student loans...what will happen when payments start

[Anonymous]

Please don't tell me most of you whiners about student loan debt are the same people in the college threads boasting how Larla is majoring in gender studies or bragging how Larlo got into a SLAC to study psychology. Tired of bailing out poor decision makers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

My only word of caution here is that for some majors, you need to plan carefully to make CC work for you so that you're not spending extra years to finish the degree. I'm thinking of some STEM majors in particular. And make sure the classes you take at CC will prepare you to take advanced classes when you transfer- sometimes they are less rigorous, so easy A now but makes your life harder later on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the writing is on the wall. The bank bailout will worsen inflation, and student loan relief will make it worse so it's a no go. Hopefully the new repayment plan they're rolling out will help borrowers otherwise we're going to see a lot of defaults. 3 years of no payments and I can guarantee you the majority of people haven't used this time to pay down their debt.

Of course people have not been paying down debt that is not due.

I know, but it was a great opportunity to hit principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

You don’t spend an extra year in school. You actually spend way less. Many of these insanely qualified kids (like mine) are graduating high school essentially as a mid year sophomore in college. If my son were to transfer to NVCC he would need one very very very light year in CC to transfer guest teed admissions to any school in Virginia. Though my son has some acceptances in and we are navigating the merit/scholarship portion now, NVCC to UVA is not off the table because he’s a “young” high school graduate (turns 18 in June) and would only have to take 18 credits at NVCC next year to get his required associates. This is all thanks to his heavy load of APs and DEs for which he has so far earned As and/or 5s on his exams.

HOWEVER the mindset here is F*caked and CC seen as inferior. Just as a PP said with her works of “caution” of the rigors of CC. Give me a god damn break. Nobody is getting an amazing rigorous experience in gen Ed’s at a gigantic university with 200 other class mates in a lecture hall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

You don’t spend an extra year in school. You actually spend way less. Many of these insanely qualified kids (like mine) are graduating high school essentially as a mid year sophomore in college. If my son were to transfer to NVCC he would need one very very very light year in CC to transfer guest teed admissions to any school in Virginia. Though my son has some acceptances in and we are navigating the merit/scholarship portion now, NVCC to UVA is not off the table because he’s a “young” high school graduate (turns 18 in June) and would only have to take 18 credits at NVCC next year to get his required associates. This is all thanks to his heavy load of APs and DEs for which he has so far earned As and/or 5s on his exams.

HOWEVER the mindset here is F*caked and CC seen as inferior. Just as a PP said with her works of “caution” of the rigors of CC. Give me a god damn break. Nobody is getting an amazing rigorous experience in gen Ed’s at a gigantic university with 200 other class mates in a lecture hall.

AP and IB credits don't count towards the CC credits that you need for a guaranteed transfer. They end up not counting for much at all since you're taking the same classes that that you would get credit for at the CC

https://admission.virginia.edu/sites/admission/files/2020-09/VCCS%20UVA%20Transfer%20Agreement%20Enginering.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

Lolol! It is not difficult at all. There is literally a matrix you follow for the guaranteed admissions process. If you are smart and your kid is taking DE and AP in high school you choose wisely and make sure the matrix aligns even then so you don’t lose a single FREE credit you get in high school. If your kid is taking APs and DEs you are stupid to throw away an a entire year or more of college credits by not paying attention. Go make an appointment at nova, talk to a counselor and choose wisely.

Even if your kid doesn’t do the CC route at least they have picked classes in high school that could have left that door open and given your kid a free year or more in college.

We make well over 500k and are full pay, but my kid has his heart set on UVA and this very well might be our path to get there sicne the admission process has become so bonkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

Where can a student get a comparable degree that opens comparable doors for both employment and grad school without those bells and whistles? I think most cost conscious families would be all over it, it just doesn't exist.

Community college -> UMD, VT, UVa or W&M opens the same doors. If your child is capable of getting into one of those as a freshman but only can’t afford it, they’d ace CC.

So they only have to subsidized the gyms/snack bars/bands... for two year (probably 3 given the difficulty of getting transfer credits that perfectly align with major requirements). CC to UVA/VT is a great way to get into a flagship, but it's not necessarily saving much money of you end up having to spend an extra year in school.

Lolol! It is not difficult at all. There is literally a matrix you follow for the guaranteed admissions process. If you are smart and your kid is taking DE and AP in high school you choose wisely and make sure the matrix aligns even then so you don’t lose a single FREE credit you get in high school. If your kid is taking APs and DEs you are stupid to throw away an a entire year or more of college credits by not paying attention. Go make an appointment at nova, talk to a counselor and choose wisely.

