Alexandria - Duke St - take the survey - more bus lanes, bike lanes, etc...

[Anonymous]

I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

Yes exactly what I think of when they suggest bus lanes. A major investment in something that is not used.

There is just no way to get around the fact that some land, businesses and buildings are going to have to be sacrificed. People driving down Duke towards Old Town have 2 primary destinations - either Old Town itself or the Beltway. They need to divert the Beltway traffic far earlier than they do and with more lanes. It is going to be the only thing that reduces traffic.

People have show over and over that they are not going to take the bus and they aren't going to cycle no matter how many lanes, no matter how many busses and no matter how many bike shares that are set up.

[Anonymous]

I think it's interesting that people are so adamant that buses "aren't used". I definitely use the buses and my teenage kids also use the buses. I also live right off Duke Street, so I'm driving up and down this street a lot, and at anytime of day other than late at night, you can see people waiting at the bus stops, so it's definitely getting used.
I also am a bike rider, so while I currently use the bike path on Eisenhower, I would absolutely love to have a Duke Street bike lane.
I think there are two big issues with Duke Street traffic, that are not made worse by bike and bus lanes.
1. The traffic jam between Quaker Lane and Telegraph exit.
2. The lack of a middle turn lane, which leads to cars coming to a dead stop at random places while attempting to turn left from Duke Street.
Those two things are what needs to be addressed. My preference would be a solution that has dedicated bus/bike lane AND adjustments that would fix the two problems I described above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's interesting that people are so adamant that buses "aren't used". I definitely use the buses and my teenage kids also use the buses. I also live right off Duke Street, so I'm driving up and down this street a lot, and at anytime of day other than late at night, you can see people waiting at the bus stops, so it's definitely getting used.
I also am a bike rider, so while I currently use the bike path on Eisenhower, I would absolutely love to have a Duke Street bike lane.
I think there are two big issues with Duke Street traffic, that are not made worse by bike and bus lanes.
1. The traffic jam between Quaker Lane and Telegraph exit.
2. The lack of a middle turn lane, which leads to cars coming to a dead stop at random places while attempting to turn left from Duke Street.
Those two things are what needs to be addressed. My preference would be a solution that has dedicated bus/bike lane AND adjustments that would fix the two problems I described above.

I agree with your proposals on traffic improvements. However on the bus lane, I think you are confusing opinion with just a statement of what is happening. No one says that it’s not getting used at all, it’s just not getting used sufficiently to justify this investment. You see a people waiting for the bus because it doesn’t run very often because it gets very little use. Transit people will say that if it runs more often, then it will induce more ridership because it will be more convenient. Problem is that when this theory is tested in other contexts, it doesn’t work. There is an actual model to look at, which is Potomac Yard/Crystal City bus. This proposed bus lane is probably inspired by that one. Yet, that bus lane is not exactly a raging success. So…. maybe this one will, but I think it’s right to be skeptical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

Yes exactly what I think of when they suggest bus lanes. A major investment in something that is not used.

There is just no way to get around the fact that some land, businesses and buildings are going to have to be sacrificed. People driving down Duke towards Old Town have 2 primary destinations - either Old Town itself or the Beltway. They need to divert the Beltway traffic far earlier than they do and with more lanes. It is going to be the only thing that reduces traffic.

People have show over and over that they are not going to take the bus and they aren't going to cycle no matter how many lanes, no matter how many busses and no matter how many bike shares that are set up.

People who? Lots of people take the bus, and lots of people use bicycles for transportation. Maybe you just don't see them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

Yes exactly what I think of when they suggest bus lanes. A major investment in something that is not used.

There is just no way to get around the fact that some land, businesses and buildings are going to have to be sacrificed. People driving down Duke towards Old Town have 2 primary destinations - either Old Town itself or the Beltway. They need to divert the Beltway traffic far earlier than they do and with more lanes. It is going to be the only thing that reduces traffic.

People have show over and over that they are not going to take the bus and they aren't going to cycle no matter how many lanes, no matter how many busses and no matter how many bike shares that are set up.

People who? Lots of people take the bus, and lots of people use bicycles for transportation. Maybe you just don't see them.

The question is whether “lots” is enough to justify the investment. Bus lanes have proven not to induce ridership so my view is no, it’s not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

Yes exactly what I think of when they suggest bus lanes. A major investment in something that is not used.

There is just no way to get around the fact that some land, businesses and buildings are going to have to be sacrificed. People driving down Duke towards Old Town have 2 primary destinations - either Old Town itself or the Beltway. They need to divert the Beltway traffic far earlier than they do and with more lanes. It is going to be the only thing that reduces traffic.

People have show over and over that they are not going to take the bus and they aren't going to cycle no matter how many lanes, no matter how many busses and no matter how many bike shares that are set up.

People who? Lots of people take the bus, and lots of people use bicycles for transportation. Maybe you just don't see them.

That's not what WMATA and the City's own data says. The Potomac Yard-Crystal City BRT in March of 2019, was about 2,400 daily. There are definitely more cars on Route one than 2,400 daily.

