23 Baltimore City Schools Have Zero Students Proficient in Math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to realize is that schools have ALWAYS been this way, and it's only just since No Child Left Behind that people knew it. That's why the policy came to pass. Just think of your grandparents generation though too--how many of them had a 4th-8th grade education only? Not to mention how kids with special needs were "educated." The idea of universal public high school for everyone is a relatively new one, we've only recently started measuring how effective it is and it's never been easy. Very few countries educate everyone.

I've said it before but the German model exists for a reason

For roughly 1/3 of the population a typical high school education makes 0 sense. Instead of trying to get these kids through Algebra and Chemistry high school should be a jobs program so these kids can have a productive future

College for all makes 0 sense.

Isn’t college for all based on the incredibly simplistic observation that college grads make more money, ergo everyone should be college educated, ergo the government should provide easy money for college tuition. Is / was that a D, R, or combined policy position?

Unfortunately, now that there are tons of college grads, every job “requires” a college education, even though most jobs don’t really NEED a college education (most don’t). Further, this policy didn’t cause wages to go up, but all that “easy” money is now weighing down the generation that borrowed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to realize is that schools have ALWAYS been this way, and it's only just since No Child Left Behind that people knew it. That's why the policy came to pass. Just think of your grandparents generation though too--how many of them had a 4th-8th grade education only? Not to mention how kids with special needs were "educated." The idea of universal public high school for everyone is a relatively new one, we've only recently started measuring how effective it is and it's never been easy. Very few countries educate everyone.

I've said it before but the German model exists for a reason

For roughly 1/3 of the population a typical high school education makes 0 sense. Instead of trying to get these kids through Algebra and Chemistry high school should be a jobs program so these kids can have a productive future

College for all makes 0 sense.

I agree, except I think it shouldn't be test-based like the German system. Tests might be used to inform people who is likely to succeed in different settings, but let people choose what they want and make it flexible to switch. The problem with Germany is that poor test-takers, non-native speakers or late bloomers get tracked away from higher ed even if they have the intelligence and drive for it. Conversely, wanting to go vocational shouldn't be viewed as a result not testing into the "better" option--rather just being a person who wants to get to working quickly, is a bit tired of school or never was that academically oriented.

I would love it if we had life long access to affordable higher education and could earn credits towards it being financed through work. The same person who was not that into school, might be after 10 years in the working world with a clearer idea of their goals and how they align with school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing to realize is that schools have ALWAYS been this way, and it's only just since No Child Left Behind that people knew it. That's why the policy came to pass. Just think of your grandparents generation though too--how many of them had a 4th-8th grade education only? Not to mention how kids with special needs were "educated." The idea of universal public high school for everyone is a relatively new one, we've only recently started measuring how effective it is and it's never been easy. Very few countries educate everyone.

I've said it before but the German model exists for a reason

For roughly 1/3 of the population a typical high school education makes 0 sense. Instead of trying to get these kids through Algebra and Chemistry high school should be a jobs program so these kids can have a productive future

College for all makes 0 sense.

Isn’t college for all based on the incredibly simplistic observation that college grads make more money, ergo everyone should be college educated, ergo the government should provide easy money for college tuition. Is / was that a D, R, or combined policy position?

Unfortunately, now that there are tons of college grads, every job “requires” a college education, even though most jobs don’t really NEED a college education (most don’t). Further, this policy didn’t cause wages to go up, but all that “easy” money is now weighing down the generation that borrowed it.

College for all was pushed by the Obama administration pretty hard.

Plenty of jobs don't require a college degree and I agree more shouldn't require one but do.

For people in the lower 1/3 of IQ traditional high school and definitely college are a waste of time and resources. The Germans understand this and our education system should reflect theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One solution might be to have schools separated out by how students score on these tests. Put all the failing students together and then start with the very basics. Teach them to read. Provide intensive services at that school and give the teachers specialty pay for teaching in those schools. Smaller classes too. Keeping kids who can’t read on the standard curriculum and just presenting they can is not helpful to them. Decades ago someone came up with teach for America as a sort of peace corp for inner city schools. It was hugely popular and fairly prestigious for a while. It was criticized (often with good reason) but we need some kind of similar solution now — a way to convince people that this is important community service and yes it will be hard but your country will be grateful. Now it’s like “yeah, we’ll give you an impossible and often dangerous job and we will absolutely call you lazy and criticize you when you fail. And the pay is not great and the hours are totally not flexible with a super early start time. Please apply!”

