In God We Trust sign prominently posted in FCPS Middle School main office

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it say which god?

You know millions of Americans don’t believe in — *gasp* — any god, right? And yet their kids still go to public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I walked into the office to pick up my daughter yesterday and noticed an 8.5 x 11 sign stating "In God We Trust" in a prominent location in the main office.

This seems at best inappropriate and at worst like a brazen attempt to bring personal religious beliefs into a public space (unfortunately I do think it is legal). I happen to know, because of the Principal's Instagram account, that she is extremely religious. I respect her personal beliefs and her right to express them in a private context.

But as someone who has carefully raised their children without religion and God, this sign is offensive to me. Whether or not it is intentional, it effectively others and intimidates constituents of that school who don't believe in God. Even if it only offends a few people, isn't that enough? Why is this necessary?

I know. It's on our money and it's in the pledge, but my kids can opt to not say the God part in the pledge. They can't opt not to go into the main office.

I filled out a discrimination complaint online, but I doubt anything will come of it (there are certainly more immediate issues in that arena for that office to address).

I am considering writing a kind and good faith note to the principal from an anonymous email address. Any (kind and in good faith) thoughts on that approach or ideas for ways to resolve this without backlash against my kids?

Thanks.

Train to kid to ignore it and do so yourself. I went to Christian schools (different country) where we had twice a day prayer and song. We also had White preachers that showed up to preach the gospel to us at least twice a year. Kids today would be "traumatized" by the gory videos of Christ being nailed to a cross that we had to watch as children. Not one of my friends became a Christian because of that. Your kid will be fine.

[Anonymous]

I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

I’m ok canceling all religious holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

You make a really good point. Now that FCPS recognizes ALL major religious holidays, I guess we can finally start naming them again? Or do I have to skirt around the issue with things and call Diwali an "autumnal light celebration" or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is NOT ok. Not because of the sign itself - a few years back, that would have just been an odd place to reference a dollar bill. In the current circumstances it is a dog whistle to Christian nationalism and everything that entails.

I find it extremely offensive. I would avoid that school. I would definitely complain.

Why is this not allowed when FCPS officially celebrates Diwali, Eid, etc making all students take the day off or learn nothing? That's ok but a reference to God on a paper is Christian nationalism?

Do we have politicians forcing schools to put up Muslim, Hindu, Jewish signs?

Muslims and Jews are both Abrahamic religions though. It's my understanding that there is a Supreme God in Hinduisml, though there a multitude of Gods as well.

Again, you can read "In God we trust" however you want, and adherents to different traditions may read their own God(s) into it.

No. We don't. I'm Jewish and I don't for one moment believe there is any god referenced in that sign other than the Christian god. After all, it was Christians who lobbied for the motto and for pasting it everywhere, and they did so as an absolute and direct reference to Christianity - their version of it, anyway. To see it any other way is to deny the obvious.

Please keep being like this in public. Exactly like this. It really helps to open people's eyes.

I think this is called gaslighting. Where you pretend someone is being hysterical and overreacting, but actually they have accurately perceived things. I remember the push to put those signs up. It was the direct result of a huge campaign from the far right, and in particular there was one organized group - a Christian nationalist group - that was behind it. It was intended as Christian. It was never intended to be inclusive, and those people would have balked at the suggestion that anyone should interpret it otherwise.

I know, right?

Do you also remember when that same exact group did the same thing to get that motto put on all our coins and money?

LOL of course not, because I hadn't been born yet. That happened a century and a half ago, and so it obviously was NOT the same people, who were active in the state of Virginia just about 20 years ago and pushed for the motto to appear in schools (and then kindly provided everyone with a sign they'd made themselves).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

I’m ok canceling all religious holidays.

We don't have religious holidays. We have consumer holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

I’m ok canceling all religious holidays.

We don't have religious holidays. We have consumer holidays.

Great. I'm ok canceling all of those too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is NOT ok. Not because of the sign itself - a few years back, that would have just been an odd place to reference a dollar bill. In the current circumstances it is a dog whistle to Christian nationalism and everything that entails.

I find it extremely offensive. I would avoid that school. I would definitely complain.

Why is this not allowed when FCPS officially celebrates Diwali, Eid, etc making all students take the day off or learn nothing? That's ok but a reference to God on a paper is Christian nationalism?

Do we have politicians forcing schools to put up Muslim, Hindu, Jewish signs?

Muslims and Jews are both Abrahamic religions though. It's my understanding that there is a Supreme God in Hinduisml, though there a multitude of Gods as well.

Again, you can read "In God we trust" however you want, and adherents to different traditions may read their own God(s) into it.

