Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why Shakespeare? Why not Chaucer?
I’m also wondering how many of the vigorous supporters of reading Shakespeare have read any of his works beyond some academic requirement, or have even gone to plays. Is this an ongoing interest with ongoing support? Any Folger fans?

I do teach Chaucer in my AP Lit class, actually. We do The Canterbury Tales (and Boccaccio's Decameron). I adore Chaucer. I know many other English teachers who cover Chaucer, so I'm not sure why you think Chaucer is not taught.

But OK.

You can't really compare the two, PP. They're too different in language, structure, content, volume, and theme.

Perhaps you attended a low-performing school where the curriculum was cut to the bone, and you didn't study Chaucer. Here's why more students are exposed to Shakespeare than Chaucer in such an environment:

1. Shakespeare's themes are more universal and relevant in the contemporary world. And Chaucer simply didn't produce as much material.

2. Chaucer is written in Middle English, which is more challenging for students. I'm a purist and the translations irritate me because they are simply less vivid and engaging. Shakespeare's early Modern English is more accessible and familiar to students.

FYI, neither Chaucer nor Shakespeare wrote in Old English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why Shakespeare? Why not Chaucer?
I’m also wondering how many of the vigorous supporters of reading Shakespeare have read any of his works beyond some academic requirement, or have even gone to plays. Is this an ongoing interest with ongoing support? Any Folger fans?

I have read everything he wrote. I reread plays during the summers. In my years as an English teacher at a UK boarding school, I have taken many classes to the Globe to see live performances, and I often attend these just with friends. I have been so grateful to engage with a programme via the educational team at the Globe, which sends their team to schools to lead workshops in acting Shakespeare with students. Every year I direct a play at my school. And I have a Ph d. in English Literature.

What are your credentials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably fine if they no longer teach Shakespeare. People have valid feelings around not wanting to glorify colonial oppression and i don't see the relevance to my personal life.

What connection does Shakespeare have to colonialism? He lived in a time where the only people the English were oppressing where other white people in Wales and Ireland. His writing has nothing to do with colonialism. He's not Kipling.

And only wanting to read writings that have relevance to your personal life is pretty much the definition of a provincial mind.

So you clearly haven't read much Shakespeare, or you would know that plays exploring this theme, like Othello, feature non-English characters living...not in England. Idiot.

Was this directed at the first or second comment?

Anyway, Othello has nothing to do with colonialism.

Okay, that's not totally true. The backdrop of the conflict between Venice and The Ottoman Empire deals with European resistance to Non-European colonialism. Of course, I don't expect the tragically woke to know about that bit of history, since it really messes up their narrative when it comes to things like colonialism and slavery.

The woke pick from the history only what fits their creed. In that view colonialism and slavery are exclusive to white people, throughout the entire human history. Ancient Greek culture is white, Cleopatra was black, race based slavery never existed within the Golden Horde, the Spanish were always invaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably fine if they no longer teach Shakespeare. People have valid feelings around not wanting to glorify colonial oppression and i don't see the relevance to my personal life.

What connection does Shakespeare have to colonialism? He lived in a time where the only people the English were oppressing where other white people in Wales and Ireland. His writing has nothing to do with colonialism. He's not Kipling.

And only wanting to read writings that have relevance to your personal life is pretty much the definition of a provincial mind.

So you clearly haven't read much Shakespeare, or you would know that plays exploring this theme, like Othello, feature non-English characters living...not in England. Idiot.

Was this directed at the first or second comment?

Anyway, Othello has nothing to do with colonialism.

Okay, that's not totally true. The backdrop of the conflict between Venice and The Ottoman Empire deals with European resistance to Non-European colonialism. Of course, I don't expect the tragically woke to know about that bit of history, since it really messes up their narrative when it comes to things like colonialism and slavery.

The woke pick from the history only what fits their creed. In that view colonialism and slavery are exclusive to white people, throughout the entire human history. Ancient Greek culture is white, Cleopatra was black, race based slavery never existed within the Golden Horde, the Spanish were always invaders.

People are talking about things in the past 159 years but ok.

[Anonymous]

William Shakespeare, 1585–1613.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably fine if they no longer teach Shakespeare. People have valid feelings around not wanting to glorify colonial oppression and i don't see the relevance to my personal life.

What connection does Shakespeare have to colonialism? He lived in a time where the only people the English were oppressing where other white people in Wales and Ireland. His writing has nothing to do with colonialism. He's not Kipling.

And only wanting to read writings that have relevance to your personal life is pretty much the definition of a provincial mind.

So you clearly haven't read much Shakespeare, or you would know that plays exploring this theme, like Othello, feature non-English characters living...not in England. Idiot.

Was this directed at the first or second comment?

Anyway, Othello has nothing to do with colonialism.

Okay, that's not totally true. The backdrop of the conflict between Venice and The Ottoman Empire deals with European resistance to Non-European colonialism. Of course, I don't expect the tragically woke to know about that bit of history, since it really messes up their narrative when it comes to things like colonialism and slavery.