Your solution is known as “tracking” or “ability grouping.” It is a common sense approach, and crucially needed in school systems such as Baltimore city schools.

Democrats have vehemently opposed any type of tracking or ability grouping. For decades, democrats have worked to dismantle any separation by ability. Notably (though not the only example) democrat Bill DeBlasio specifically terminated the entire gifted and talented program in NYC schools, in order to stop the possibility of “tracking.”

If you are opposed to what is happening in Baltimore, stop voting for democrats.

Yeah, vote for Republicans who want to dismantle public education and have our tax dollars pay for their private religious schools. Nope! Sorry.

If public monies go to a private school, it's no longer a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's another question I think is pretty tricky for a kid in third grade.

I mean, I get that you are supposed to look at the number lines and find the point that is at the same spot on both. But if a kid didn't understand that, would you say he just doesn't "get" fractions at all, at a basic third grade level?

If I student did get this correct, I wouldn't say they can understand fractions. This seems like an awfully designed question. You can get this correct just by noticing the dot is in the same place, which doesn't require looking at the notches at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part is out if every class of around 20 at those schools there are at least 4-5 kids who are motivated, sharp, and their parents care. They don’t get any attention because the lowest most disruptive kids are ruining the education of everyone on the class. Those 4-5 kids should be grouped together but every teacher would want to teach those kids and it makes it harder for teachers who only have low, chronically absent and/or disruptive students. There is no reason why schools should have 0 kids proficient in math. I really wish their were more programs available for the best and brightest in those schools.

This is what charter schools are good at —taking the 4-5 kids who have parents who care and consolidating them in one school.
But I think this is all a bit overstated because the test itself sucks. Our school is mostly children of doctors, lawyers and research scientists and many still aren’t hitting profiency. Yes, even these kids slipped during the pandemic, but in large part it’s a test problem. The questions are convoluted and don’t track well with the curriculum.

Who makes the tests, and who makes the curriculum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. 23 schools have zero students proficient in math.

https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-state-test-results-reveal-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-department-of-education-statistics-school-failures

2. Teachers can earn more than $90K after a few years in the classroom.

https://teachbaltimorecity.org/your-career/salary-and-benefits

3. Baltimore City is the fourth highest funded large school system in the country.

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-spending-per-student-2022-enrollment-performance-kirwan-new-york-boston-washington

I don’t see how this city can be saved. If you think otherwise, why?

The teachers are not the problem and you know it.

Contrary to the fable, nobody can spin straw into gold.

OP never said teachers are the problem, but all the money being spent in Baltimore hasn't worked.

Because you can’t substitute bad parenting and no varying of education at home by throwing money at schools and teachers.

Right, this is why it's disingenuous for teacher's unions to demand higher salaries when they know the best way to spend money is on things like free daycare, wraparound support for early childhood, disability screening, subsidized/free prek, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charm City native here. Baltimore has generally been this way for decades. The primary reason for public failure is because there are so many great, relatively affordable privates with decent financial aid and solid college lists. Would you ever send your child to a school with 0 math proficiency? Any parent who is even remotely willing or able get their kids out. The ones who are left are not only in a failing situation in every way, they don’t even get the benefit of more motivated peer and/or parents in their community

This is actually good news, because it means there are plenty of kids getting the education they deserve. I bet if some other districts had all their halfway-concerned parents leave for private school, they'd achieve similarly bad results

[Anonymous]

In these 23 schools, virtually none of the students will complete a 4-year university degree.

Isn’t it time Baltimore city create far more trade school opportunities?

Our country used to offer trade schools, usually called “vocational technology” or VoTech schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last one, now that I have learned to post pictures. These are all from the MD state released items/practice test 3rd grade Math test:



I think it is tricky, for a third grader. Yes, of course, I think it would be wonderful for all third graders to be able to answer a question like this that shows they are truly able to understand the application of math. Instead of just asking a simple question: "What is the area of this rectangle?"

