If teachers are leaving left and right, is it the principal's fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they paid me $20k more I’d stay regardless of the nonsense. Instead I’m leaving after winter break for a job that pays DOUBLE my teaching salary.

I can put up with crap if I’m compensated. But I never will be as a teacher.

What’s your new job? I need to start looking.

+100
I would love to get a group of dedicated, good teachers together and open a private school. I love teaching kids who want to learn. I have had it with the extraneous nonsense and behavioral issues.

I hear BASIS McLean has a lot of openings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

I would quit teaching immediately if that was the feedback I got.

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

I'm a parent and I don't think this at all - I think the concept of inclusivity has gone too far and I think that this litigious society has gone too far. FCPS is scared of parents suing them, so they don't allow consequences for bad behavior. In fact, at our school, the poorly behaved kids get rewarded with lunch bunch and playtime in the principal's office or conference room. When I was a kid, if a child behaved poorly, they went straight to the principal's office where they sat on a chair doing nothing until their parents picked them up. Kids were suspended for things like repeatedly pulling a girl's hair, hitting her arm, pushing her down in line, calling her nasty names. Now a victim of repeated bullying just gets gaslit and told "it's not a big deal, it's just your hair/arm/back" and they switch seats while the teacher (who is both witnessing and the victim herself has to leave the classroom to go cry in the hallway for a couple minutes). We KNOW it's not the teacher's fault, and I've expressed frustration to the administration and even FCPS administration, but no consequences other than switched seats and a child scared to go to school every day, and a teacher who probably won't return next year, and I don't blame her one bit.

Wow - you have totally nailed it. I'm a teacher and definitely can relate to this entire post (especially the bolded. This happens too often.). It's disgraceful what admin expects teachers to put up with now. Glad to hear that you, as a parent, understand what's going on.

]]

I'm so sorry you are going through this, too, please know that many of us understand and empathize with the situation you're in. You are between a rock and a hard place, as they say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

NP but I think those jobs are few and far between. If a teacher is in a job like this, they're not leaving. There aren't openings. Especially for new teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

I'm the PP and indeed, this is occurring in the low-income (but not Title 1) elementary school where I currently teach. I would give anything to teach in a higher income school where parents are involved and kids (for the most part) are so much better behaved. I don't care what that sounds like, either. I've devoted years to this low-income school and am done. They've taken enough of me and I deserve a job in which I'm not in tears by the end of each day and dreading the next day to come. My friends who teach in higher income schools tell me it's like night and day. I plan on looking for a job in one of those schools and seeing if the experience is any better. I don't want to just walk away from teaching, but I will walk away from this school as soon as I possibly can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

I just popped on this thread and read the last 10 posts. Oh my goodness! Teachers, I feel so bad fir you that you are desling with this kind of hell. Damn. No one wants to work under those kinds of circumstances. It makes me very angry that good teachers are being run out of the profession.

Question: instead of leaving teaching altogether, would your job change for the better if you moved to a different/higher income school? I ask b/c my kids (HS) do not see that kind of disruption and disrespect in their classes at one of the HS that has a smaller number of needy kids. I know that in the HS where we used to live (also FCPS, but more diverse), I heard multiple reports that you MUST avoid the reg level classes b/c the the majority of kids in them don't want to learn, and they literally harass and terrorize the teachers. In some cases, running multiple teachers out by xmas break. So, my impression is that the job can vary significantly in different high schools.

Could you change schools and stay in the profession?

20:29 here. I'm at a "higher income" school. More than 90% of the students have no fee waiver for lunches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

Are chimes the latest fad? When I was teaching it was behavior contracts. You had to write out a document with a list of things the student would agree to do, and then have them sign it. Like signing a document saying they wouldn't stand up and start dancing on their chair in the middle of class was actually going to have any effect on a student who would do that in the first place. And it didn't. But it wasted a whole lot of your time writing that thing up.

For us the chime is part of being a responsive classroom school.

Same.
Theoretically the students are supposed to stop what they are doing and listen to the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they paid me $20k more I’d stay regardless of the nonsense. Instead I’m leaving after winter break for a job that pays DOUBLE my teaching salary.

I can put up with crap if I’m compensated. But I never will be as a teacher.

What’s your new job? I need to start looking.

+100
I would love to get a group of dedicated, good teachers together and open a private school. I love teaching kids who want to learn. I have had it with the extraneous nonsense and behavioral issues.

I hear BASIS McLean has a lot of openings.

Great, I’m sure the teachers fed up with public school will be happy to go work for this place for $50,000 a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they paid me $20k more I’d stay regardless of the nonsense. Instead I’m leaving after winter break for a job that pays DOUBLE my teaching salary.

I can put up with crap if I’m compensated. But I never will be as a teacher.

What’s your new job? I need to start looking.

+100
I would love to get a group of dedicated, good teachers together and open a private school. I love teaching kids who want to learn. I have had it with the extraneous nonsense and behavioral issues.

I hear BASIS McLean has a lot of openings.