The woke pick from the history only what fits their creed. In that view colonialism and slavery are exclusive to white people, throughout the entire human history. Ancient Greek culture is white, Cleopatra was black, race based slavery never existed within the Golden Horde, the Spanish were always invaders.

People are talking about things in the past 159 years but ok.

Shakespeare lived 400 years ago but ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The troll poster that wants to cancel Shakespeare is just an inarticulate version of a much more pernicious current. The ‘sophisticated’ scholars where these ideas originate are in the humanities departments at prestigious universities.

This is the current analysis on Shakespeare that draws that inspiration and there are countless ‘works’ in this vein:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41280-020-00169-6

In a nutshell, Shakespeare is harmful to black kids because whiteness.

The reason ‘middle aged’ (I know, the horror!) people still appreciate Shakespeare with all the good reasons presented in this thread is that they weren’t exposed to the critical studies ideas that dominate universities today. The woke cancel culture mob representatives are just parroting the line presented to them in college in the past 5-10 years.

I am not black. I am Asian but of course you would work from a black/white paradigm. And you lost the plot because I never said let’s cancel Shakespeare. I said it’s funny there’s a whole long question about this and continuous comment complaining and digging for Shakespeare. At the same time on another thread there are continuous comments fighting against things like restorative justice, equity, and learning history other than the white one.

You all should read Ego is the enemy, you’re always in it. This isn’t about white bad black good. Unfortunately there are good and bad people in all ethnic groups. Acknowledging that white privilege is a part of why this post has become popular does not mean Shakespeare needs to die.
I’ve already said at least when I was at Walls I did read it. And that’s only one school, I’m quite sure other schools in dcps read it.

Your culture is not in danger, the literary works of white authors is not in danger. That is why this thread is so funny. It’s also a cop out to cry anytime someone points out whiteness as a factor to anything. I am sorry you feel attacked and don’t want to hear about whiteness anymore, I don’t either but this is the world your ancestors created.

The colonizer comment was meant to incite anger, I am sure but it had some modicum of truth.

Shakespeare is fine.

I did not claim you are black, it doesn't matter to me what your race is. I claimed that your views on Shakespeare are just an unrefined version of the current sweeping the academia under the umbrella of name-your-grievance studies and as of late, witeness studies. The link I posted is just one of the many examples of shoddy scholarship that aims to legitimize your view that Shakespeare is not relevant or is even bad for various classes of students because is an exponent of colonialism, oppression and white supremacy.

Youre are so ignorant! You have no idea who my ancestors are, what they created, and you know nothing about my culture. Just stupid and silly generalizations of categorizing people in boxes that fit your narrative. I came to US in my 20's from Eastern Europe. Shakespeare is part of my heritage now not through me being white, but through learning the culture of my adoptive country. I'll make sure my son reads Shakespeare, not because of whiteness, but because I recognize literary genius, and because it will make him a better a more complex human being.

Just to probe how shallow you are, what is whiteness to you?

“ in a nutshell Shakespeare is harmful to BLACK kids because of whiteness” but whateverrr.

Sigh, why do people like you assume I think white people cannot suffer? Of course you surely can and like any other human you deserve love and empathy. That is separate from white privilege.

And you know very well whiteness is what you are NOT. Asians used to be classified as ‘white’ until they were excluded because of course we come in all shades and racism. I should have to explain this to you, especially since you are so educated about Shakespeare lol. Gotta say though Stratford-upon-Avon is beautiful.

I just summarized what was written in the abstract of the paper that I linked. I wated to spare the forum readers, but if you want the unadulterated word salad version, there you go:

"My confession, to which I turn at the close of this essay, rehearses a pedagogical experience wherein the wages of whiteness exact their usual cost from me and my students, demanding that we yield to white practices of knowledge-making in Shakespeare".

This is your point of view, slightly changed but the essence is the same.

Why this obsession in considering the race of the creator as part of judging the value of his work, even when the concept of race came about centuries after the death of said creator? Somehow you consider culture generated in the European area as 'white', and related with oppression. Why isn't Shakespeare part of the heritage of a black, hispanic or asian child and relevant to their experience? Because of skin color, or because it was written in English? In your view we are supposed to claim our culture and heritage as narrow as possible as to not offend the cultural appropriation hystheria.

You are actually part of the problem. You are conflating episodes of past atrocities with western culture. In this thread it's Shakespeare, elsewhere math is racist and an embodiment of white supremacy (no hyperbole, this is exactly what they claim).

I wouldn't normally care, but this culture war is starting to affect my child because it's spilling into the education system, and this is really pissing me off. Thats why I am arguing with you, your views are toxic and need to be countered and challenged.

I’m sorry you feel your child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues.

