swim team divisionals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our MCSL team doesn't ask for preferences. They just make the lineup based on what's best for the team. It's possible that families are reaching out to the coach with requested event and I don't know about it, but there's no solicitation of event preference.

I thought the divisional results matter for the overall point totals for which team wins the division (which only results in a team trophy not division placement for next year because that's determined by the virtual meet program).

This. Our coach likes to win. One year that meant my kid did not swim best event at Divisionals. He's a top 5 swimmer in this event at All Stars, but our team was deep in that event compared to others and the team would score slightly more points if my child swam a different event where our other swimmers in the age group weren't as strong.

Unless spots 1-4 at all stars went to other kids on your team, this is extremely difficult to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does individual swimmer performance at divisionals mean anything for team standing? Or is it only about an individual swimmer's rankings?

Curious about whether a coach is motivated to assign slots based on having the best overall outcome for the team or if slots awarded based on top swimmer's preferences only. (New family obviously, essentially wondering if strong swimmers in free or back who are only legal options for breast/fly could be asked to swim those, even if they'd rather do free/back).

It does absolutely nothing for the team. Honestly coached don't really care. Fastest is put in and that is it - some prestige if you can get your kids into All-Stars and that is it.

Division rankings were done after the last A meet.

Coaches make the ultimate decision though. I know of a situation in which a kid had one good race in a stroke and posted a time that was good for 2nd by a tenth of a second or so, but because that kid wasn’t consistently putting that kind of time down the kid in 3rd, who was extremely consistent, got the divisional spot.

Wow, that is really terrible. On our team, the time is the time.

I thought that was the case too. Although I will say the kid never was within a second of their low time during any other race the whole season, and other than the 1 race wasn’t even the 3rd best time.

I could see this is a coach believed the time was an error. We had a kid make the relay team one year based on 1 B meet time that everyone, including the kid's parents, believed was an error.

Overall though, on our team top swimmers get to pick what they want to swim. If a kid has the top time in all 5 events they get to pick the 2 they want to swim at divisionals. Kids pick based on which stroke they prefer or which ones they think they have the best chance of making all stars or placing higher at divisionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does individual swimmer performance at divisionals mean anything for team standing? Or is it only about an individual swimmer's rankings?

Curious about whether a coach is motivated to assign slots based on having the best overall outcome for the team or if slots awarded based on top swimmer's preferences only. (New family obviously, essentially wondering if strong swimmers in free or back who are only legal options for breast/fly could be asked to swim those, even if they'd rather do free/back).

It does absolutely nothing for the team. Honestly coached don't really care. Fastest is put in and that is it - some prestige if you can get your kids into All-Stars and that is it.

Division rankings were done after the last A meet.

Coaches make the ultimate decision though. I know of a situation in which a kid had one good race in a stroke and posted a time that was good for 2nd by a tenth of a second or so, but because that kid wasn’t consistently putting that kind of time down the kid in 3rd, who was extremely consistent, got the divisional spot.

Wow, that is really terrible. On our team, the time is the time.

I thought that was the case too. Although I will say the kid never was within a second of their low time during any other race the whole season, and other than the 1 race wasn’t even the 3rd best time.

I could see this is a coach believed the time was an error. We had a kid make the relay team one year based on 1 B meet time that everyone, including the kid's parents, believed was an error.

Overall though, on our team top swimmers get to pick what they want to swim. If a kid has the top time in all 5 events they get to pick the 2 they want to swim at divisionals. Kids pick based on which stroke they prefer or which ones they think they have the best chance of making all stars or placing higher at divisionals.

We had a similar situation where one kid has a time that was the second fastest, posted in the first meet of the season, but then never swam near that time the rest of the season. The coach gave the second divisionals spot to the third fastest swimmer who was consistently faster than the second fastest kid's time. While the "ladder is the ladder," coaches should be able to get some flexibility for those second spots. Our NVSL team generally works with the ladder though our team rep did sign up one of our 8&u kid to swim breast, which he hated, because he was the top seed and no one else from the team was legal. He was also top in the strokes and theoretically should have had the choice.

[Anonymous]

Depends on league. In PMSL, who wins divisionals can impact standing for the next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our MCSL team doesn't ask for preferences. They just make the lineup based on what's best for the team. It's possible that families are reaching out to the coach with requested event and I don't know about it, but there's no solicitation of event preference.

I thought the divisional results matter for the overall point totals for which team wins the division (which only results in a team trophy not division placement for next year because that's determined by the virtual meet program).

