Bike lanes violate disability access laws, new lawsuit says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

When I'm rushing to get to work or school and some generic bike man is trying to beat me on his bike in a bikeathon costume and I'm trying to maneuver, I don't have the time to review some list of a billion "---itility" words and figure out what O-O-D-A stands for. How about get Out Of my Dam- Avenue?

[Anonymous]

OP sort of got this wrong....SOME bike lanes (ie part of the one on 17th street) *may* violate accessibility laws.

this is not an indictment of bike lanes in totality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of hostility on this thread towards disabled people.

Try being a cyclist . . .

Sorry, no, this is ridiculous. Cyclists face a fraction, at best, of the hostility that disabled people do on a regular basis. And if you don't want to face hostility as a cyclist, you can just... get off your bike.

I bicycle all over the place and commute by bike far, far more often than I drive to work, but this comparison is (a) false, (b) inappropriately dismissive of what it's like to have a disability, and (c) also completely unhelpful for the pro-bike infrastructure argument.

There's a smart way to put in bike lanes that accommodates people with mobility issues, who in theory should be better off if the streets are designed better to allow uses besides only driving in cars. D.C. can figure it out and fix it moving forward.

Good job creating a strawman. The reply was specifically responding to a post about hostility in this thread. I’ve read none directed towards people with disabilities. Whereas virtually every second post here is spreading some ridiculous nonsense about cyclists.

The post said, “try being a cyclist,” and it didn’t say anything about referring only to this thread. I didn’t create a straw man, I responded to what it appeared to be saying.

I am one of the cyclists here, and if you actually find yourself being insulted or offended by the nonsense people post here about bikes or people who ride them, you should log off. It’s all anonymous dingdongs whining. Who cares if they’re hostile to you?

Uh, did you not see the quote that “try being a cyclist” was responding to? This is not difficult.

[Anonymous]

I loathe all the entitled bikers. In my dreamworld. We get rid of all that stupid bike lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

When I'm rushing to get to work or school and some generic bike man is trying to beat me on his bike in a bikeathon costume and I'm trying to maneuver, I don't have the time to review some list of a billion "---itility" words and figure out what O-O-D-A stands for. How about get Out Of my Dam- Avenue?

If the generic bike man is going faster or about as fast as you are in your car, maybe you should think about getting out of the car and on a bike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

When I'm rushing to get to work or school and some generic bike man is trying to beat me on his bike in a bikeathon costume and I'm trying to maneuver, I don't have the time to review some list of a billion "---itility" words and figure out what O-O-D-A stands for. How about get Out Of my Dam- Avenue?

Of course you don't actively think about it but those are the steps every brain takes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

When I'm rushing to get to work or school and some generic bike man is trying to beat me on his bike in a bikeathon costume and I'm trying to maneuver, I don't have the time to review some list of a billion "---itility" words and figure out what O-O-D-A stands for. How about get Out Of my Dam- Avenue?

S/he's not racing you, just riding at likely a constant speed because that's what most cyclists do. But great on you maybe you should go check out https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmTheMainCharacter/ and get some perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 pages of angry, whining cyclists!

Look people, this could all have been avoided if DDOT just engaged with disability groups and made an effort to accommodate disability needs into the design. Instead DDOT and bike advocates in the city have been doing nothing but doing a reprise of those immature ANC commissioners giving a business the middle finger.

Cannot help but laugh at the schaedenfruede.

ddot’s designs meet the ADA standards set out in the bike design manual.

saying that DDOT refused to engage with disability groups is a serious accusation. Any support for that?

If they did make reasonable accommodations then they wouldn’t be getting sued. LMFAO.

Oh yes! The filing of a lawsuit in America is a sure sign that a grave injustice has occurred! There is no such thing at all as a frivolous lawsuit at all, is there? Let's see how long it takes for this to get tossed . . .

If you are so sure that this is a meritless lawsuit, why the 11 PAGES of angry comments about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love how this thread, which was about how the D.C. blatantly ignored the American Disabilities Act, and how bike lanes are putting disabled people in danger, has turned into a massive pity party for cyclists.

Never change, cyclists. Everything is always about you and your feelings.

Their sense of entitlement is keen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

We're not talking about the entire country. We're talking solely about the Washington Metropolitan Area and specifically upper NW DC.

[Anonymous]

Not a DC biker but LOVE the bike lanes. Wish more people would take advantage of them.

[Anonymous]

This is pretty simple and an open and shut case. Good in these folks for forcing the city to do what’s right.

“Just get in compliance with [the law], come on. This is 2022,” Simms says. “People with disabilities shouldn’t have to be groveling or genuflecting to get their rights.”
https://dcist.com/story/22/11/23/disability-groups-file-federal-lawsuit-against-d-c-over-protected-bike-lanes/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

We're not talking about the entire country. We're talking solely about the Washington Metropolitan Area and specifically upper NW DC.

Is that stretch of 17th considered Upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

US people per sq mile - 742.
Japan has 881, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.21.
UK has 723, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.81.

Anything else I can do for you? Or could you perhaps learn how to google a question before you form your misguided opinions and decide to vomit them on msg boards?

Google is so effective for those who have no critical thinking skills or understanding of statistics. But good for know about msg and vomit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

US people per sq mile - 742.
Japan has 881, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.21.
UK has 723, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.81.

Anything else I can do for you? Or could you perhaps learn how to google a question before you form your misguided opinions and decide to vomit them on msg boards?

Google is so effective for those who have no critical thinking skills or understanding of statistics. But good for know about msg and vomit!

The number of bicyclists killed this year in D.C. is approximately the same as the number of people killed by lightning which is roughly the same as the number of Washingtonians who were eaten this year by sharks.