Realistically, what’s the latest a kid can make the move to an MLS Next/ECNL team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there an unwritten rule on older players being “too old” to begin playing for an elite team MlS Next/ECNL/USL or MLS Academy type team? If so, what is that age? I’ve heard very few players making that jump after u16, but have you seen or known anyone who has? Why would high level teams hold open if sessions if they didn’t plan on inviting players to join? What’s your take an experience on this?

My kid is 15/U16 and just flares a foot over the past 8 months.

He’s a Freshmen and just coming into his own.

If it’s to be talent based, there should be no limit : up to U18/19.

* grew, not flares.

So many boys don’t start showing their true potential until U16/17/18.

Potential for what? By that age, you've long already identified whether they're a decent player. By god, in Europe the kids at 16-18 are already on their way to contracts and potential has to have popped up by 12 to have even entered any academies.

Last part not true. European academies continue to take new kids from outside the system at any age. And as many pros come from outside academies as inside - although obviously your chance of becoming a pro is much higher inside.

Slots in later years are significantly less. Plus "at any age" still means under the age of 16-17, which is well before the alleged blossoming period stated here by PP for US boys. So the point above was to the comment above saying that "So many boys don't start showing their true potential until U16/17/18". That's just not true. That's pretty late in an athletic career and you're not just getting your engines running at 18. You've been passed up at that point if you didn't have talent prior.

I agree with that. I have never seen a kid suddenly show real ability at U16/17/18 where potential was not previously apparent.

I’ve seen really good players that for whatever reason not get picked for elite teams young, come back after being away bigger and better. I think potential was always there. But mostly the early developers, early birth months have the advantage which then can become eclipsed when other kids catch up, particularly if they were smarter players w/ high IQ and great technical skill. Obtaining that testosterone/pounds and inches brings it all together. They gain the speed too.

I think this is what people mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there an unwritten rule on older players being “too old” to begin playing for an elite team MlS Next/ECNL/USL or MLS Academy type team? If so, what is that age? I’ve heard very few players making that jump after u16, but have you seen or known anyone who has? Why would high level teams hold open if sessions if they didn’t plan on inviting players to join? What’s your take an experience on this?

My kid is 15/U16 and just flares a foot over the past 8 months.

He’s a Freshmen and just coming into his own.

If it’s to be talent based, there should be no limit : up to U18/19.

* grew, not flares.

So many boys don’t start showing their true potential until U16/17/18.

Potential for what? By that age, you've long already identified whether they're a decent player. By god, in Europe the kids at 16-18 are already on their way to contracts and potential has to have popped up by 12 to have even entered any academies.

Last part not true. European academies continue to take new kids from outside the system at any age. And as many pros come from outside academies as inside - although obviously your chance of becoming a pro is much higher inside.

Slots in later years are significantly less. Plus "at any age" still means under the age of 16-17, which is well before the alleged blossoming period stated here by PP for US boys. So the point above was to the comment above saying that "So many boys don't start showing their true potential until U16/17/18". That's just not true. That's pretty late in an athletic career and you're not just getting your engines running at 18. You've been passed up at that point if you didn't have talent prior.

I agree with that. I have never seen a kid suddenly show real ability at U16/17/18 where potential was not previously apparent.

I’ve seen really good players that for whatever reason not get picked for elite teams young, come back after being away bigger and better. I think potential was always there. But mostly the early developers, early birth months have the advantage which then can become eclipsed when other kids catch up, particularly if they were smarter players w/ high IQ and great technical skill. Obtaining that testosterone/pounds and inches brings it all together. They gain the speed too.

I think this is what people mean.

I know what people mean but it's nearly all pipedreams and hopium. 19 times out of 20 the best kids are the best kids before puberty and afterwards. If you start at age 5 or 6, then yes things change because a five year old is a long way behind a 6 year old in development so birth month really matters.

But, past about seven or eight things are pretty well set. The best kids at 11 are the best kids at 18. The top 5 are still very likely the top 5. Sure - maybe #3 swapped places with #4 somewhere along that timeline - but #35 did not turn into #1 or even #10.

Now I would also agree that good players don't always get identified and selected - but that's far more often a failure in the selection process at that time than the kid improving dramatically later.

And none of this is 100% true. Of course there are exceptions. But that's what they are - rare exceptions - not the rule.

[Anonymous]

^ certainly not. The best kids at 11 are not usually the best at 11. Rosters at our Club later on (with everyone still there) reflect this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ certainly not. The best kids at 11 are not usually the best at 11. Rosters at our Club later on (with everyone still there) reflect this.