Also stop being obtuse, is this on purpose? I never said the idea of teaching Shakespeare is ‘bad.’ I said THIS thread shows how this forum favors topics popular among middle class , generally middle aged white women and that those topics are so irrelevant. Especially since it is indeed being taught.

While you are disparaging the effort to discipline kids beyond suspension and expulsion, you sit here and cry about Shakespeare.

Have your child go to a white private school because this kind of language will continue to get popular, especially with younger millennials and gen z.
You may indoctrinate your child with your beliefs and continue to add to the problem.

You have not summarized my beliefs and the fact that you post the same useless dribble and try to ‘school’ me is hilarious. I was not the one who cried about colonialism but I do think having a diverse set of literature is important. Shakespeare is only a small part and like I said is not in any danger, yet certain white people feel the need to commune and have another thing to be outraged about. Enjoy your fake outrage party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably fine if they no longer teach Shakespeare. People have valid feelings around not wanting to glorify colonial oppression and i don't see the relevance to my personal life.

What connection does Shakespeare have to colonialism? He lived in a time where the only people the English were oppressing where other white people in Wales and Ireland. His writing has nothing to do with colonialism. He's not Kipling.

And only wanting to read writings that have relevance to your personal life is pretty much the definition of a provincial mind.

So you clearly haven't read much Shakespeare, or you would know that plays exploring this theme, like Othello, feature non-English characters living...not in England. Idiot.

Was this directed at the first or second comment?

Anyway, Othello has nothing to do with colonialism.

Okay, that's not totally true. The backdrop of the conflict between Venice and The Ottoman Empire deals with European resistance to Non-European colonialism. Of course, I don't expect the tragically woke to know about that bit of history, since it really messes up their narrative when it comes to things like colonialism and slavery.

The woke pick from the history only what fits their creed. In that view colonialism and slavery are exclusive to white people, throughout the entire human history. Ancient Greek culture is white, Cleopatra was black, race based slavery never existed within the Golden Horde, the Spanish were always invaders.

People are talking about things in the past 159 years but ok.

Shakespeare lived 400 years ago but ok.

This was in reference to holding white people accountable for things other ethnic groups did in the past as well. Keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's probably fine if they no longer teach Shakespeare. People have valid feelings around not wanting to glorify colonial oppression and i don't see the relevance to my personal life.

What connection does Shakespeare have to colonialism? He lived in a time where the only people the English were oppressing where other white people in Wales and Ireland. His writing has nothing to do with colonialism. He's not Kipling.

And only wanting to read writings that have relevance to your personal life is pretty much the definition of a provincial mind.

So you clearly haven't read much Shakespeare, or you would know that plays exploring this theme, like Othello, feature non-English characters living...not in England. Idiot.

Was this directed at the first or second comment?

Anyway, Othello has nothing to do with colonialism.

Okay, that's not totally true. The backdrop of the conflict between Venice and The Ottoman Empire deals with European resistance to Non-European colonialism. Of course, I don't expect the tragically woke to know about that bit of history, since it really messes up their narrative when it comes to things like colonialism and slavery.

The woke pick from the history only what fits their creed. In that view colonialism and slavery are exclusive to white people, throughout the entire human history. Ancient Greek culture is white, Cleopatra was black, race based slavery never existed within the Golden Horde, the Spanish were always invaders.

People are talking about things in the past 159 years but ok.

Shakespeare lived 400 years ago but ok.

This was in reference to holding white people accountable for things other ethnic groups did in the past as well. Keep up.

Why do you want to hold white people accountable for things other ethnic groups did in the past? You are confusing.

[Anonymous]

There's definitely cringeworthy material within Shakespeare. It does include colonialism, slavery, racism, monarchy, murder, betrayal, suicide, elder abuse, war crimes, witches and monsters. I mean, not thinking too hard here, those are things you want to not just casually jump into with kids. Also, love, fairies, twins, and mistaken identities, but yeah, get kids ready for what they're gonna read.

It's great literature. It's also hard for most people to understand even if philologists and historians group it with modern English. I frankly think most English majors struggle with grasping every word, so people with a vocabulary mismatch - not scaffolded up to it or coming from another language background - are going to seriously struggle.

Shakespeare is also not the only way to teach concepts of drama. The "canon" is bigger than one playwright or time period; Americans have been writing plays for 300 years. If there are easier alternatives, they are not wrong for the context.

But who knows. Double, double toil and trouble; comments burn and trolls bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The troll poster that wants to cancel Shakespeare is just an inarticulate version of a much more pernicious current. The ‘sophisticated’ scholars where these ideas originate are in the humanities departments at prestigious universities.

This is the current analysis on Shakespeare that draws that inspiration and there are countless ‘works’ in this vein:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41280-020-00169-6

In a nutshell, Shakespeare is harmful to black kids because whiteness.

The reason ‘middle aged’ (I know, the horror!) people still appreciate Shakespeare with all the good reasons presented in this thread is that they weren’t exposed to the critical studies ideas that dominate universities today. The woke cancel culture mob representatives are just parroting the line presented to them in college in the past 5-10 years.

