forgiveness program, this is a back door to give borrowers even more…i agree the longer this goes on the less likely it will be that payments ever resume. Republicans will be mad but they weren’t voting for Biden anyway.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t paid attention because my loans are paid off but wholly crap 3 years without payments? I consolidated my loans with Navient and had a7% rate in 1999! That was a good rate back then. Having loans set me so far behind my peers without loans. I needed them for school though so I guess it worked out? I’m in public service and by the time loan forgiveness was enacted it was too late for me. Bums me out but life isn’t fair- really isn’t. I’d support wiping out loans if itcould reset the cost of education— I’m all for it…. But it won’t…