Ha! So true. We have had kids move up from the 4th team in middle school and dominate. A lot is coaches early on don’t know wtf they are looking at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ certainly not. The best kids at 11 are not usually the best at 11. Rosters at our Club later on (with everyone still there) reflect this.

Ha! So true. We have had kids move up from the 4th team in middle school and dominate. A lot is coaches early on don’t know wtf they are looking at.

Some is that development isn’t a linear line.

[Anonymous]

I would say you'd want to get your kid in at U14 at the latest. But your kid has to have better than average speed, foot skills and decision making. And hopefully your kid has made it through puberty which helps but not absolutely necessary. I know my DS's U13 coach favors bigger kids over smaller ones as the coach is bringing bigger kids to tryout, but it's a fine line doing this cause they might make a difference now cause of their size, but when all the boys get through puberty they might just be average players. Your kid will have to stand out at the tryouts and make an impact on the game. If that's not happening the coaching staff won't look your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say you'd want to get your kid in at U14 at the latest. But your kid has to have better than average speed, foot skills and decision making. And hopefully your kid has made it through puberty which helps but not absolutely necessary. I know my DS's U13 coach favors bigger kids over smaller ones as the coach is bringing bigger kids to tryout, but it's a fine line doing this cause they might make a difference now cause of their size, but when all the boys get through puberty they might just be average players. Your kid will have to stand out at the tryouts and make an impact on the game. If that's not happening the coaching staff won't look your way.

Lol. It was U16 (late Bday) before my oldest had his first major growth spurt. Unfortunately, we grow late. It does help my kids develop their mind and footskills because of that disadvantage and to be tough. Sometimes the disadvantage ultimately will turn into a major advantage down the road if they hang in the game. The physical ones masked a lot of deficiency getting by with just size for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say you'd want to get your kid in at U14 at the latest. But your kid has to have better than average speed, foot skills and decision making. And hopefully your kid has made it through puberty which helps but not absolutely necessary. I know my DS's U13 coach favors bigger kids over smaller ones as the coach is bringing bigger kids to tryout, but it's a fine line doing this cause they might make a difference now cause of their size, but when all the boys get through puberty they might just be average players. Your kid will have to stand out at the tryouts and make an impact on the game. If that's not happening the coaching staff won't look your way.

Lol. It was U16 (late Bday) before my oldest had his first major growth spurt. Unfortunately, we grow late. It does help my kids develop their mind and footskills because of that disadvantage and to be tough. Sometimes the disadvantage ultimately will turn into a major advantage down the road if they hang in the game. The physical ones masked a lot of deficiency getting by with just size for years.

Totally agree, my kid is in that situation now, quick, great foothills, great decision making, can create on his own, ambidextrous left and right and was a big impact in U12 in 9v9 smaller field and was smallest on his team. Come U13 11v11, bigger field, kids hitting puberty early and he's the smallest on the field, new position and he's not making an impact as much. I know when gets through puberty which will probably be very late he will stand out again if he continues to play after getting through that growth spurt.

I just think U14 at the latest is where you need to tryout for ECNL/MLS Next to see where your kid really stands against the competition. And help your kid figure out what they need to do to standout and i.pact the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say you'd want to get your kid in at U14 at the latest. But your kid has to have better than average speed, foot skills and decision making. And hopefully your kid has made it through puberty which helps but not absolutely necessary. I know my DS's U13 coach favors bigger kids over smaller ones as the coach is bringing bigger kids to tryout, but it's a fine line doing this cause they might make a difference now cause of their size, but when all the boys get through puberty they might just be average players. Your kid will have to stand out at the tryouts and make an impact on the game. If that's not happening the coaching staff won't look your way.

Lol. It was U16 (late Bday) before my oldest had his first major growth spurt. Unfortunately, we grow late. It does help my kids develop their mind and footskills because of that disadvantage and to be tough. Sometimes the disadvantage ultimately will turn into a major advantage down the road if they hang in the game. The physical ones masked a lot of deficiency getting by with just size for years.

Totally agree, my kid is in that situation now, quick, great foothills, great decision making, can create on his own, ambidextrous left and right and was a big impact in U12 in 9v9 smaller field and was smallest on his team. Come U13 11v11, bigger field, kids hitting puberty early and he's the smallest on the field, new position and he's not making an impact as much. I know when gets through puberty which will probably be very late he will stand out again if he continues to play after getting through that growth spurt.

I just think U14 at the latest is where you need to tryout for ECNL/MLS Next to see where your kid really stands against the competition. And help your kid figure out what they need to do to standout and i.pact the game.