I am not black. I am Asian but of course you would work from a black/white paradigm. And you lost the plot because I never said let’s cancel Shakespeare. I said it’s funny there’s a whole long question about this and continuous comment complaining and digging for Shakespeare. At the same time on another thread there are continuous comments fighting against things like restorative justice, equity, and learning history other than the white one.

You all should read Ego is the enemy, you’re always in it. This isn’t about white bad black good. Unfortunately there are good and bad people in all ethnic groups. Acknowledging that white privilege is a part of why this post has become popular does not mean Shakespeare needs to die.
I’ve already said at least when I was at Walls I did read it. And that’s only one school, I’m quite sure other schools in dcps read it.

Your culture is not in danger, the literary works of white authors is not in danger. That is why this thread is so funny. It’s also a cop out to cry anytime someone points out whiteness as a factor to anything. I am sorry you feel attacked and don’t want to hear about whiteness anymore, I don’t either but this is the world your ancestors created.

The colonizer comment was meant to incite anger, I am sure but it had some modicum of truth.

Shakespeare is fine.

I did not claim you are black, it doesn't matter to me what your race is. I claimed that your views on Shakespeare are just an unrefined version of the current sweeping the academia under the umbrella of name-your-grievance studies and as of late, witeness studies. The link I posted is just one of the many examples of shoddy scholarship that aims to legitimize your view that Shakespeare is not relevant or is even bad for various classes of students because is an exponent of colonialism, oppression and white supremacy.

Youre are so ignorant! You have no idea who my ancestors are, what they created, and you know nothing about my culture. Just stupid and silly generalizations of categorizing people in boxes that fit your narrative. I came to US in my 20's from Eastern Europe. Shakespeare is part of my heritage now not through me being white, but through learning the culture of my adoptive country. I'll make sure my son reads Shakespeare, not because of whiteness, but because I recognize literary genius, and because it will make him a better a more complex human being.

Just to probe how shallow you are, what is whiteness to you?

“ in a nutshell Shakespeare is harmful to BLACK kids because of whiteness” but whateverrr.

Sigh, why do people like you assume I think white people cannot suffer? Of course you surely can and like any other human you deserve love and empathy. That is separate from white privilege.

And you know very well whiteness is what you are NOT. Asians used to be classified as ‘white’ until they were excluded because of course we come in all shades and racism. I should have to explain this to you, especially since you are so educated about Shakespeare lol. Gotta say though Stratford-upon-Avon is beautiful.

I just summarized what was written in the abstract of the paper that I linked. I wated to spare the forum readers, but if you want the unadulterated word salad version, there you go:

"My confession, to which I turn at the close of this essay, rehearses a pedagogical experience wherein the wages of whiteness exact their usual cost from me and my students, demanding that we yield to white practices of knowledge-making in Shakespeare".

This is your point of view, slightly changed but the essence is the same.

Why this obsession in considering the race of the creator as part of judging the value of his work, even when the concept of race came about centuries after the death of said creator? Somehow you consider culture generated in the European area as 'white', and related with oppression. Why isn't Shakespeare part of the heritage of a black, hispanic or asian child and relevant to their experience? Because of skin color, or because it was written in English? In your view we are supposed to claim our culture and heritage as narrow as possible as to not offend the cultural appropriation hystheria.

You are actually part of the problem. You are conflating episodes of past atrocities with western culture. In this thread it's Shakespeare, elsewhere math is racist and an embodiment of white supremacy (no hyperbole, this is exactly what they claim).

I wouldn't normally care, but this culture war is starting to affect my child because it's spilling into the education system, and this is really pissing me off. Thats why I am arguing with you, your views are toxic and need to be countered and challenged.

I’m sorry you feel your child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues.

Also stop being obtuse, is this on purpose? I never said the idea of teaching Shakespeare is ‘bad.’ I said THIS thread shows how this forum favors topics popular among middle class , generally middle aged white women and that those topics are so irrelevant. Especially since it is indeed being taught.

While you are disparaging the effort to discipline kids beyond suspension and expulsion, you sit here and cry about Shakespeare.

Have your child go to a white private school because this kind of language will continue to get popular, especially with younger millennials and gen z.
You may indoctrinate your child with your beliefs and continue to add to the problem.

You have not summarized my beliefs and the fact that you post the same useless dribble and try to ‘school’ me is hilarious. I was not the one who cried about colonialism but I do think having a diverse set of literature is important. Shakespeare is only a small part and like I said is not in any danger, yet certain white people feel the need to commune and have another thing to be outraged about. Enjoy your fake outrage party.

I am paying for the public education of my child with my own taxes and I should have a say in it, thankfully it's not up to you. Who is being obtuse here? You just claimed I feel that my child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues. Freshman psych, much?

