APS - 2nd graders CoGat Test - how does it impact 3rd grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The score alone does not equal identification. It places your child in the pool. I’m an APS teacher. We also have students who are in the pool because of teacher or parent referrals. Teachers have to provide evidence to support (or not support) students being identified no matter how they ended up in the screening pool. We tend to be on the generous side of supporting identification but not every student in the pool ends up being identified.

How are teachers supposed to determine this given the circumstances? The teachers barely know my child with DL. They haven't been doing much small group instruction and my kid doesn't speak up in a big virtual class.

Did your teacher give you a survey to fill out?

No. Does the survey come before or after the screening test?

We got it before, but the teacher referred him for gifted services. I would agree with another poster that it doesn’t seem to matter much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The score alone does not equal identification. It places your child in the pool. I’m an APS teacher. We also have students who are in the pool because of teacher or parent referrals. Teachers have to provide evidence to support (or not support) students being identified no matter how they ended up in the screening pool. We tend to be on the generous side of supporting identification but not every student in the pool ends up being identified.

Thank you for saying "we tend to be on the generous side".

Statistically, 25% of McK ele cannot be "gifted" but they report that stat and yes, both of my kids are cardinals! Cheep Cheep. (my kids are bright but McK's ID rate is astounding). A few other NARL schools have the same or similar rates. CoGAT was 136 and the vp was telling me what a great score it was so I asked about the test. It's like 6-10 questions in each section. Not robust IMO but APS is what it is.

I totally hear all of you with a 2nd grader now. The test won't be given in it's standard form. The kids won't be in their standard ed environment and won't have been for the past year. I assume the grades will be re-normed this year (lower) but not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

It’s not the identification itself that matters, it’s the guaranteed extension and enrichment opportunities. That affects what kind of regular work they do, and the complexity of the reading and writing they do in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The score alone does not equal identification. It places your child in the pool. I’m an APS teacher. We also have students who are in the pool because of teacher or parent referrals. Teachers have to provide evidence to support (or not support) students being identified no matter how they ended up in the screening pool. We tend to be on the generous side of supporting identification but not every student in the pool ends up being identified.

Thank you for saying "we tend to be on the generous side".

Statistically, 25% of McK ele cannot be "gifted" but they report that stat and yes, both of my kids are cardinals! Cheep Cheep. (my kids are bright but McK's ID rate is astounding). A few other NARL schools have the same or similar rates. CoGAT was 136 and the vp was telling me what a great score it was so I asked about the test. It's like 6-10 questions in each section. Not robust IMO but APS is what it is.

I totally hear all of you with a 2nd grader now. The test won't be given in it's standard form. The kids won't be in their standard ed environment and won't have been for the past year. I assume the grades will be re-normed this year (lower) but not sure.

It isn't really that tough to get a 120 on the Cogat or the NNAT in this area-- Arlington Co has the largest % of people with advanced degrees of almost any county in the country. Parents around here are going to have smart kids. Most kids in the class, whether IDd or not, can handle more challenging work than APS provides. I wish parents were more focused on advocating to fix APS academics generally rather than fighting to get their kid tagged as GT. And I say this as a parent with a kid who is tagged. It is a race to nowhere, because APS middle school is SO BORING for all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

It’s not the identification itself that matters, it’s the guaranteed extension and enrichment opportunities. That affects what kind of regular work they do, and the complexity of the reading and writing they do in school.

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

It’s not the identification itself that matters, it’s the guaranteed extension and enrichment opportunities. That affects what kind of regular work they do, and the complexity of the reading and writing they do in school.

I agree - without these opportunities, kids are going to be stuck doing low standard math over and over again. I think it's crazy that (at least under virtual learning), our 2nd grader is stuck doing 1st grade math and then, one fine day, they get smacked with a CML test which is a a huge jump in standards, then get frustrated and discouraged. The Gold Star challenges help, but the instruction is too basic. There is a gap between learning and doing. If this year's CogAT is used to determine some degree of aptitude in each student, and also used to identify students who need help, then it's helpful. It shouldn't be just focusing on advanced learners.

[Anonymous]

Anyone know how long it usually takes to get results?

[Anonymous]

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect

Actually I’m not. I have one kid who was identified in math only and one who was identified in all academic areas. The one identified in all areas receives on a daily basis extension activities that she is expected to complete. The older one may have been offered extension activities in non math subjects, but there was little expectation that they would be completed. They were optional for him (except in math). The younger one also receives more detailed and challenging rubrics for many projects than is standard. I frequently see mention of “just an extra packet” when the topic of APS gifted services pops up on dcum, and I’m sorry that was your kids’ disappointing experience. That experience may have been due to differences in specific schools and/or gifted resource teachers. My kids have been at two different elementary schools, two middles, and the older one is now in high school. They get more than packets, math and reading small groups, and accelerated math come middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect

Actually I’m not. I have one kid who was identified in math only and one who was identified in all academic areas. The one identified in all areas receives on a daily basis extension activities that she is expected to complete. The older one may have been offered extension activities in non math subjects, but there was little expectation that they would be completed. They were optional for him (except in math). The younger one also receives more detailed and challenging rubrics for many projects than is standard. I frequently see mention of “just an extra packet” when the topic of APS gifted services pops up on dcum, and I’m sorry that was your kids’ disappointing experience. That experience may have been due to differences in specific schools and/or gifted resource teachers. My kids have been at two different elementary schools, two middles, and the older one is now in high school. They get more than packets, math and reading small groups, and accelerated math come middle school.

