Bike lanes violate disability access laws, new lawsuit says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

For pedestrians and bikers, those are only acheived if traffic is slowed down and visibility is increased for pedestrians.

The same rules apply to everybody and all situations. Speed above the norm, by anyone, does decrease visibility and predictability that is true. However the non-speed limit/traffic light measures being used to control that make overall safety worse by reducing visibility, predictability and flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

I love John Boyd as much as the next guy, but it’s hokey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony is that generally speaking, the proposals to add bike lanes also calm vehicular traffic, which makes both the streets and sidewalks safer and more livable for humans, including humans with disabilities.

Not really. Especially when there are many preeexisting crosswalks with stop lights. Increased volume creates blocked boxes. Removal of space eliminates the ability to swerve and deceases the margin for error. Bump outs and flexposts increase obstacles to be avoided and reduce sight lines. Different rules for different vehicles eliminate predictability. But that's just the street these things are put on. In this case the measures come with a massive increase in residential overflow traffic that makes those streets exponentially less safe.

Clear sight lines, space, predictability and traffic lights with crosswalks are the things that make things safe. When those things are decreased then it is less safe. Increasing complexity and volume whie eliminating buffers is a toxic combination.

Any support for that, at all? But love the idea that more space and "clear sight lines" slows down traffic ...

Visibility, predictability, and flexibility (manueverability) are the three components of safety. I am not using safety as a euphemism. I am using it to mean safety.

Visibility enables people to see situations that might develop earlier.
Predictability enables people to anticipate potential behavior.
Flexibility allows people to avoid situations if the previous two have failed.

That's not evidence. That's a hokey mantra.

Observe, orient, decide, act - OODA loop

It's not hokey or psuedo-scientific.

I love John Boyd as much as the next guy, but it’s hokey.

It's only the way almost all interactions happen and was originally developed to guide fighter jets at mach speed. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per the lawsuit:

12 percent of DC residents have mobility disabilities
Three-quarters of them are African American
One third of them are over the age of 65

Bicyclists five times more likely to be white than Black
Bicyclists predominantly male, white, 25-40, higher income

I'm rooting for the disabled black residents.

I'm so sick and tired of white bike riders, usually male, dressed up at 7:45am like it's the dang Tour de France and speeding up to make it impossible for anybody to drive around them in rush hour. We have TONS of bike paths in this area. Can't they get their fix on a bike path? And not during rush hour? It seems like an addiction to me. Especially with the costume.

There is this guy in Cleveland Park. Older white guy. Got mocked for pretending to be an ANC commissioner when talking to businesses. He was mostly kept in his lane for awhile. Well, he started joining virtual
community meetings, ANC stuff, DDOT events... The thing is that he decided to join these meetings as DuShawn, a concerned citizen of every SMD. Sometimes in the chat, he would even appropriate AAVE.

The prior post has a lot of those vibes, fellow kids.

I'm not a guy
I'm not a "fellow kid"
I'm not DuShawn
I'm not appropriating sh-t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

US people per sq mile - 742.
Japan has 881, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.21.

Anything else I can do for you? Or could you perhaps learn how to google a question before you form your misguided opinions and decide to vomit them on msg boards?

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bicyclists in DC are SO MEAN. The most road rage Ive seen in DC is from cyclists to drivers (I am a pedestrian--no wheels for me)

You definitely don't live where I live

As I'm sitting here reading this, two or three cars (hard to tell) are laying on their horns for longer than 10 seconds at each other right outside my apartment on Conn Ave. Go figure. But its gotta be a damn cyclist with an airhorn right. Couldn't possibly be a car. All car drivers are every so respectable and safe. They never speed or run lights or blow through stop signs or cheat crosswalks with pedestrians in them or pass to close to cyclists in their lane. No never. It's why our rate of traffic deaths in this country is so low, almost none. We just have the best drivers.

Oh wait, we aren't freaking a Scandanavian country where that little fable is true and our accident rates suck and drivers kill like 35,000-45,000 people a year.

Our rate of traffic deaths in this area is indeed low.

There will only be more horns outside your apartment when congestion is increased.

11.10 deaths per 100,000 in the US.
1.76 in Norway.
2.57 in Sweden.
4.58 in Canada.

Yep, seems real low there.

Now do the urban density of the four countries where bikers are more likely to be killed.

US people per sq mile - 742.
Japan has 881, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.21.
UK has 723, pretty comparable. It's rate of death per 100k people? 2.81.

Anything else I can do for you? Or could you perhaps learn how to google a question before you form your misguided opinions and decide to vomit them on msg boards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of hostility on this thread towards disabled people.

Try being a cyclist . . .

Sorry, no, this is ridiculous. Cyclists face a fraction, at best, of the hostility that disabled people do on a regular basis. And if you don't want to face hostility as a cyclist, you can just... get off your bike.

I bicycle all over the place and commute by bike far, far more often than I drive to work, but this comparison is (a) false, (b) inappropriately dismissive of what it's like to have a disability, and (c) also completely unhelpful for the pro-bike infrastructure argument.

There's a smart way to put in bike lanes that accommodates people with mobility issues, who in theory should be better off if the streets are designed better to allow uses besides only driving in cars. D.C. can figure it out and fix it moving forward.

Good job creating a strawman. The reply was specifically responding to a post about hostility in this thread. I’ve read none directed towards people with disabilities. Whereas virtually every second post here is spreading some ridiculous nonsense about cyclists.

The post said, “try being a cyclist,” and it didn’t say anything about referring only to this thread. I didn’t create a straw man, I responded to what it appeared to be saying.

I am one of the cyclists here, and if you actually find yourself being insulted or offended by the nonsense people post here about bikes or people who ride them, you should log off. It’s all anonymous dingdongs whining. Who cares if they’re hostile to you?

[Anonymous]

Love how this thread, which was about how the D.C. blatantly ignored the American Disabilities Act, and how bike lanes are putting disabled people in danger, has turned into a massive pity party for cyclists.

Never change, cyclists. Everything is always about you and your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire Metropolitan DC Local Politics forum is a handful of cranky rich NW republican bike haters who don't represent the will or majority opinion of the people of DC whatsoever.

They only post here because they have no outlet and are constantly frustrated that the will of the majority goes against what they want. They can just move, they are rich enough to easily.

Wanting disabled to be able to access their community without risking being run over is not solely a republican desire. I'm as liberal as they come, and somehow still value my loved ones safety.

And wanting to be able to navigate the city safely without a car is not a desire exclusive to "bike bros" or whatever is the pejorative-du-DCUM-jour.

As much as NDD and others love to project, "bike lanes" aren't just for bikes and are every bit as useful for electric-powered wheelchairs or other wheel-based mobility aids.

There are also very clear guidelines - referenced on page 3 of this thread - of how "bike lanes" can be designed to be fully compliant with the ADA and enable disabled people to alight from their vehicles and reach the curb without conflicting with passing micro-mobility devices.

In all seriousness, the NW NIMBY playbook is so very tired at this point and trying to exploit the concerns of disabled people and play on racial politics to mask their own crazed obsession with RPP privileges is as pathetic as it gets.

Bikers are almost entirely white. The disabled people whose lives are being put at risk as mostly black. But, sure, "racial politics."

Bikers in Ward 3 are almost entirely white. That is because Ward 3 is almost entirely white. If you get out of your Ward 3 bubble, you will see cyclists of all shapes and colors. Imagine that.

PP here. I live in a majority black ward. We have bike lanes but no one uses them, except for a small number of young white people.