Social communication delay

[Anonymous]

Here is my short & sweet experience with the issue:

My son was a late talker and had a tongue tie which made it impossible to make some sounds. Not being able to talk resulted in a speech delay which had a corresponding social/emotional delay. KKI Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician has been seeing him every six months since he was 2.5. He's now 7 w/no ASD suspected, and a complete chatterbox. Still in SPED for supports as he catches up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to highly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

Wrong. No one is saying it's a mode of diagnosis however there are relationships between a diagnosis and test strengths/weaknesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to hghly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

DP. I personally think NVLD could be a useful subtype of autism. I have a kid who fits a lot of the NLVD characteristics. That said I’m comfortable with the ASD diagnosis. It’s frustrating that diagnoses can be fuzzy. But I think the right reaction to that is to seek out the therapies that work best for your individual kid. The quest for marginal diagnoses that are “not Autism” seems more about avoiding autism and less about actually seeking out what will work for your kid. There are cases of true misdiagnosis or comorbidities, like anxiety, adhd, ocd, depression. But getting caught up in your kid having “SCD but not autism!!” isn’t a super helpful use of energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is my short & sweet experience with the issue:

My son was a late talker and had a tongue tie which made it impossible to make some sounds. Not being able to talk resulted in a speech delay which had a corresponding social/emotional delay. KKI Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician has been seeing him every six months since he was 2.5. He's now 7 w/no ASD suspected, and a complete chatterbox. Still in SPED for supports as he catches up.

I don’t think late talking can cause an actual “emotional delay” that looks the same as autism. Deaf kids have joint attention and responsiveness; kids with down’s syndrome do too. A lot of social communication is non-verbal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my short & sweet experience with the issue:

My son was a late talker and had a tongue tie which made it impossible to make some sounds. Not being able to talk resulted in a speech delay which had a corresponding social/emotional delay. KKI Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician has been seeing him every six months since he was 2.5. He's now 7 w/no ASD suspected, and a complete chatterbox. Still in SPED for supports as he catches up.

I don’t think late talking can cause an actual “emotional delay” that looks the same as autism. Deaf kids have joint attention and responsiveness; kids with down’s syndrome do too. A lot of social communication is non-verbal.

NP here. I agree that expressive language delay cannot cause a social emotional delay, but receptive language delay can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my short & sweet experience with the issue:

My son was a late talker and had a tongue tie which made it impossible to make some sounds. Not being able to talk resulted in a speech delay which had a corresponding social/emotional delay. KKI Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician has been seeing him every six months since he was 2.5. He's now 7 w/no ASD suspected, and a complete chatterbox. Still in SPED for supports as he catches up.

I don’t think late talking can cause an actual “emotional delay” that looks the same as autism. Deaf kids have joint attention and responsiveness; kids with down’s syndrome do too. A lot of social communication is non-verbal.

Early on it can, especially with receptive issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is my short & sweet experience with the issue:

My son was a late talker and had a tongue tie which made it impossible to make some sounds. Not being able to talk resulted in a speech delay which had a corresponding social/emotional delay. KKI Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician has been seeing him every six months since he was 2.5. He's now 7 w/no ASD suspected, and a complete chatterbox. Still in SPED for supports as he catches up.

I don’t think late talking can cause an actual “emotional delay” that looks the same as autism. Deaf kids have joint attention and responsiveness; kids with down’s syndrome do too. A lot of social communication is non-verbal.

NP here. I agree that expressive language delay cannot cause a social emotional delay, but receptive language delay can.

but deaf kids develop joint attention, as do kids with intellectual disabilities. there’s a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to hghly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

DP. I personally think NVLD could be a useful subtype of autism. I have a kid who fits a lot of the NLVD characteristics. That said I’m comfortable with the ASD diagnosis. It’s frustrating that diagnoses can be fuzzy. But I think the right reaction to that is to seek out the therapies that work best for your individual kid. The quest for marginal diagnoses that are “not Autism” seems more about avoiding autism and less about actually seeking out what will work for your kid. There are cases of true misdiagnosis or comorbidities, like anxiety, adhd, ocd, depression. But getting caught up in your kid having “SCD but not autism!!” isn’t a super helpful use of energy.

Not the poster you were responding to but the one before.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. But, I have a dc who has ASD very clearly and another who evaluator said only because of family history are they giving the asd diagnosis. Sure enough as time goes on I do wish I had a better understanding of what challenges the 2nd one faces. He seems to have much higher anxiety than the "clearly asd" child. No one seems to know how to help him in therapy. If I learn that he has problems with big picture thinking or abstract thinking or recognizing patterns in socialization or life in general it might be helpful for a therapist or us parents to help him. The diagnosis asd and anxiety doesn't help understand him whereas it's very helpful for the other child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to hghly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

DP. I personally think NVLD could be a useful subtype of autism. I have a kid who fits a lot of the NLVD characteristics. That said I’m comfortable with the ASD diagnosis. It’s frustrating that diagnoses can be fuzzy. But I think the right reaction to that is to seek out the therapies that work best for your individual kid. The quest for marginal diagnoses that are “not Autism” seems more about avoiding autism and less about actually seeking out what will work for your kid. There are cases of true misdiagnosis or comorbidities, like anxiety, adhd, ocd, depression. But getting caught up in your kid having “SCD but not autism!!” isn’t a super helpful use of energy.

