So tired of the crappy housing stock in the DMV combined with skyrocketing prices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

[Anonymous]

Why can't I just be happy with my cute-as-a-button tiny cape cod?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

Yes I live in NYC and grew up around DC. I see what you mean but kind of depends on the specific town, though? There are nice ones as you describe but also a lot of run of the mill ones. “Northeast” covers a large area and a lot of it still just looks like suburbs to me…

Yes, of course there are some ugly suburbs in the northeast for sure. The difference to me is that there are also lots of very very nice ones. The DMV has literally none. There are some pockets of beautiful parts in Chevy Chase, Potomac, and Great Falls, but they are surrounded by sprawl and lack community. Just look at all the threads here of people moving to the DMV looking for a nice town. There are none. Even the south is better with their big homogenous developments.

Great Falls doesn't lack community. It's spread out, but there are a bazillion community events (that are very well attended). Join GFS&T or Riverbend and there a bazillion more events. There are local kids leagues in pretty much every sport. And you literally can't go anywhere without running into friends. Perhaps there is a different definition of community that I am missing, but to us the community feel is one of the highlights of living here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

Omg what? That’s hideous lmao

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

And the fact is that in MANY parts of the country, MOST of the housing stock in the suburbs is NOT ugly postwar housing. In MOST parts of the Northeast, MOST of the housing stock is not only NOT ugly postwar housing; it is also organized around a bona fide town center.

Haha, darn, you are such a persistent troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is even if you had lots of money to buy a beautiful home outside of DC, these historic style homes found in Baltimore are few and far between in the DC suburbs. Sounds like people are frustrated by the style of the homes and the quality of builder materials in this area. Baltimore is used as comparison bewcause it’s close by and provides an example of tastefully done renovations (not all of them but there are plenty)

I lived in Baltimore for many years. Homewood and Guilford and Roland Park are nice and have some beautiful houses, although many on the fringes are run down. That said the vast majority of Baltimore is an ugly cesspool. And the suburbs are standard suburbia, same as here, outside of a few areas between the city and beltway in the north.

[Anonymous]

I'm so confused by this thread. I travel frequently to Long Island and Boston. There is plenty of ugly housing stock as well as "strip mall hell" in Long Island (Nassau County specifically). I definitely don't find it more attractive then here overall.

Boston has a lot of beautiful houses but overall the housing stock is extremely old and run down. The houses are tiny, have no basements and run on oil heat. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

lol what

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused by this thread. I travel frequently to Long Island and Boston. There is plenty of ugly housing stock as well as "strip mall hell" in Long Island (Nassau County specifically). I definitely don't find it more attractive then here overall.

Boston has a lot of beautiful houses but overall the housing stock is extremely old and run down. The houses are tiny, have no basements and run on oil heat. No thanks.

And a lot of the Boston suburbs is ugly as hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

lol what

Seriously. There are plenty to refute PP's point, but that particularly one is not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

Agree that it has potential but I think your estimate is low and almost nothing built in the 70s has character. Siding on three sides, garage facing the street and low ceilings alone are expensive. So I think it’s a fine DMV house given the choices, but still doesn’t fall into the category some of us are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't I just be happy with my cute-as-a-button tiny cape cod?

You can be! I’m an admitted house snob and I love some of them! It depends on the design, quality, and curb appeal which varies quite a bit here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Check this out, with 150k worth of changes this can be nice.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/McLean/1207-Winter-Hunt-Rd-22102/home/9377282

Agree that it has potential but I think your estimate is low and almost nothing built in the 70s has character. Siding on three sides, garage facing the street and low ceilings alone are expensive. So I think it’s a fine DMV house given the choices, but still doesn’t fall into the category some of us are talking about.

Yeah that house is actually a pretty good example of the problem OP was complaining about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wow, most of DCUM is bad, but this thread really sets a new low for self-indulgent self-pitying.

DC was a relatively small city/metro area until the Depression (ie, wasn't one of the 15 largest cities in the country until the New Deal and WWII mobilization). So much of the housing here was built either during the Depression and WWII (when resources were scarce and the clientele was middle class govt workers) or after the war. And the fact is MOST postwar suburban housing in the US (please don't tell me about Brad Pitt's mansion in Malibu...) is pretty drab. Honestly, people here are are pining for NY but some of the dated 1960s housing stock in the lesser parts of Westchester and Long Island and NJ looks locations for a bad Mad Men spinoff (although i will admit the NJ housing in the Sopranos was incredibly classy). Do people move to the San Fernando Valley or Lakewood for the charming architecture? I'm not sure why the OP so dislikes split levels - they're actually efficiently designed, and mid-century design has been in vogue for about a decade -- but they're pretty commonplace across the nation.

Yes, you can look at prewar suburbs in one-percenter suburbs like Bronxville or Oyster Bay or the Upper Merion and say "why don't houses in Chantilly have the same charm - that's so unfair to me!" but it's a completely inapt comparison. If you look at DC's prewar luxury homes in Forest Hills or Foxhall or Chevy Chase Village, you'll see comparable houses.

Whining that one's dollar can buy so much more in Baltimore or Shady Side or Shaker Heights or Grosse Pointe than in DC is just silly. Obviously prices are depressed there because of economic or other challenges (yeah, I want the housing costs of metro Cleveland but the professional and cultural offerings of greater DC too -- pls make it happen). Furthermore, comparing the sales prices alone isn't useful because those lower-priced old suburbs generally have much higher property tax rates to provide the services that their residents expect (notwithstanding lower home values).

Ironically, many people who come to DC find that the original prewar housing stock -- the 19th century townhouses of the original city, the 20th century row houses in the outlying parts of the city -- to be not just charming but distinctive. I thought it was a triusm that all taste is subjective, but apparently not on DCUM.

Real estate everywhere involves trade offs, including location, size, age and that ineffable category of charm/appeal. OP thinks they (or all DMV residents) are uniquely vexed in facing that tradeoff -- they're not.

+1 I can’t imagine people moving away from the DMV and telling their friends it was because they couldn’t find an attractive looking house and that the whole region is hideous.

Unless you have a $3 million plus budget, it really is hard to find curb appeal and character here. Lots in DC proper, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and a few homes on the VA side in that range but if you’re looking outside DC for under that, it’s slim pickings. Lots of drab, cheap builds in the style of the moment from every decade.

This sounds like a very extreme point of view

I challenge you to find good design, curb appeal, and character for under $3 million in the suburbs. There are just a few.

Here are some random selections that sold in the last 6 months:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5309-Blackistone-Rd-Bethesda-MD-20816/37175556_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/43-W-Lenox-St-Chevy-Chase-MD-20815/37199313_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3400-Cummings-Ln-Chevy-Chase-MD-20815/37181690_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3206-Rolling-Rd-Chevy-Chase-MD-20815/37174060_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7311-Baltimore-Ave-Takoma-Park-MD-20912/37284424_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7300-Holly-Ave-Takoma-Park-MD-20912/37284749_zpid/?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4520-32nd-Rd-N-Arlington-VA-22207/12060866_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10610-Wise-Owl-Way-Great-Falls-VA-22066/51699903_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1508-Hardwood-Ln-McLean-VA-22101/51759027_zpid/


I could go on. I literally just clicked on ones for a couple of minutes. If you have 3mm, you can get a beautiful house around here in the suburbs, with plenty of land, and easy access to a city with great jobs and great cultural amenities. If you think the the Main Line, or Shaker Heights, is superior, you are a philistine. Sorry.