This. Our coach likes to win. One year that meant my kid did not swim best event at Divisionals. He's a top 5 swimmer in this event at All Stars, but our team was deep in that event compared to others and the team would score slightly more points if my child swam a different event where our other swimmers in the age group weren't as strong.

Unless spots 1-4 at all stars went to other kids on your team, this is extremely difficult to believe.

Why is this hard to believe? If the kid is #1 in every event for his age, he may not swim his "best" event at Divisionals if the coach figures out they could score more points by putting him in other events (MCSL viewpoint).

[Anonymous]

In MCSL they don't limit the number of divisionals events per child other than the typical limit for dual meets so there are swimmers doing 4 events at our pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our MCSL team doesn't ask for preferences. They just make the lineup based on what's best for the team. It's possible that families are reaching out to the coach with requested event and I don't know about it, but there's no solicitation of event preference.

I thought the divisional results matter for the overall point totals for which team wins the division (which only results in a team trophy not division placement for next year because that's determined by the virtual meet program).

This. Our coach likes to win. One year that meant my kid did not swim best event at Divisionals. He's a top 5 swimmer in this event at All Stars, but our team was deep in that event compared to others and the team would score slightly more points if my child swam a different event where our other swimmers in the age group weren't as strong.

Unless spots 1-4 at all stars went to other kids on your team, this is extremely difficult to believe.

Why is this hard to believe? If the kid is #1 in every event for his age, he may not swim his "best" event at Divisionals if the coach figures out they could score more points by putting him in other events (MCSL viewpoint).

This is exactly how this happens, especially think of the OP's example of legal strokes (think 10&u age groups). The county all-star freestyler may be swimming the other three strokes instead because Coach wants to be sure to have a legal finisher in each of them.

And like PP is saying, a team can sometimes get the top spots in a race with any two of their top 3-4 swimmers, so you move your most competitive swimmer to a more competitive event to get those points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our MCSL team doesn't ask for preferences. They just make the lineup based on what's best for the team. It's possible that families are reaching out to the coach with requested event and I don't know about it, but there's no solicitation of event preference.

I thought the divisional results matter for the overall point totals for which team wins the division (which only results in a team trophy not division placement for next year because that's determined by the virtual meet program).

This. Our coach likes to win. One year that meant my kid did not swim best event at Divisionals. He's a top 5 swimmer in this event at All Stars, but our team was deep in that event compared to others and the team would score slightly more points if my child swam a different event where our other swimmers in the age group weren't as strong.

Unless spots 1-4 at all stars went to other kids on your team, this is extremely difficult to believe.

You missunderstood. My kid would have won Divisionals in his best stroke, without him the team got 2 and 4th; but in the stroke they moved him to, we get 3 and 4 with him and 4 and 12 without him. Total up the points and it’s better to move him out.

[Anonymous]

Sorry if this takes this off topic, but general question about divisionals for those with more experience: In the younger age groups, do the kids that are ranked near the top going into divisionals generally make it to all stars? Like are the performances pretty consistent with the rankings or is it really a wild card as to who from divisionals ends up in all stars? Right now my kid is ranked high enough to make all stars in their best event if everyone performs consistent with their current ranking. I know anything can happen with little kids, but just wondering whether it is fairly easy to predict who will make all stars just based on pre-divisionals rankings.

I promise I am not asking this because I am super invested in my kid making it to all stars. I'm actually feeling the opposite -- would rather have that weekend open to do something more enjoyable that we were invited to. But I don't want to deny my kid the opportunity to go to all stars if they end up making it. I did not think this would be in the cards at all this season and am honestly not thrilled that we aren't done with meets yet. I want my kid to enjoy the ride but man I want my summer weekends back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this takes this off topic, but general question about divisionals for those with more experience: In the younger age groups, do the kids that are ranked near the top going into divisionals generally make it to all stars? Like are the performances pretty consistent with the rankings or is it really a wild card as to who from divisionals ends up in all stars? Right now my kid is ranked high enough to make all stars in their best event if everyone performs consistent with their current ranking. I know anything can happen with little kids, but just wondering whether it is fairly easy to predict who will make all stars just based on pre-divisionals rankings.

I promise I am not asking this because I am super invested in my kid making it to all stars. I'm actually feeling the opposite -- would rather have that weekend open to do something more enjoyable that we were invited to. But I don't want to deny my kid the opportunity to go to all stars if they end up making it. I did not think this would be in the cards at all this season and am honestly not thrilled that we aren't done with meets yet. I want my kid to enjoy the ride but man I want my summer weekends back.