I'm the one you responded to and agree with all of this.

Btw, my younger son is a U13 and now going through exactly what you describe. Since I saw this play out with my older son, it's easier to take. You just need to protect his self-confidence and interest. IF you are in a place where the coach starts only playing the big kids and your kid is marginalized (which I will admit if I wanted to win I'd do the same), you need to move your kid. In our case, it was really just the first year on the big field. By U14, he was able to adjust his play and playing in the center---long speed/long legs was less important than it would have been in the outside positions. He was quick and agile so could move the ball quickly and was fast in smaller distance---the full field speed came after he caught up in growth.

[Anonymous]

you can move up to or move down from any team any time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say you'd want to get your kid in at U14 at the latest. But your kid has to have better than average speed, foot skills and decision making. And hopefully your kid has made it through puberty which helps but not absolutely necessary. I know my DS's U13 coach favors bigger kids over smaller ones as the coach is bringing bigger kids to tryout, but it's a fine line doing this cause they might make a difference now cause of their size, but when all the boys get through puberty they might just be average players. Your kid will have to stand out at the tryouts and make an impact on the game. If that's not happening the coaching staff won't look your way.

Lol. It was U16 (late Bday) before my oldest had his first major growth spurt. Unfortunately, we grow late. It does help my kids develop their mind and footskills because of that disadvantage and to be tough. Sometimes the disadvantage ultimately will turn into a major advantage down the road if they hang in the game. The physical ones masked a lot of deficiency getting by with just size for years.

Totally agree, my kid is in that situation now, quick, great foothills, great decision making, can create on his own, ambidextrous left and right and was a big impact in U12 in 9v9 smaller field and was smallest on his team. Come U13 11v11, bigger field, kids hitting puberty early and he's the smallest on the field, new position and he's not making an impact as much. I know when gets through puberty which will probably be very late he will stand out again if he continues to play after getting through that growth spurt.

I just think U14 at the latest is where you need to tryout for ECNL/MLS Next to see where your kid really stands against the competition. And help your kid figure out what they need to do to standout and i.pact the game.

I'm the one you responded to and agree with all of this.

Btw, my younger son is a U13 and now going through exactly what you describe. Since I saw this play out with my older son, it's easier to take. You just need to protect his self-confidence and interest. IF you are in a place where the coach starts only playing the big kids and your kid is marginalized (which I will admit if I wanted to win I'd do the same), you need to move your kid. In our case, it was really just the first year on the big field. By U14, he was able to adjust his play and playing in the center---long speed/long legs was less important than it would have been in the outside positions. He was quick and agile so could move the ball quickly and was fast in smaller distance---the full field speed came after he caught up in growth.

Why would I have to move him? He is still effective in the middle getting the ball out quick which has gotten a lot of plays started.

[Anonymous]

^ you don’t

if it got to the point he wasn’t able to do that and the influx of large kids increased.

If he’s hanging in there and being effective and getting play time- it’s fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there an unwritten rule on older players being “too old” to begin playing for an elite team MlS Next/ECNL/USL or MLS Academy type team? If so, what is that age? I’ve heard very few players making that jump after u16, but have you seen or known anyone who has? Why would high level teams hold open if sessions if they didn’t plan on inviting players to join? What’s your take an experience on this?

My kid is 15/U16 and just flares a foot over the past 8 months.

He’s a Freshmen and just coming into his own.

If it’s to be talent based, there should be no limit : up to U18/19.

* grew, not flares.

So many boys don’t start showing their true potential until U16/17/18.

Potential for what? By that age, you've long already identified whether they're a decent player. By god, in Europe the kids at 16-18 are already on their way to contracts and potential has to have popped up by 12 to have even entered any academies.

Last part not true. European academies continue to take new kids from outside the system at any age. And as many pros come from outside academies as inside - although obviously your chance of becoming a pro is much higher inside.

Slots in later years are significantly less. Plus "at any age" still means under the age of 16-17, which is well before the alleged blossoming period stated here by PP for US boys. So the point above was to the comment above saying that "So many boys don't start showing their true potential until U16/17/18". That's just not true. That's pretty late in an athletic career and you're not just getting your engines running at 18. You've been passed up at that point if you didn't have talent prior.

I agree with that. I have never seen a kid suddenly show real ability at U16/17/18 where potential was not previously apparent.

I’ve seen really good players that for whatever reason not get picked for elite teams young, come back after being away bigger and better. I think potential was always there. But mostly the early developers, early birth months have the advantage which then can become eclipsed when other kids catch up, particularly if they were smarter players w/ high IQ and great technical skill. Obtaining that testosterone/pounds and inches brings it all together. They gain the speed too.

