Expansion of Housing Choice Voucher Program in Ward 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has the voucher program for affordable housing been expanded during the pandemic? We live in Ward 3 and have noticed a significant demographic shift in the tenants of some nearby apartments over the last six months or so. I went to check on renting a unit at one for my parents recently and was surprised that they were accepting vouchers. Does anyone have any background on this program?

It’s a bit of a Trojan horse in a place like Ward 3. When a landlord takes a voucher for a rent controlled unit, the unit adjusts to market rate. As there have been challenges in some buildings with a number if voucher tenants, the experience, for example at Sedgwick Gardens, was that some longstanding tenants in rent controlled units them decided to leave. So the landlord enjoys the financial benefit of vouchers that effectively pay market rent, all the while reducing the number of rent control tenants. Then the landlord is in a position to redevelop the entire property into upscale market rate housing. So in the short term, vouchers seem like a good idea, but in the longer term they may reduce the stock of affordable housing in areas like Ward 3.

Pretty slimy of the city to superficially use affordable housing - and more specifically the people who need affordable housing - as pawns for ending rent control.

What's the connection between vouchers and rent control? Units can adjust to market rate whenever anyone moves out of a unit.

I don't think that's true. My understanding is that when a rent control unit goes vacant, I think the landlord can increase rent for the unit up to a maximum of 10% or increase a comparable unit rent up to 30%. Voucher program units are explicitly exempt from rent control.

Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

I stand corrected! Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I own a house in AU Park that I have rented it out on occasion. Whenever I list the house I get dozens of calls asking if I accept vouchers. I always say yes and not a single one of the potential tenants has ever shown up to see the house at their appointment. It is almost as if it is some sort of DC agency simply testing whether or not I accept vouchers.

I have known people who faced lawsuits from the city for merely saying they would prefer not to take them. Seventy four percent of all landlords are small time. These are people who do this either on the side or own 4 or less units etc. the government is placing the burden of affordable housing on the backs of these landlords rather than more so addressing itself. I know this is a forum for housewives to talk about breastfeeding and stuff, and many people are probably root for the “underdog” all the time, but realistically private landlords put themselves out there, take a risk, get eviction moratoriums put on them when they have mortgages to pay, or get section 8 tenants, many of whom damage property, have more people living in the units than are intended, pull out the copper pipes when they leave etc…it’s all about perspective.

Yes. Have seen places trashed over and over. And lots of area law students love to "practice" on behalf of tenants. It is really hard to be a small landlord in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

I know someone who lives in a rent controlled NW apartment. They are exactly the kind of person people say they want "affordable housing" for. At least one of the prototypes - hard working, responsible,.service type job,.could not afford it otherwise, definitely appreciative and add to our city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

I know someone who lives in a rent controlled NW apartment. They are exactly the kind of person people say they want "affordable housing" for. At least one of the prototypes - hard working, responsible,.service type job,.could not afford it otherwise, definitely appreciative and add to our city.

Exactly. And rent controlled housing exists today - it needs to be nurtured, preserved and even expanded. Ward 3 today has the second highest number of rent controlled units in the District, with access to good schools, etc for working class families. Yet when one brings up the importance of rent controlled housing with OP and their allies in the DC Smart Growth industry they get incredibly defensive. They only want to talk about more development and the (paltry) resulting number of IZ units (that aren’t really affordable). It’s like “affordable housing” is just a pretext for them, to build more dense upmarket mixed use in high profit areas of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

I know someone who lives in a rent controlled NW apartment. They are exactly the kind of person people say they want "affordable housing" for. At least one of the prototypes - hard working, responsible,.service type job,.could not afford it otherwise, definitely appreciative and add to our city.

Exactly. And rent controlled housing exists today - it needs to be nurtured, preserved and even expanded. Ward 3 today has the second highest number of rent controlled units in the District, with access to good schools, etc for working class families. Yet when one brings up the importance of rent controlled housing with OP and their allies in the DC Smart Growth industry they get incredibly defensive. They only want to talk about more development and the (paltry) resulting number of IZ units (that aren’t really affordable). It’s like “affordable housing” is just a pretext for them, to build more dense upmarket mixed use in high profit areas of DC.

And there is a reason for that which is that rent control units are not income screened nor are their numbers growing nor is there a mechanism to grow them. It is worth adding one of the other reasons landlords love to convert them to vouchers is because it effectively allows them to raise the rent without investing any money in them - if you've ever checked out any rent controlled buildings most of them are in abysmal condition because the landlord has no incentive to do more than the bare minimum to keep them legal.

What is interesting is that the price for rent control units in Ward 3 at least is not much lower than the market rate for units in older buildings that aren't near Metro - it is not unusual to find a 1 bedroom in an older building on Upper CT or in Glover Park for $1400 a month.

IZ through new construction actually puts new build units into an income restricted program while also delivering badly needed market rate units which reduce the pressure to convert/upgrade existing units.

The problem is that because of NIMBYs hardly any new units are getting built in affluent areas but if they were IZ could relatively quickly catch up to the modest number of rent control units which is actually about 8% of the city total so it is not a high bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

I know someone who lives in a rent controlled NW apartment. They are exactly the kind of person people say they want "affordable housing" for. At least one of the prototypes - hard working, responsible,.service type job,.could not afford it otherwise, definitely appreciative and add to our city.

Exactly. And rent controlled housing exists today - it needs to be nurtured, preserved and even expanded. Ward 3 today has the second highest number of rent controlled units in the District, with access to good schools, etc for working class families. Yet when one brings up the importance of rent controlled housing with OP and their allies in the DC Smart Growth industry they get incredibly defensive. They only want to talk about more development and the (paltry) resulting number of IZ units (that aren’t really affordable). It’s like “affordable housing” is just a pretext for them, to build more dense upmarket mixed use in high profit areas of DC.