It was said on the thread that teaching Shakespeare is "glorifying colonial oppression", and that "white people are colonizers". I suspect it was still you, because I can't imagine there is another person making the same dumb comments, you are truly unique in this respect. It's not fake outrage if it's in response to an outrageous statement.

No idea what you are talking about with disparaging the effort to discipline beyond expulsion, you really confused me here, I suspect it's some woke jargony stuff.

What kind of 'diverse set of literature' (lol, really) is important to you? Give us some examples of literary work you find appropriate for high school.

And what's with the superiority complex you have towards white middle aged women, why do you keep bringing that up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why Shakespeare? Why not Chaucer?
I’m also wondering how many of the vigorous supporters of reading Shakespeare have read any of his works beyond some academic requirement, or have even gone to plays. Is this an ongoing interest with ongoing support? Any Folger fans?

On DCUM? Probably a lot. I was just thinking I need to re-watch Kenneth Branaugh's Much Ado About Nothing tonight as a palate cleanser to some of the eye-rolling pronouncements from Freshman Psych. Between COVID and really young kids I haven't seen anything live in a while, but the last Shakespeare play I went to was probably The Shakespeare Theater's rendition of MacBeth a few years ago with the backdrop of an African civil war and the three witches as CIA-type operatives that I thought was an interesting take.

That sounds like a fascinating production! If I had seen that when I was a high school student, I probably would have enjoyed —and appreciated — Macbeth a lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The troll poster that wants to cancel Shakespeare is just an inarticulate version of a much more pernicious current. The ‘sophisticated’ scholars where these ideas originate are in the humanities departments at prestigious universities.

This is the current analysis on Shakespeare that draws that inspiration and there are countless ‘works’ in this vein:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41280-020-00169-6

In a nutshell, Shakespeare is harmful to black kids because whiteness.

The reason ‘middle aged’ (I know, the horror!) people still appreciate Shakespeare with all the good reasons presented in this thread is that they weren’t exposed to the critical studies ideas that dominate universities today. The woke cancel culture mob representatives are just parroting the line presented to them in college in the past 5-10 years.

I am not black. I am Asian but of course you would work from a black/white paradigm. And you lost the plot because I never said let’s cancel Shakespeare. I said it’s funny there’s a whole long question about this and continuous comment complaining and digging for Shakespeare. At the same time on another thread there are continuous comments fighting against things like restorative justice, equity, and learning history other than the white one.

You all should read Ego is the enemy, you’re always in it. This isn’t about white bad black good. Unfortunately there are good and bad people in all ethnic groups. Acknowledging that white privilege is a part of why this post has become popular does not mean Shakespeare needs to die.
I’ve already said at least when I was at Walls I did read it. And that’s only one school, I’m quite sure other schools in dcps read it.

Your culture is not in danger, the literary works of white authors is not in danger. That is why this thread is so funny. It’s also a cop out to cry anytime someone points out whiteness as a factor to anything. I am sorry you feel attacked and don’t want to hear about whiteness anymore, I don’t either but this is the world your ancestors created.

The colonizer comment was meant to incite anger, I am sure but it had some modicum of truth.

Shakespeare is fine.

I did not claim you are black, it doesn't matter to me what your race is. I claimed that your views on Shakespeare are just an unrefined version of the current sweeping the academia under the umbrella of name-your-grievance studies and as of late, witeness studies. The link I posted is just one of the many examples of shoddy scholarship that aims to legitimize your view that Shakespeare is not relevant or is even bad for various classes of students because is an exponent of colonialism, oppression and white supremacy.

Youre are so ignorant! You have no idea who my ancestors are, what they created, and you know nothing about my culture. Just stupid and silly generalizations of categorizing people in boxes that fit your narrative. I came to US in my 20's from Eastern Europe. Shakespeare is part of my heritage now not through me being white, but through learning the culture of my adoptive country. I'll make sure my son reads Shakespeare, not because of whiteness, but because I recognize literary genius, and because it will make him a better a more complex human being.

Just to probe how shallow you are, what is whiteness to you?

“ in a nutshell Shakespeare is harmful to BLACK kids because of whiteness” but whateverrr.

Sigh, why do people like you assume I think white people cannot suffer? Of course you surely can and like any other human you deserve love and empathy. That is separate from white privilege.

And you know very well whiteness is what you are NOT. Asians used to be classified as ‘white’ until they were excluded because of course we come in all shades and racism. I should have to explain this to you, especially since you are so educated about Shakespeare lol. Gotta say though Stratford-upon-Avon is beautiful.

I just summarized what was written in the abstract of the paper that I linked. I wated to spare the forum readers, but if you want the unadulterated word salad version, there you go:

"My confession, to which I turn at the close of this essay, rehearses a pedagogical experience wherein the wages of whiteness exact their usual cost from me and my students, demanding that we yield to white practices of knowledge-making in Shakespeare".

This is your point of view, slightly changed but the essence is the same.