Pretty unpredictable. I do think kids that swim year around are likely to stay basically the same time. Newbies can drop a ton of time in a week or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this takes this off topic, but general question about divisionals for those with more experience: In the younger age groups, do the kids that are ranked near the top going into divisionals generally make it to all stars? Like are the performances pretty consistent with the rankings or is it really a wild card as to who from divisionals ends up in all stars? Right now my kid is ranked high enough to make all stars in their best event if everyone performs consistent with their current ranking. I know anything can happen with little kids, but just wondering whether it is fairly easy to predict who will make all stars just based on pre-divisionals rankings.

I promise I am not asking this because I am super invested in my kid making it to all stars. I'm actually feeling the opposite -- would rather have that weekend open to do something more enjoyable that we were invited to. But I don't want to deny my kid the opportunity to go to all stars if they end up making it. I did not think this would be in the cards at all this season and am honestly not thrilled that we aren't done with meets yet. I want my kid to enjoy the ride but man I want my summer weekends back.

Pretty unpredictable. I do think kids that swim year around are likely to stay basically the same time. Newbies can drop a ton of time in a week or two.

I agree it’s unpredictable. 8 and unders can be all over the place and year round swimmers may have been stuck swimming in strokes they don’t want (by coaches, for points) and they can elect to swim something new at divisionals and place high. The best way to get a good idea is to change the year from ‘21 to ‘19, ‘18 and ‘17 and also change “all meets” to “ divisionals” and check those times. If your kid’s time is top 12, they’ve got a good shot. You can see from different years, though, that the times vary greatly by year.

For example:

‘19, the last 8 year old boy to make a 25 free had a 17.64 time but in ‘16, it was an 18.02. In 2019, that kid who go the 18th spot with an 18.02 would have been ranked 28th in 2019.

You can all check the times got just dual meets. This year, the 18th kid for the 25 meter free from a meets only is 18.37 but in ‘19 it was a 17.81. It would appear that this year the 8 and unders boys are quite a bit slower in free and making the cut may be easier this year. Again, this is just based on the data we have…and that age group can be very unpredictable.

[Anonymous]

Also, the younger summer-only kids are basically a year behind skill wise since they missed a whole summer of swim team last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, the younger summer-only kids are basically a year behind skill wise since they missed a whole summer of swim team last year.

? Our swim team practiced as normal last year and held virtual meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if this takes this off topic, but general question about divisionals for those with more experience: In the younger age groups, do the kids that are ranked near the top going into divisionals generally make it to all stars? Like are the performances pretty consistent with the rankings or is it really a wild card as to who from divisionals ends up in all stars? Right now my kid is ranked high enough to make all stars in their best event if everyone performs consistent with their current ranking. I know anything can happen with little kids, but just wondering whether it is fairly easy to predict who will make all stars just based on pre-divisionals rankings.

I promise I am not asking this because I am super invested in my kid making it to all stars. I'm actually feeling the opposite -- would rather have that weekend open to do something more enjoyable that we were invited to. But I don't want to deny my kid the opportunity to go to all stars if they end up making it. I did not think this would be in the cards at all this season and am honestly not thrilled that we aren't done with meets yet. I want my kid to enjoy the ride but man I want my summer weekends back.

Pretty unpredictable. I do think kids that swim year around are likely to stay basically the same time. Newbies can drop a ton of time in a week or two.

I agree it’s unpredictable. 8 and unders can be all over the place and year round swimmers may have been stuck swimming in strokes they don’t want (by coaches, for points) and they can elect to swim something new at divisionals and place high. The best way to get a good idea is to change the year from ‘21 to ‘19, ‘18 and ‘17 and also change “all meets” to “ divisionals” and check those times. If your kid’s time is top 12, they’ve got a good shot. You can see from different years, though, that the times vary greatly by year.

For example:

‘19, the last 8 year old boy to make a 25 free had a 17.64 time but in ‘16, it was an 18.02. In 2019, that kid who go the 18th spot with an 18.02 would have been ranked 28th in 2019.

You can all check the times got just dual meets. This year, the 18th kid for the 25 meter free from a meets only is 18.37 but in ‘19 it was a 17.81. It would appear that this year the 8 and unders boys are quite a bit slower in free and making the cut may be easier this year. Again, this is just based on the data we have…and that age group can be very unpredictable.

the last few lanes of all stars may be unpredictable, the first 5-10 are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the younger summer-only kids are basically a year behind skill wise since they missed a whole summer of swim team last year.

? Our swim team practiced as normal last year and held virtual meets.

That’s nice, and unusual around here.
Most swim teams did not have a swim season.