Interesting perspective. I'm an APS teacher and parent and this has not been my experience teaching at 2 different APS elementary schools while my own children have attended 3 different APS schools and are identified. Perhaps it has to do with the number of students identified. I've only ever seen one RTG per school level and there just isn't enough of this person to go around and provide services at the level you are describing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect

Actually I’m not. I have one kid who was identified in math only and one who was identified in all academic areas. The one identified in all areas receives on a daily basis extension activities that she is expected to complete. The older one may have been offered extension activities in non math subjects, but there was little expectation that they would be completed. They were optional for him (except in math). The younger one also receives more detailed and challenging rubrics for many projects than is standard. I frequently see mention of “just an extra packet” when the topic of APS gifted services pops up on dcum, and I’m sorry that was your kids’ disappointing experience. That experience may have been due to differences in specific schools and/or gifted resource teachers. My kids have been at two different elementary schools, two middles, and the older one is now in high school. They get more than packets, math and reading small groups, and accelerated math come middle school.

Interesting perspective. I'm an APS teacher and parent and this has not been my experience teaching at 2 different APS elementary schools while my own children have attended 3 different APS schools and are identified. Perhaps it has to do with the number of students identified. I've only ever seen one RTG per school level and there just isn't enough of this person to go around and provide services at the level you are describing.

Thank you. My two have gone to two and yes, it's one RTG. In one school for 800! In the other it's a bit more reasonable but the extension isn't much.

To the person with a 2nd grader upthread. Mine is doing a 3rd grade workbook with me at home and we turn in that instead of the math packets/see saw work. We didn't ask and they didn't tell me to stop. She's in a small group who sees the RTG but even that's too easy. I match the work from the workbook to the packet so it's the same stuff, just appropriate to her math level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect

Actually I’m not. I have one kid who was identified in math only and one who was identified in all academic areas. The one identified in all areas receives on a daily basis extension activities that she is expected to complete. The older one may have been offered extension activities in non math subjects, but there was little expectation that they would be completed. They were optional for him (except in math). The younger one also receives more detailed and challenging rubrics for many projects than is standard. I frequently see mention of “just an extra packet” when the topic of APS gifted services pops up on dcum, and I’m sorry that was your kids’ disappointing experience. That experience may have been due to differences in specific schools and/or gifted resource teachers. My kids have been at two different elementary schools, two middles, and the older one is now in high school. They get more than packets, math and reading small groups, and accelerated math come middle school.

Can you please name the schools? This would be helpful for other parents.

[Anonymous]

We received the letter saying he was identified in all 4 areas at the end of K, and he's been getting some gifted services (small group pull out, etc.) but nothing in ParentVue indicates that he is receiving the service. Is it supposed to be that way? When he goes to middle school, will the school know he is eligible for the gifted service?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

It’s not the identification itself that matters, it’s the guaranteed extension and enrichment opportunities. That affects what kind of regular work they do, and the complexity of the reading and writing they do in school.

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect.

This. My current fifth grader has slipped through the cracks in terms of being identified -- she was above the cutoff for the NNAT but they said that she wasn't selected then (I didn't push it so not sure what the story was there), and she was way above the cutoff for the COGAT (I think she scored 150ish, she was in the 99% for everything) but then COVID happened. I was going to let it go, but her teacher said that we should try to get her flagged so she doesn't get put in a lower math track. Every time I've brought up the whole gt thing at conferences in elementary school, her teachers have said that they have her in the class with the cluster of gifted students so she gets the same enrichment, so there was no additional benefit to having her classified. They do a push in model so all the kids in that class get some time with the rtg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the school letter stating that all 2nd graders are given the chance for Cogat test. What happens when DC gets her scores - does it impact the kind of class she will be in 3rd grade? Or is it for the grouping of students for differentiated instruction in the future? Wouldn't school tests/Dreambox/Lexia work be sufficient for gauging? What implications do these tests have on current 2nd graders?

I say this as a parent of a 9th grader and 12th grader .... it doesn't matter. Smart kids are smart kids and what they do or what they are called in 2nd and 3rd grade doesn't matter. Or 4th grade. Maybe 5th, but it matters more who their regular teacher is and what kinds of regular work and feedback they are getting (how much reading and writing they do, mostly) than whether they are "identified as gifted" or pushed ahead in math. Seriously. People need to take it down a notch.

It’s not the identification itself that matters, it’s the guaranteed extension and enrichment opportunities. That affects what kind of regular work they do, and the complexity of the reading and writing they do in school.

You are overestimating the amount of extension and enrichment. In my grade level it is an extra math packet for those who finish the math work early, and once weekly for 20 minutes each small group with the RTG in math and/or reading. That's it. It's not as much as you think and it matters less than you think.

The only case where it really makes a difference is that SOME (not all) identified kids go on the advanced math track to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade so they are a year ahead of most other APS students in the math pathway. That is truly the only difference/advantage that has any lasting effect.

This. My current fifth grader has slipped through the cracks in terms of being identified -- she was above the cutoff for the NNAT but they said that she wasn't selected then (I didn't push it so not sure what the story was there), and she was way above the cutoff for the COGAT (I think she scored 150ish, she was in the 99% for everything) but then COVID happened. I was going to let it go, but her teacher said that we should try to get her flagged so she doesn't get put in a lower math track. Every time I've brought up the whole gt thing at conferences in elementary school, her teachers have said that they have her in the class with the cluster of gifted students so she gets the same enrichment, so there was no additional benefit to having her classified. They do a push in model so all the kids in that class get some time with the rtg.

In Arlington, I think the Assistant Principal has the magic power. Contact her.