Why this obsession in considering the race of the creator as part of judging the value of his work, even when the concept of race came about centuries after the death of said creator? Somehow you consider culture generated in the European area as 'white', and related with oppression. Why isn't Shakespeare part of the heritage of a black, hispanic or asian child and relevant to their experience? Because of skin color, or because it was written in English? In your view we are supposed to claim our culture and heritage as narrow as possible as to not offend the cultural appropriation hystheria.

You are actually part of the problem. You are conflating episodes of past atrocities with western culture. In this thread it's Shakespeare, elsewhere math is racist and an embodiment of white supremacy (no hyperbole, this is exactly what they claim).

I wouldn't normally care, but this culture war is starting to affect my child because it's spilling into the education system, and this is really pissing me off. Thats why I am arguing with you, your views are toxic and need to be countered and challenged.

I’m sorry you feel your child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues.

Also stop being obtuse, is this on purpose? I never said the idea of teaching Shakespeare is ‘bad.’ I said THIS thread shows how this forum favors topics popular among middle class , generally middle aged white women and that those topics are so irrelevant. Especially since it is indeed being taught.

While you are disparaging the effort to discipline kids beyond suspension and expulsion, you sit here and cry about Shakespeare.

Have your child go to a white private school because this kind of language will continue to get popular, especially with younger millennials and gen z.
You may indoctrinate your child with your beliefs and continue to add to the problem.

You have not summarized my beliefs and the fact that you post the same useless dribble and try to ‘school’ me is hilarious. I was not the one who cried about colonialism but I do think having a diverse set of literature is important. Shakespeare is only a small part and like I said is not in any danger, yet certain white people feel the need to commune and have another thing to be outraged about. Enjoy your fake outrage party.

I am paying for the public education of my child with my own taxes and I should have a say in it, thankfully it's not up to you. Who is being obtuse here? You just claimed I feel that my child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues. Freshman psych, much?

It was said on the thread that teaching Shakespeare is "glorifying colonial oppression", and that "white people are colonizers". I suspect it was still you, because I can't imagine there is another person making the same dumb comments, you are truly unique in this respect. It's not fake outrage if it's in response to an outrageous statement.

No idea what you are talking about with disparaging the effort to discipline beyond expulsion, you really confused me here, I suspect it's some woke jargony stuff.

What kind of 'diverse set of literature' (lol, really) is important to you? Give us some examples of literary work you find appropriate for high school.

And what's with the superiority complex you have towards white middle aged women, why do you keep bringing that up?

Unresolved mommy issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The troll poster that wants to cancel Shakespeare is just an inarticulate version of a much more pernicious current. The ‘sophisticated’ scholars where these ideas originate are in the humanities departments at prestigious universities.

This is the current analysis on Shakespeare that draws that inspiration and there are countless ‘works’ in this vein:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41280-020-00169-6

In a nutshell, Shakespeare is harmful to black kids because whiteness.

The reason ‘middle aged’ (I know, the horror!) people still appreciate Shakespeare with all the good reasons presented in this thread is that they weren’t exposed to the critical studies ideas that dominate universities today. The woke cancel culture mob representatives are just parroting the line presented to them in college in the past 5-10 years.

I am not black. I am Asian but of course you would work from a black/white paradigm. And you lost the plot because I never said let’s cancel Shakespeare. I said it’s funny there’s a whole long question about this and continuous comment complaining and digging for Shakespeare. At the same time on another thread there are continuous comments fighting against things like restorative justice, equity, and learning history other than the white one.

You all should read Ego is the enemy, you’re always in it. This isn’t about white bad black good. Unfortunately there are good and bad people in all ethnic groups. Acknowledging that white privilege is a part of why this post has become popular does not mean Shakespeare needs to die.
I’ve already said at least when I was at Walls I did read it. And that’s only one school, I’m quite sure other schools in dcps read it.

Your culture is not in danger, the literary works of white authors is not in danger. That is why this thread is so funny. It’s also a cop out to cry anytime someone points out whiteness as a factor to anything. I am sorry you feel attacked and don’t want to hear about whiteness anymore, I don’t either but this is the world your ancestors created.

The colonizer comment was meant to incite anger, I am sure but it had some modicum of truth.

Shakespeare is fine.

I did not claim you are black, it doesn't matter to me what your race is. I claimed that your views on Shakespeare are just an unrefined version of the current sweeping the academia under the umbrella of name-your-grievance studies and as of late, witeness studies. The link I posted is just one of the many examples of shoddy scholarship that aims to legitimize your view that Shakespeare is not relevant or is even bad for various classes of students because is an exponent of colonialism, oppression and white supremacy.

Youre are so ignorant! You have no idea who my ancestors are, what they created, and you know nothing about my culture. Just stupid and silly generalizations of categorizing people in boxes that fit your narrative. I came to US in my 20's from Eastern Europe. Shakespeare is part of my heritage now not through me being white, but through learning the culture of my adoptive country. I'll make sure my son reads Shakespeare, not because of whiteness, but because I recognize literary genius, and because it will make him a better a more complex human being.