I think this is what people mean.

I know what people mean but it's nearly all pipedreams and hopium. 19 times out of 20 the best kids are the best kids before puberty and afterwards. If you start at age 5 or 6, then yes things change because a five year old is a long way behind a 6 year old in development so birth month really matters.

But, past about seven or eight things are pretty well set. The best kids at 11 are the best kids at 18. The top 5 are still very likely the top 5. Sure - maybe #3 swapped places with #4 somewhere along that timeline - but #35 did not turn into #1 or even #10.

Now I would also agree that good players don't always get identified and selected - but that's far more often a failure in the selection process at that time than the kid improving dramatically later.

And none of this is 100% true. Of course there are exceptions. But that's what they are - rare exceptions - not the rule.

This doesn’t account for the changes in dedication to the sport. There is a kid on ds’ team who has always been a mediocre kid since u10 but never really took the sport seriously. He started on an ODSL team and then went to NCSL, but would only play during team practice and games. Around u13-u14 he became very serious about soccer and does private training, athletic training, technical training (yes he’s privileged) and basically gets 12-15 hours a week as a 13 year old. His development skyrocketed so much in 1 season that he is now being IDed by VDA.

Sometimes kids just don’t get serious either and then one year go all in and became very talented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is there an unwritten rule on older players being “too old” to begin playing for an elite team MlS Next/ECNL/USL or MLS Academy type team? If so, what is that age? I’ve heard very few players making that jump after u16, but have you seen or known anyone who has? Why would high level teams hold open if sessions if they didn’t plan on inviting players to join? What’s your take an experience on this?

My kid is 15/U16 and just flares a foot over the past 8 months.

He’s a Freshmen and just coming into his own.

If it’s to be talent based, there should be no limit : up to U18/19.

* grew, not flares.

So many boys don’t start showing their true potential until U16/17/18.

Potential for what? By that age, you've long already identified whether they're a decent player. By god, in Europe the kids at 16-18 are already on their way to contracts and potential has to have popped up by 12 to have even entered any academies.

Last part not true. European academies continue to take new kids from outside the system at any age. And as many pros come from outside academies as inside - although obviously your chance of becoming a pro is much higher inside.

Slots in later years are significantly less. Plus "at any age" still means under the age of 16-17, which is well before the alleged blossoming period stated here by PP for US boys. So the point above was to the comment above saying that "So many boys don't start showing their true potential until U16/17/18". That's just not true. That's pretty late in an athletic career and you're not just getting your engines running at 18. You've been passed up at that point if you didn't have talent prior.

I agree with that. I have never seen a kid suddenly show real ability at U16/17/18 where potential was not previously apparent.

I’ve seen really good players that for whatever reason not get picked for elite teams young, come back after being away bigger and better. I think potential was always there. But mostly the early developers, early birth months have the advantage which then can become eclipsed when other kids catch up, particularly if they were smarter players w/ high IQ and great technical skill. Obtaining that testosterone/pounds and inches brings it all together. They gain the speed too.

I think this is what people mean.

I know what people mean but it's nearly all pipedreams and hopium. 19 times out of 20 the best kids are the best kids before puberty and afterwards. If you start at age 5 or 6, then yes things change because a five year old is a long way behind a 6 year old in development so birth month really matters.

But, past about seven or eight things are pretty well set. The best kids at 11 are the best kids at 18. The top 5 are still very likely the top 5. Sure - maybe #3 swapped places with #4 somewhere along that timeline - but #35 did not turn into #1 or even #10.

Now I would also agree that good players don't always get identified and selected - but that's far more often a failure in the selection process at that time than the kid improving dramatically later.

And none of this is 100% true. Of course there are exceptions. But that's what they are - rare exceptions - not the rule.

This doesn’t account for the changes in dedication to the sport. There is a kid on ds’ team who has always been a mediocre kid since u10 but never really took the sport seriously. He started on an ODSL team and then went to NCSL, but would only play during team practice and games. Around u13-u14 he became very serious about soccer and does private training, athletic training, technical training (yes he’s privileged) and basically gets 12-15 hours a week as a 13 year old. His development skyrocketed so much in 1 season that he is now being IDed by VDA.

Sometimes kids just don’t get serious either and then one year go all in and became very talented.

That’s cause VDA sells bench spots as well.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the quality of the team; if your DC brings value and/or removes value from another club, then your DC would probably get an offer.

But coaches are incredibly biased people, especially if their team is successful.