And there is a reason for that which is that rent control units are not income screened nor are their numbers growing nor is there a mechanism to grow them. It is worth adding one of the other reasons landlords love to convert them to vouchers is because it effectively allows them to raise the rent without investing any money in them - if you've ever checked out any rent controlled buildings most of them are in abysmal condition because the landlord has no incentive to do more than the bare minimum to keep them legal.

What is interesting is that the price for rent control units in Ward 3 at least is not much lower than the market rate for units in older buildings that aren't near Metro - it is not unusual to find a 1 bedroom in an older building on Upper CT or in Glover Park for $1400 a month.

IZ through new construction actually puts new build units into an income restricted program while also delivering badly needed market rate units which reduce the pressure to convert/upgrade existing units.

The problem is that because of NIMBYs hardly any new units are getting built in affluent areas but if they were IZ could relatively quickly catch up to the modest number of rent control units which is actually about 8% of the city total so it is not a high bar.

My friends love their rent control unit. It's on one of the avenues--a winner location-- and the price is reasonable. The thought of the number of fancy condos needing to be built by the developers you represent for IZs to catch up with rent control is terrifying. I am sorry that as the planet heats you want to turn our cool, shady city into a concrete jungle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Probably because anyone with a knowledge of the economics of rent control beyond "low price good!" knows that study after study shows that rent control actually leads to higher overall rents:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/

https://www.businessinsider.com/does-rent-control-work-no-it-actually-increases-rent-prices-for-most-people-2015-9

https://www.nmhc.org/news/articles/the-high-cost-of-rent-control/

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/rent-control/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My friends love their rent control unit. It's on one of the avenues--a winner location-- and the price is reasonable. The thought of the number of fancy condos needing to be built by the developers you represent for IZs to catch up with rent control is terrifying. I am sorry that as the planet heats you want to turn our cool, shady city into a concrete jungle.

It's always discouraging when people use climate change to justify NIMBYism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has the voucher program for affordable housing been expanded during the pandemic? We live in Ward 3 and have noticed a significant demographic shift in the tenants of some nearby apartments over the last six months or so. I went to check on renting a unit at one for my parents recently and was surprised that they were accepting vouchers. Does anyone have any background on this program?

It’s a bit of a Trojan horse in a place like Ward 3. When a landlord takes a voucher for a rent controlled unit, the unit adjusts to market rate. As there have been challenges in some buildings with a number if voucher tenants, the experience, for example at Sedgwick Gardens, was that some longstanding tenants in rent controlled units them decided to leave. So the landlord enjoys the financial benefit of vouchers that effectively pay market rent, all the while reducing the number of rent control tenants. Then the landlord is in a position to redevelop the entire property into upscale market rate housing. So in the short term, vouchers seem like a good idea, but in the longer term they may reduce the stock of affordable housing in areas like Ward 3.

Pretty slimy of the city to superficially use affordable housing - and more specifically the people who need affordable housing - as pawns for ending rent control.

What's the connection between vouchers and rent control? Units can adjust to market rate whenever anyone moves out of a unit.

this. Folks just want to get mad. Also, if the owner decides to redevelop the tenants can exercise their TOPA rights to organize and buy the property or be bought out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only are voucher program units exempt from rent control, but if a landlord accepts vouchers for a rent controlled unit, it effectively converts the unit to non-rent controlled status going forward. So it’s a nifty deal for certain landlords: higher rents and a permanent reduction in rent controlled units.

It's also a nifty deal for DC which ultimately is pro development, not pro rent control..it's awful to see them use vouchers to undermine existing rent control.

Yes, this is very clear unfortunately. Bowser’s Office of Planning tries to ignore rent controlled units and refuses to acknowledge that they are part of an affordable housing strategy for the District. Instead, their main focus is building ever more dense market rate housing, and they cite the relatively small number of IZ units that would result as “affordable.” It’s really just a pretext for Upzoning neighborhoods. Meanwhile the mayor and OP undermine and reduce the stock of rent controlled housing, the the most significant affordable housing component in expensive areas like Upper NW. They are undermining rent controlled housing through the voucher program and recent DC Comprehensive Plan amendments that incentivize the tear down or conversion of older buildings which contain much of the affordable housing stock. Consequently Bowser’s professed priority to create more affordable housing is definitely one step forward, three steps back.

I've never understood this - it's such a good solution for low income and low middle income workers . Why isn't the city sympathetic to them? They feel they should love in the boonies. City only cares about very rich and very poor? Rent control is wonderful for teachers, single parents etc.

Rent control constrains incumbent real estate investors, so they don't like it. The city is strongly oriented towards satisfying incumbent real estate investors.

I know someone who lives in a rent controlled NW apartment. They are exactly the kind of person people say they want "affordable housing" for. At least one of the prototypes - hard working, responsible,.service type job,.could not afford it otherwise, definitely appreciative and add to our city.

Exactly. And rent controlled housing exists today - it needs to be nurtured, preserved and even expanded. Ward 3 today has the second highest number of rent controlled units in the District, with access to good schools, etc for working class families. Yet when one brings up the importance of rent controlled housing with OP and their allies in the DC Smart Growth industry they get incredibly defensive. They only want to talk about more development and the (paltry) resulting number of IZ units (that aren’t really affordable). It’s like “affordable housing” is just a pretext for them, to build more dense upmarket mixed use in high profit areas of DC.

YOu are either trying to mislead or you are uninformed. Rent control units do almost nothing to deliver affordable housing to low income renters. Rent control is NOT means-tested so anyone of any income can snag a rent contolled unit and hang on to it for an entire life (see NYC). I lived in rent contolled unit for 10 years in DC in a very nice area and my income was over 90k. my place was super cheap but I certainly didnt need rent control.