Just to probe how shallow you are, what is whiteness to you?

“ in a nutshell Shakespeare is harmful to BLACK kids because of whiteness” but whateverrr.

Sigh, why do people like you assume I think white people cannot suffer? Of course you surely can and like any other human you deserve love and empathy. That is separate from white privilege.

And you know very well whiteness is what you are NOT. Asians used to be classified as ‘white’ until they were excluded because of course we come in all shades and racism. I should have to explain this to you, especially since you are so educated about Shakespeare lol. Gotta say though Stratford-upon-Avon is beautiful.

I just summarized what was written in the abstract of the paper that I linked. I wated to spare the forum readers, but if you want the unadulterated word salad version, there you go:

"My confession, to which I turn at the close of this essay, rehearses a pedagogical experience wherein the wages of whiteness exact their usual cost from me and my students, demanding that we yield to white practices of knowledge-making in Shakespeare".

This is your point of view, slightly changed but the essence is the same.

Why this obsession in considering the race of the creator as part of judging the value of his work, even when the concept of race came about centuries after the death of said creator? Somehow you consider culture generated in the European area as 'white', and related with oppression. Why isn't Shakespeare part of the heritage of a black, hispanic or asian child and relevant to their experience? Because of skin color, or because it was written in English? In your view we are supposed to claim our culture and heritage as narrow as possible as to not offend the cultural appropriation hystheria.

You are actually part of the problem. You are conflating episodes of past atrocities with western culture. In this thread it's Shakespeare, elsewhere math is racist and an embodiment of white supremacy (no hyperbole, this is exactly what they claim).

I wouldn't normally care, but this culture war is starting to affect my child because it's spilling into the education system, and this is really pissing me off. Thats why I am arguing with you, your views are toxic and need to be countered and challenged.

I’m sorry you feel your child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues.

Also stop being obtuse, is this on purpose? I never said the idea of teaching Shakespeare is ‘bad.’ I said THIS thread shows how this forum favors topics popular among middle class , generally middle aged white women and that those topics are so irrelevant. Especially since it is indeed being taught.

While you are disparaging the effort to discipline kids beyond suspension and expulsion, you sit here and cry about Shakespeare.

Have your child go to a white private school because this kind of language will continue to get popular, especially with younger millennials and gen z.
You may indoctrinate your child with your beliefs and continue to add to the problem.

You have not summarized my beliefs and the fact that you post the same useless dribble and try to ‘school’ me is hilarious. I was not the one who cried about colonialism but I do think having a diverse set of literature is important. Shakespeare is only a small part and like I said is not in any danger, yet certain white people feel the need to commune and have another thing to be outraged about. Enjoy your fake outrage party.

I am paying for the public education of my child with my own taxes and I should have a say in it, thankfully it's not up to you. Who is being obtuse here? You just claimed I feel that my child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues. Freshman psych, much?

It was said on the thread that teaching Shakespeare is "glorifying colonial oppression", and that "white people are colonizers". I suspect it was still you, because I can't imagine there is another person making the same dumb comments, you are truly unique in this respect. It's not fake outrage if it's in response to an outrageous statement.

No idea what you are talking about with disparaging the effort to discipline beyond expulsion, you really confused me here, I suspect it's some woke jargony stuff.

What kind of 'diverse set of literature' (lol, really) is important to you? Give us some examples of literary work you find appropriate for high school.

And what's with the superiority complex you have towards white middle aged women, why do you keep bringing that up?

Unresolved mommy issues

At least I have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The troll poster that wants to cancel Shakespeare is just an inarticulate version of a much more pernicious current. The ‘sophisticated’ scholars where these ideas originate are in the humanities departments at prestigious universities.

This is the current analysis on Shakespeare that draws that inspiration and there are countless ‘works’ in this vein:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41280-020-00169-6

In a nutshell, Shakespeare is harmful to black kids because whiteness.

The reason ‘middle aged’ (I know, the horror!) people still appreciate Shakespeare with all the good reasons presented in this thread is that they weren’t exposed to the critical studies ideas that dominate universities today. The woke cancel culture mob representatives are just parroting the line presented to them in college in the past 5-10 years.

I am not black. I am Asian but of course you would work from a black/white paradigm. And you lost the plot because I never said let’s cancel Shakespeare. I said it’s funny there’s a whole long question about this and continuous comment complaining and digging for Shakespeare. At the same time on another thread there are continuous comments fighting against things like restorative justice, equity, and learning history other than the white one.

You all should read Ego is the enemy, you’re always in it. This isn’t about white bad black good. Unfortunately there are good and bad people in all ethnic groups. Acknowledging that white privilege is a part of why this post has become popular does not mean Shakespeare needs to die.
I’ve already said at least when I was at Walls I did read it. And that’s only one school, I’m quite sure other schools in dcps read it.