Great, I’m sure the teachers fed up with public school will be happy to go work for this place for $50,000 a year

+1, the kids may be better behaved, but the salary is so low that nobody can live off of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they paid me $20k more I’d stay regardless of the nonsense. Instead I’m leaving after winter break for a job that pays DOUBLE my teaching salary.

I can put up with crap if I’m compensated. But I never will be as a teacher.

What’s your new job? I need to start looking.

+100
I would love to get a group of dedicated, good teachers together and open a private school. I love teaching kids who want to learn. I have had it with the extraneous nonsense and behavioral issues.

I hear BASIS McLean has a lot of openings.

Great, I’m sure the teachers fed up with public school will be happy to go work for this place for $50,000 a year

How do you know what Basis pays?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they paid me $20k more I’d stay regardless of the nonsense. Instead I’m leaving after winter break for a job that pays DOUBLE my teaching salary.

I can put up with crap if I’m compensated. But I never will be as a teacher.

What’s your new job? I need to start looking.

+100
I would love to get a group of dedicated, good teachers together and open a private school. I love teaching kids who want to learn. I have had it with the extraneous nonsense and behavioral issues.

I hear BASIS McLean has a lot of openings.

Great, I’m sure the teachers fed up with public school will be happy to go work for this place for $50,000 a year

How do you know what Basis pays?

They are listed in the job listings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge reason why public schools are failing. There are no consequences for poor behavior. I think class sizes play a role as well as staffing. We have full grade levels struggling due to the behavior of 5-8 kids. We have parents asking teachers how to parent their kids. It is a mess.

I think a lot of kids misbehave at school because they know they can get away with crap there that they wouldn’t at home. Teachers ‘ ability to deliver meaningful consequences has been stripped from teachers, and school administrators who are more interested in playing politician than in acknowledging their “in loco parentis” responsibilities, are doing little because they prioritize their own self-interest over the community for which they work.

THIS ^^. I'm one of the PPs who wound up quitting due to the horrendous behavior of some of my students. The principal and assistant principal looked at me like I had four heads when I brought the situation to their attention (they already knew about it, but continued to gaslight as if it was my fault). They refused to call the parents because they clearly didn't want the hassle of having to deal with them. I'm looking into teaching a private school, where kids troublemakers are not tolerated and teachers are supported.

There is so much gaslighting in education at every level. This is why teachers are done. Oh and the toxic positivity-nonsense.

what does that mean?

DP. Where I teach, it means something along the lines of "He wouldn't be failing/ refusing to come to school/ initiating fights with classmates/ calling you a f****** b**** if you tried a little harder to build a relationship and made your lesson plans more engaging. We know it's Thanksgiving Break but here's some PD to teach you how to do this more effectively!! Please remember to take time to connect with those around you and enjoy your time off!"

that makes absolutely no sense. you mean that's the messaging parents give you as a teacher???

DP. That makes perfect sense. This is the message teachers are given by both the parents and the administration - "It's YOUR fault if your students aren't engaged. It's YOUR fault if they're acting up and disrupting the class. What can YOU do to make this child behave better?" The PP nailed it.

DP, but I could have been the PP and written that post. Not only have I been told that I need to have a plan to support the disruptive students, but I also need to have and communicate my plans to support the students who are most affected (or have parents who are most vocal) by the disruptive students. Apparently if I set expectations, am consistent and model expected behaviors the disruptive students will behave appropriately. When they don’t it must be because I’m not doing these things. I also need to make sure I know what all of the students are doing, 100% of the time, which is tough to manage when so much time is spent working with small groups.

In my decades of teaching for FCPS I never had difficulty managing a class until just a few years ago (still pre-pandemic). I rarely needed to refer to the administrators, but when I did you could be sure I needed assistance. I’ve stopped doing that. It just creates too much trouble for me and draws the spotlight of criticism. Almost the entire day is disrupted in some way by outbursts, side conversations, arguments or students who are just off task in some way. I keep trying Responsive Classroom techniques, but if they work it is short-lived. I’ve always allowed for movement and I never have expected a silent classroom, but something has changed and each day is very difficult.

Exactly this. When I spoke to admin, they asked if I was using the chimes to quiet down the class. The f-ing chimes??!!? Sure, I use the chimes - and the kids completely ignore them. They.do.not.care. My voice is constantly hoarse from having to yell just to be heard - and I am not a yeller. If I'm trying to work with small groups, inevitably the troublemakers make it impossible for me to devote any time at all to the few kids who just want to learn and need my help. I'm constantly putting out metaphorical fires - spats between kids that are absurd - when I could be actually teaching them something. And apparently, all this bad behavior is my fault. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves. No doubt I'll be joining them if I can make it through this year.

Oh wow. This is my experience, 100%, down to the chime.

I’m retiring from full time teaching a few years earlier than I had planned.

+1000
That freaking chime! As if it’s the answer to all problems. My God, the administration has become the biggest idiots. The only thing the chimes could be useful for is summoning the principal to come and haul the trouble makers out of the classroom so the rest of the kids might actually have a chance to learn.