Even if your kid doesn’t do the CC route at least they have picked classes in high school that could have left that door open and given your kid a free year or more in college.

We make well over 500k and are full pay, but my kid has his heart set on UVA and this very well might be our path to get there sicne the admission process has become so bonkers.

DE counts towards the CC credits that you need to transfer, AP doesn't. AP may get you out of gen ed requirements, but the kid is probably taking similar classes at CC anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

I had no idea that tuition at UVA/VT/W&M were $40k a year. So I googled it and found out you are lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

I had no idea that tuition at UVA/VT/W&M were $40k a year. So I googled it and found out you are lying.

The cost to attend W&M this year for an in-state student is $37,500 (tuition, room & board, required fees).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a rising senior and just finished the frantic, competitive and absolutely bananas 2023 admissions process I see no point of any sort of bail out until the system is fixed. We bail people out now when all we have is wave after wave of people taking out huge loans? What’s the point?

I’m UMC and I constantly hear people talking about how their kids will need to share in the cost. I see people on here who say the same thing. This is not just a lower income issue for families, but MC and UMC people have kids who are and will be saddled with crushing debt. There is very little opportunities for state schools and people turn their nose up at the ones that are not top in state public rankings. As a Virginia resident I’m astounded by how many rejections JMU has sent out for incredibly qualified candidates. Very few families are full pay. We’ve done many college tours and these schools are all building amazing buildings that are architectural beauties, incredible dorms (some with roof top Vegas style party pools), resort like amenities. As a German who immigrated here decades ago and who has nieces and nephews back in Germany I can tell you that the American college experience is a flamboyant display of institutional wealth. If people were so worried about crippling debt then why are so many still lining up to take so much on? We need a more robust community college system and we need a massive national mindset shift of how this entire admission process is viewed. You can’t have it all. And before you start screeching about Germany, not everyone in Germany has a god given right to nearly free college. Spaces are limited. Areas of study are narrow. Your chances of going to college is largely determined in high school based on test scores and academic tracking.

Preach. The gyms open for 18 hours a day, snack bars open until 2 am, bands coming to campus, etc. etc. Students are underwriting their own experiences and many of the things they are paying for are probably not benefitting them from a purely educational standpoint. Our admissions system is totally broken and our college systems are totally broken. I wouldn't count on it changing soon though. When I was applying to college in 2005 it seemed bananas and 18 years later it has only gotten worse.

This. It is ridiculous how fancy some of the college dorms are. When I went to college I chose the cheapest on campus option freshman year (on campus living was required for freshman) and got off campus ASAP. In some cities that would still be expensive. I think gyms being open for long hours makes sense, but bringing bands to campus? I sincerely hope tuition dollars aren't paying for that. I sometimes suspect colleges are trying to attract students with "bells and whistles" which makes zero sense since that isn't the point of college. I guess if people let their kids make decisions based on things like that maybe they deserve the loans? OTOH it seems many/most/all colleges do this to some extent so then there are no good educational options for people who are more budget minded/have financial constraints. So what do you do? Maybe parents can demand colleges share the amount of budget spent on faculty salaries, facilities, "experiences" like bands, and whatever else colleges spend tuition money on.

Demand all you want - as long as college admissions remains as competitive as it has been, the answer is going to be, "No. If that troubles you, feel free not to apply here. Next!"

I can't believe how foolish you all sound saying parents and students are demanding gyms so tuition must go up! These universities have mastered grifting off the student loan spigot. They buy up huge swaths of land (GW even owns a ton of DC land) and spend a little on a gym that is brought up at the tour but doesn't sway your desperate HS junior. The rest of the hundreds of millions go to administration buildings and faculty as well as benefits such as faculty/administration free housing and forgiveable loans. Student debtors are just a symptom of a parasitic system that no one will fix because universities send some money back to politicians and even offer them faculty positions.

I don't blame the private schools at all. I do blame the Virginia public schools. Somehow Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina... can make their schools virtually free in state but UVA/VT/W&M all think 40k a year is acceptable

I had no idea that tuition at UVA/VT/W&M were $40k a year. So I googled it and found out you are lying.

The cost to attend W&M this year for an in-state student is $37,500 (tuition, room & board, required fees).

If you want to include room and board, then the other schools are not "virtually free." UNC is $26,118.

[Anonymous]

College tuition is the most expensive in blue Northeast states.