Not the poster you were responding to but the one before.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. But, I have a dc who has ASD very clearly and another who evaluator said only because of family history are they giving the asd diagnosis. Sure enough as time goes on I do wish I had a better understanding of what challenges the 2nd one faces. He seems to have much higher anxiety than the "clearly asd" child. No one seems to know how to help him in therapy. If I learn that he has problems with big picture thinking or abstract thinking or recognizing patterns in socialization or life in general it might be helpful for a therapist or us parents to help him. The diagnosis asd and anxiety doesn't help understand him whereas it's very helpful for the other child.

This is just my rough metric - if kid #2 doesn't have social issues, then I'd start looking at other labels, like anxiety or ADHD or OCD. There are very well-established therapies for anxiety, as well as very effective medications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to hghly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

DP. I personally think NVLD could be a useful subtype of autism. I have a kid who fits a lot of the NLVD characteristics. That said I’m comfortable with the ASD diagnosis. It’s frustrating that diagnoses can be fuzzy. But I think the right reaction to that is to seek out the therapies that work best for your individual kid. The quest for marginal diagnoses that are “not Autism” seems more about avoiding autism and less about actually seeking out what will work for your kid. There are cases of true misdiagnosis or comorbidities, like anxiety, adhd, ocd, depression. But getting caught up in your kid having “SCD but not autism!!” isn’t a super helpful use of energy.

Not the poster you were responding to but the one before.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. But, I have a dc who has ASD very clearly and another who evaluator said only because of family history are they giving the asd diagnosis. Sure enough as time goes on I do wish I had a better understanding of what challenges the 2nd one faces. He seems to have much higher anxiety than the "clearly asd" child. No one seems to know how to help him in therapy. If I learn that he has problems with big picture thinking or abstract thinking or recognizing patterns in socialization or life in general it might be helpful for a therapist or us parents to help him. The diagnosis asd and anxiety doesn't help understand him whereas it's very helpful for the other child.

Sounds like a really bad evaluator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op do you have a neuropsych eval? You may be able to ask the evaluator to consider abstract thinking and pattern recognition to get a better idea of asd vs "something else."

What does abstract thinking and pattern recognition have to do with autism?

DS with ASD scored highest, 99%, on these in the WISC according to his neuropsych eval.

Right. People with ASD score average to hghly in those areas but people with NVLD score on the low end.

Really? When has ASD (or social communication disorder) ever been diagnosed by the WISC which is what you are saying here.

DP. I personally think NVLD could be a useful subtype of autism. I have a kid who fits a lot of the NLVD characteristics. That said I’m comfortable with the ASD diagnosis. It’s frustrating that diagnoses can be fuzzy. But I think the right reaction to that is to seek out the therapies that work best for your individual kid. The quest for marginal diagnoses that are “not Autism” seems more about avoiding autism and less about actually seeking out what will work for your kid. There are cases of true misdiagnosis or comorbidities, like anxiety, adhd, ocd, depression. But getting caught up in your kid having “SCD but not autism!!” isn’t a super helpful use of energy.

Not the poster you were responding to but the one before.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. But, I have a dc who has ASD very clearly and another who evaluator said only because of family history are they giving the asd diagnosis. Sure enough as time goes on I do wish I had a better understanding of what challenges the 2nd one faces. He seems to have much higher anxiety than the "clearly asd" child. No one seems to know how to help him in therapy. If I learn that he has problems with big picture thinking or abstract thinking or recognizing patterns in socialization or life in general it might be helpful for a therapist or us parents to help him. The diagnosis asd and anxiety doesn't help understand him whereas it's very helpful for the other child.

Sounds like a really bad evaluator.

How so?

[Anonymous]

I feel an autism diagnosis doesn’t really offer any help in figuring out how to help a child. My Daughter had a neuropsychological evaluation and her report listed tons of therapies we should get for her (ABA, OT, PT, ST, play and other therapies). We ended up doing OT and social skills groups after trying to get the ones we need. What’s the point of evaluation if there is no specific help offered? I could have gotten the same results with googling and figuring out thinned on my own. I went for an evaluation, because I knew my child has deficits and I hoped I would have been told what’s the best way to help her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel an autism diagnosis doesn’t really offer any help in figuring out how to help a child. My Daughter had a neuropsychological evaluation and her report listed tons of therapies we should get for her (ABA, OT, PT, ST, play and other therapies). We ended up doing OT and social skills groups after trying to get the ones we need. What’s the point of evaluation if there is no specific help offered? I could have gotten the same results with googling and figuring out thinned on my own. I went for an evaluation, because I knew my child has deficits and I hoped I would have been told what’s the best way to help her.

For us, it was only helpful in getting insurance to pay for therapies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel an autism diagnosis doesn’t really offer any help in figuring out how to help a child. My Daughter had a neuropsychological evaluation and her report listed tons of therapies we should get for her (ABA, OT, PT, ST, play and other therapies). We ended up doing OT and social skills groups after trying to get the ones we need. What’s the point of evaluation if there is no specific help offered? I could have gotten the same results with googling and figuring out thinned on my own. I went for an evaluation, because I knew my child has deficits and I hoped I would have been told what’s the best way to help her.

For us, it was only helpful in getting insurance to pay for therapies.

We didn’t do ABA, so OT was paid by insurance based on fine motor delay. It is very frustrating that it seems like the only person, who benefited from the evaluation, was a person performing it.