No. We don't. I'm Jewish and I don't for one moment believe there is any god referenced in that sign other than the Christian god. After all, it was Christians who lobbied for the motto and for pasting it everywhere, and they did so as an absolute and direct reference to Christianity - their version of it, anyway. To see it any other way is to deny the obvious.

Please keep being like this in public. Exactly like this. It really helps to open people's eyes.

I think this is called gaslighting. Where you pretend someone is being hysterical and overreacting, but actually they have accurately perceived things. I remember the push to put those signs up. It was the direct result of a huge campaign from the far right, and in particular there was one organized group - a Christian nationalist group - that was behind it. It was intended as Christian. It was never intended to be inclusive, and those people would have balked at the suggestion that anyone should interpret it otherwise.

I know, right?

Do you also remember when that same exact group did the same thing to get that motto put on all our coins and money?

LOL of course not, because I hadn't been born yet. That happened a century and a half ago, and so it obviously was NOT the same people, who were active in the state of Virginia just about 20 years ago and pushed for the motto to appear in schools (and then kindly provided everyone with a sign they'd made themselves).

Got it.

So you are triggered by it being visible in a public school.

Are you also triggered every time you use US currency?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We need to learn to be ok with being offended. It’s ok that it was there. It’s not telling you that you have to believe.

No, we don’t. We can point out things that are fundamentally wrong.

It’s not ok that it was there.

You don't have a right not to be offended.

We are a country of free speech and freedom of religion.

I love all the constitutional scholars who have no idea what the constitution actually says.

Yes.

Thos who want to restrict speech, who think the constitution guarantees a right to not have their feelings hurt, and who think the constitution syas anything about separation of church and state" probably need to take some time to actually read the constitution.

They also forget that the whole reason there isn't an establishment of religion at the federal level, is that the various states had different established churches.

Not really. The same guy who wrote the Establishment Clause also wrote the Memorial and Remonstrance

You sure? While most southern states had ended their established churches by 1790, which were mostly Episcopal, New Hampshire kept its establishment until 1817; Connecticut kept its establishment until 1818; and Massachusetts did not abandon its state support for Congregationalism until 1833.

Madison isn't exactly an obscure figure and both works are somewhat famous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in fairy tales but find it incredibly hypocritical when people only complain about Christian influence and no other because they want to be “inclusive”. Alert: inclusive means everyone. It means all the fairy tales. You can’t complain about recognizing Christian holidays and say “winter break” or “ spring break” (instead of Easter or Christmas) but praise FCPS for recognizing Diwali or Yom Kippur. None of these should be acknowledged. Schools should be religion free zones. Don’t even get me started on the cancelling of Halloween parades. What monsters refuse to recognize a holiday involving free candy?

You make a really good point. Now that FCPS recognizes ALL major religious holidays, I guess we can finally start naming them again? Or do I have to skirt around the issue with things and call Diwali an "autumnal light celebration" or something?

They certainly do not recognize ALL major religious holidays. https://pastafarians.org.au/pastafarianism/holidays/

[Anonymous]

All it is is the state of Virginia showing a middle finger to the idea of The Separation of Church and State. Backwards and embarrassing - that's Virginia!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All it is is the state of Virginia showing a middle finger to the idea of The Separation of Church and State. Backwards and embarrassing - that's Virginia!

Yup. Full of racists, misogynists, and religious extremists.

Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it say which god?

You know millions of Americans don’t believe in — *gasp* — any god, right? And yet their kids still go to public school.

And that's not an establishment of religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to learn to be ok with being offended. It’s ok that it was there. It’s not telling you that you have to believe.

No, we don’t. We can point out things that are fundamentally wrong.

It’s not ok that it was there.

You don't have a right not to be offended.

We are a country of free speech and freedom of religion.

I love all the constitutional scholars who have no idea what the constitution actually says.

Yes.

Thos who want to restrict speech, who think the constitution guarantees a right to not have their feelings hurt, and who think the constitution syas anything about separation of church and state" probably need to take some time to actually read the constitution.

They also forget that the whole reason there isn't an establishment of religion at the federal level, is that the various states had different established churches.

Not really. The same guy who wrote the Establishment Clause also wrote the Memorial and Remonstrance

You sure? While most southern states had ended their established churches by 1790, which were mostly Episcopal, New Hampshire kept its establishment until 1817; Connecticut kept its establishment until 1818; and Massachusetts did not abandon its state support for Congregationalism until 1833.

Madison isn't exactly an obscure figure and both works are somewhat famous

And has zero to do with the fact that the states had their own established churches.