The responsibility is on the city to show the numbers for bus routes on Duke, which they haven't because they'll show they haven't done their homework, and its a bad idea, but given population is higher at both ends on the above route, there isn't a competing metro, and less traffic, it is certainly not higher, and won't be higher than 2,400 and that's assuming ridership recovers. There are also certainly more car users on Duke than 2,400.

DASH, the city's bus, because I guess they need another bus, is also currently free. If you can't get full or even half ridership when it is free, what does that tell you about the bus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

Yes exactly what I think of when they suggest bus lanes. A major investment in something that is not used.

There is just no way to get around the fact that some land, businesses and buildings are going to have to be sacrificed. People driving down Duke towards Old Town have 2 primary destinations - either Old Town itself or the Beltway. They need to divert the Beltway traffic far earlier than they do and with more lanes. It is going to be the only thing that reduces traffic.

People have show over and over that they are not going to take the bus and they aren't going to cycle no matter how many lanes, no matter how many busses and no matter how many bike shares that are set up.

People who? Lots of people take the bus, and lots of people use bicycles for transportation. Maybe you just don't see them.

That's not what WMATA and the City's own data says. The Potomac Yard-Crystal City BRT in March of 2019, was about 2,400 daily. There are definitely more cars on Route one than 2,400 daily.

The responsibility is on the city to show the numbers for bus routes on Duke, which they haven't because they'll show they haven't done their homework, and its a bad idea, but given population is higher at both ends on the above route, there isn't a competing metro, and less traffic, it is certainly not higher, and won't be higher than 2,400 and that's assuming ridership recovers. There are also certainly more car users on Duke than 2,400.

DASH, the city's bus, because I guess they need another bus, is also currently free. If you can't get full or even half ridership when it is free, what does that tell you about the bus?

It tells me that the service isn't very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

I support the bus lane because we need better transit it our community and it increases equity for those who cannot afford cars. The idea that you would oppose it because it would mildly inconvenience your cycling is something that I just don’t understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

I support the bus lane because we need better transit it our community and it increases equity for those who cannot afford cars. The idea that you would oppose it because it would mildly inconvenience your cycling is something that I just don’t understand.

Getting hit is definitely a “mild” inconvenience. At current ridership levels an $75M, you could buy every bus user on that corridor an electric Vespa, 75,000, in fact if it were all electric scooters. Population of the city is 150,000. Half the city doesn’t transit Duke. No emissions either. Certainly fewer than a gas guzzling bus that is at 10% capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

I support the bus lane because we need better transit it our community and it increases equity for those who cannot afford cars. The idea that you would oppose it because it would mildly inconvenience your cycling is something that I just don’t understand.

Getting hit is definitely a “mild” inconvenience. At current ridership levels an $75M, you could buy every bus user on that corridor an electric Vespa, 75,000, in fact if it were all electric scooters. Population of the city is 150,000. Half the city doesn’t transit Duke. No emissions either. Certainly fewer than a gas guzzling bus that is at 10% capacity.

It’s not just about transit, although that’s important. It’s also about better connecting our community. There could also be the potential for some good mixed use infill development at the strip malls. Let’s build a better community for all and not consider narrow interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

I support the bus lane because we need better transit it our community and it increases equity for those who cannot afford cars. The idea that you would oppose it because it would mildly inconvenience your cycling is something that I just don’t understand.

Getting hit is definitely a “mild” inconvenience. At current ridership levels an $75M, you could buy every bus user on that corridor an electric Vespa, 75,000, in fact if it were all electric scooters. Population of the city is 150,000. Half the city doesn’t transit Duke. No emissions either. Certainly fewer than a gas guzzling bus that is at 10% capacity.

It’s not just about transit, although that’s important. It’s also about better connecting our community. There could also be the potential for some good mixed use infill development at the strip malls. Let’s build a better community for all and not consider narrow interests.

It’s interesting when the cyclists turn into the NIMBYS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

Yeah, that's not competing priorities. There could be bike lanes AND bus lanes, if somebody were willing to reassign some of the road space currently assigned to cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the survey and de prioritized buses. But prioritized intersection and sidewalk improvements. If people are not taking them currently then there would be a use case. Giving them a whole lane of traffic and fancy stops will not encourage more use in the future. Just look at the dedicated lane from Potomac Yard to Crystal City, while it’s nice to see infrastructure improvements of any kind, that thing is not exactly drawing a lot of riders.

If you want to talk about competing priorities, the dedicated bus lane forces cyclists into sharing the single lane with cars from Potomac to Crystal City Drive. Safety...right...

Against signage otherwise, I now encourage everyone to just use the bus lane which is often empty...which they have to share anyway 1000 feet north.

Yeah, that's not competing priorities. There could be bike lanes AND bus lanes, if somebody were willing to reassign some of the road space currently assigned to cars.

Spoken like a planner who hasn’t actually been to this intersection, ridden a bike, or looked a map.

Crystal Drive is one lane each way, and then your precious and empty bus lane. Next are the sidewalks. Would you like the sidewalks too? There isn’t space for everything, which is why cyclists are forced into the car lane, and then back into the bus lane.

If youre so pro bus, and there is a lane here, hand over your car and delete uber.