Your culture is not in danger, the literary works of white authors is not in danger. That is why this thread is so funny. It’s also a cop out to cry anytime someone points out whiteness as a factor to anything. I am sorry you feel attacked and don’t want to hear about whiteness anymore, I don’t either but this is the world your ancestors created.

The colonizer comment was meant to incite anger, I am sure but it had some modicum of truth.

Shakespeare is fine.

I did not claim you are black, it doesn't matter to me what your race is. I claimed that your views on Shakespeare are just an unrefined version of the current sweeping the academia under the umbrella of name-your-grievance studies and as of late, witeness studies. The link I posted is just one of the many examples of shoddy scholarship that aims to legitimize your view that Shakespeare is not relevant or is even bad for various classes of students because is an exponent of colonialism, oppression and white supremacy.

Youre are so ignorant! You have no idea who my ancestors are, what they created, and you know nothing about my culture. Just stupid and silly generalizations of categorizing people in boxes that fit your narrative. I came to US in my 20's from Eastern Europe. Shakespeare is part of my heritage now not through me being white, but through learning the culture of my adoptive country. I'll make sure my son reads Shakespeare, not because of whiteness, but because I recognize literary genius, and because it will make him a better a more complex human being.

Just to probe how shallow you are, what is whiteness to you?

“ in a nutshell Shakespeare is harmful to BLACK kids because of whiteness” but whateverrr.

Sigh, why do people like you assume I think white people cannot suffer? Of course you surely can and like any other human you deserve love and empathy. That is separate from white privilege.

And you know very well whiteness is what you are NOT. Asians used to be classified as ‘white’ until they were excluded because of course we come in all shades and racism. I should have to explain this to you, especially since you are so educated about Shakespeare lol. Gotta say though Stratford-upon-Avon is beautiful.

I just summarized what was written in the abstract of the paper that I linked. I wated to spare the forum readers, but if you want the unadulterated word salad version, there you go:

"My confession, to which I turn at the close of this essay, rehearses a pedagogical experience wherein the wages of whiteness exact their usual cost from me and my students, demanding that we yield to white practices of knowledge-making in Shakespeare".

This is your point of view, slightly changed but the essence is the same.

Why this obsession in considering the race of the creator as part of judging the value of his work, even when the concept of race came about centuries after the death of said creator? Somehow you consider culture generated in the European area as 'white', and related with oppression. Why isn't Shakespeare part of the heritage of a black, hispanic or asian child and relevant to their experience? Because of skin color, or because it was written in English? In your view we are supposed to claim our culture and heritage as narrow as possible as to not offend the cultural appropriation hystheria.

You are actually part of the problem. You are conflating episodes of past atrocities with western culture. In this thread it's Shakespeare, elsewhere math is racist and an embodiment of white supremacy (no hyperbole, this is exactly what they claim).

I wouldn't normally care, but this culture war is starting to affect my child because it's spilling into the education system, and this is really pissing me off. Thats why I am arguing with you, your views are toxic and need to be countered and challenged.

I’m sorry you feel your child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues.

Also stop being obtuse, is this on purpose? I never said the idea of teaching Shakespeare is ‘bad.’ I said THIS thread shows how this forum favors topics popular among middle class , generally middle aged white women and that those topics are so irrelevant. Especially since it is indeed being taught.

While you are disparaging the effort to discipline kids beyond suspension and expulsion, you sit here and cry about Shakespeare.

Have your child go to a white private school because this kind of language will continue to get popular, especially with younger millennials and gen z.
You may indoctrinate your child with your beliefs and continue to add to the problem.

You have not summarized my beliefs and the fact that you post the same useless dribble and try to ‘school’ me is hilarious. I was not the one who cried about colonialism but I do think having a diverse set of literature is important. Shakespeare is only a small part and like I said is not in any danger, yet certain white people feel the need to commune and have another thing to be outraged about. Enjoy your fake outrage party.

I am paying for the public education of my child with my own taxes and I should have a say in it, thankfully it's not up to you. Who is being obtuse here? You just claimed I feel that my child deserves to live in a world where white supremacy continues. Freshman psych, much?

It was said on the thread that teaching Shakespeare is "glorifying colonial oppression", and that "white people are colonizers". I suspect it was still you, because I can't imagine there is another person making the same dumb comments, you are truly unique in this respect. It's not fake outrage if it's in response to an outrageous statement.

No idea what you are talking about with disparaging the effort to discipline beyond expulsion, you really confused me here, I suspect it's some woke jargony stuff.

What kind of 'diverse set of literature' (lol, really) is important to you? Give us some examples of literary work you find appropriate for high school.

And what's with the superiority complex you have towards white middle aged women, why do you keep bringing that up?

I don’t use the word ‘ya’ll’ it’s interesting you think that there can’t be other people who think this thread is ridiculous.

Why do you keep bringing up Black students? *shrugs*