But - the fact that many students aren't able to answer questions like this doesn't mean they are learning nothing in math. Just that these questions are pretty tricky for them to understand.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of these word problems were made because of allegations from marxists that math is somehow racist against black people - that they can't understand abstract concepts (which is in itself an extremely racist viewpoint but one pushed by many black civil rights advocates). But of course they will understand things like "tyrone has five mixtapes and lost two" or "uncle jim is painting a garage." It is, however, ironic that the black kids in baltimore schools cannot even answer the contextualized questions that the education marxists have forced into the curriculum

Dude, you need to brush up on your Marxism before you open your mouth. Karl Marx did not give a crap about math - or its influence on black people. Geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fox News logic never ceases to amaze me. Baltimore can barely attract teachers to stay more than a couple years as-is, but hey, let’s insinuate that we believe they’re overpaid!

+1

Republicans don't care about our schools; they only want to fearmonger.

Sit TF down, OP.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The Tolerant Left

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:zero might not be an indication of failure and might be an indication of protest. Just saying.

It also might be related to a problem with data reporting, or with decisions to delay or skip testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charm City native here. Baltimore has generally been this way for decades. The primary reason for public failure is because there are so many great, relatively affordable privates with decent financial aid and solid college lists. Would you ever send your child to a school with 0 math proficiency? Any parent who is even remotely willing or able get their kids out. The ones who are left are not only in a failing situation in every way, they don’t even get the benefit of more motivated peer and/or parents in their community

If all these good schools magically closed, I highly doubt it would help the kids in piblics. And the kids in privates aren’t there to help their failing peers really; they need to learn too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll agree that in some cases their illiteracy might be affecting their math scores, but there’s more to math than just doing very simple calculations.

And come on, if a kid doesn’t know what the word “space” means in third grade then there’s a big problem. What the heck are the teachers doing all day in class that the majority of a third grade class doesn’t know that “space” means area?

And I certainly didn’t have any computers reading questions to me in school tests. It’s wild that you think the problem here is that the computer voice reading the math questions is not quite natural enough for you. Next you’ll be complaining about its accent or lack thereof.

I mean, yes, that's exactly what I am saying - kids do not understand these questions. Yes, it is a big problem.

Many of the third graders do not have the language skills to understand that "which equation represents the amount of space that Mr Soto will paint" = what is the area of the rectangle. That's just one example- I'm not picking on this particular sample problem necessarily, just explaining that the sentence structure and vocabulary is deliberately not straightforward. It's an attempt to be sure that students aren't just mindlesslessy calculating area by rote but are able to actually apply the concept of "area" in a real life problem. I get that attempt and approach but am telling you, it is too hard for many third graders, at least those who start off the school year not even able to read.

The computer voice - what can I tell you? I watch kids take these tests. They are allowed to replay the read aloud feature as often as they want. In schools where many kids are reading below grade level, they really can't read many of these words by themselves. "equation" "represents" (even "which" some of them can't sound out.).

I can imagine you saying "Wow -- if kids can't read the word "which" we have a big problem." Yes. Yes, there is a big problem.

IF kids have a tough time with a math problem, they are supposed to go back and read the question to think about what the question is really asking. If they can read all but one hard word, then it is no big deal, but if they can read hardly any of the words? They have to go back and start the whole thing again. Skimming on your own takes a couple seconds, but restarting the entire question (the test only lets you play back the whole question, not just one word) takes extra time. Kids get tired. A few kids who are poor readers will plod through and take that extra time but most just aren't that dedicated because the test really has no consequences for them.

I'm just saying that in MD, and in the US in general, I think that our math curriculum, and tests, are unnecessarily verbally based, and I don't think it is leading us to have better math outcomes.

I am trying to find examples of what I am talking about, and I can't find it for third grade at the moment, but here is an interesting comparison of first grade math tests in NY and Finland that kind of gets at what I am talking about:


https://taughtbyfinland.com/first-grade-math-tests-in-american-and-finnish-classrooms/

This was done to help girls...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Baltimore city schools are a great example of what happens when you let democrats hold the reins for extended period of time. The same results will eventually be mirrored nation wide. More money for less results

Remind me which states are ranked as the worst for education by pretty much every metric.

Speak the unspeakable and look at results by demographics.