If all testing goes away, how will students know where to apply?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores don’t tell schools much. I hope they go away.

GPA does tell a ton no matter how rigorous your school is.

Test scores tell you that a kid has a certain level of proficiency and math and has a certain level of literacy. There are going to be kids who have good looking GPAs coming out of terrible high schools getting into elite schools and promptly failing out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think this is a significant issue. With no score, a kid with 6-8 APs and a GPA anywhere from (loosely!!) 3.8-4.0 cannot guess what their chances are like at any school in the top 50, beyond the obvious that a top 10 will be a bigger reach. The GPA range is too narrow, and it is compounded by the fact that GPAs are not standardized and cannot be equated across high schools. High school students will struggle to understand how they compare, where they fit - this is already happening with class of 2021, thus the increase in apps to hedge one's bets.

To add to this, the uncertainty increases further down as well. The kid with the 3.7 will have a tough time figuring this out as well, because the context of the GPA matters so much, and the comparative context - that of other applicants high schools - is not at all obvious to the high school student. They can't just look that up on the Common Data Set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t test scores the number one way for students to understand if they qualify for a university? Without them, how will a student choose? GPA can’t be used because high schools use different scales. Course rigor also varies between schools. Do the number of AP classes and their scores become the new placement proxy? It seems challenging to benchmark ECs and many of the most selective schools don’t care about them unless you’re a recruiter athlete. Right now, it seems like both colleges and students are betting that testing does NOT go away so that both can select each other. Thoughts?

GPA can be used, is being used, and has been used. Most colleges know that schools use different scales and have different degrees of rigor.

[Anonymous]

Next step: abandon the use of GPA so they can do whatever they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next step: abandon the use of GPA so they can do whatever they want.

In some ways, they already have. Many top 20 schools do not report GPA data on their Common Data Sets, especially "average" GPA, and/or there is no real consistency with how what they do report is calculated - which actually makes sense, at least to me, due to the lack of standardization (GIGO).

[Anonymous]

Students will (hopefully) apply to colleges that are the right fit for them based on things like:

major
urban\suburban\rural
Sports, intramurals, clubs
Small, medium, large student body
amenities
distance from home
networking & opportunities
social - parties, frats
dorms
walkability

Also colleges will still recruit students. So maybe instead of only recruiting athletes or academic superstars they will look to balance the student body:

- increasing students from rural communities, the pacific coast, or specific states
- filling the 10 spots available in the culinary arts
- recruit students that played a musical instrument
- focusing on C students because they have a strong support network or even students that are the first in their families to go to college or ELL students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students will (hopefully) apply to colleges that are the right fit for them based on things like:

major
urban\suburban\rural
Sports, intramurals, clubs
Small, medium, large student body
amenities
distance from home
networking & opportunities
social - parties, frats
dorms
walkability

Also colleges will still recruit students. So maybe instead of only recruiting athletes or academic superstars they will look to balance the student body:

- increasing students from rural communities, the pacific coast, or specific states
- filling the 10 spots available in the culinary arts
- recruit students that played a musical instrument
- focusing on C students because they have a strong support network or even students that are the first in their families to go to college or ELL students

But nothing you’ve listed has to do with educational rigor. Most parents don’t want to pay $80k x 4 for a country club or a playground experience. Believe me, something will emerge that will be a type of ranking/selectivity indicator because competitive students, parents, employers, and even better colleges will demand it. The worst would be some non-transparent system that no one acknowledges but actually controls admission. In sum, we need some time of standardized credential for ACADEMIC RIGOR with a curve for socioeconomic context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t test scores the number one way for students to understand if they qualify for a university? Without them, how will a student choose? GPA can’t be used because high schools use different scales. Course rigor also varies between schools. Do the number of AP classes and their scores become the new placement proxy? It seems challenging to benchmark ECs and many of the most selective schools don’t care about them unless you’re a recruiter athlete. Right now, it seems like both colleges and students are betting that testing does NOT go away so that both can select each other. Thoughts?

GPA can be used, is being used, and has been used. Most colleges know that schools use different scales and have different degrees of rigor.

But just because the schools know how to evaluate GPAs in the context of different schools doesn't mean the students will and will know how to create their application list accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students will (hopefully) apply to colleges that are the right fit for them based on things like:

major
urban\suburban\rural
Sports, intramurals, clubs
Small, medium, large student body
amenities
distance from home
networking & opportunities
social - parties, frats
dorms
walkability

Also colleges will still recruit students. So maybe instead of only recruiting athletes or academic superstars they will look to balance the student body:

- increasing students from rural communities, the pacific coast, or specific states
- filling the 10 spots available in the culinary arts
- recruit students that played a musical instrument
- focusing on C students because they have a strong support network or even students that are the first in their families to go to college or ELL students

But nothing you’ve listed has to do with educational rigor. Most parents don’t want to pay $80k x 4 for a country club or a playground experience. Believe me, something will emerge that will be a type of ranking/selectivity indicator because competitive students, parents, employers, and even better colleges will demand it. The worst would be some non-transparent system that no one acknowledges but actually controls admission. In sum, we need some time of standardized credential for ACADEMIC RIGOR with a curve for socioeconomic context.

Employers don’t demand it now. They hire people, based on college performance, experiences and personal qualifications. “Believe me”, they know which schools prepare the kids they want and they don’t look at effing USNews to discover that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t test scores the number one way for students to understand if they qualify for a university? Without them, how will a student choose? GPA can’t be used because high schools use different scales. Course rigor also varies between schools. Do the number of AP classes and their scores become the new placement proxy? It seems challenging to benchmark ECs and many of the most selective schools don’t care about them unless you’re a recruiter athlete. Right now, it seems like both colleges and students are betting that testing does NOT go away so that both can select each other. Thoughts?

GPA can be used, is being used, and has been used. Most colleges know that schools use different scales and have different degrees of rigor.

But just because the schools know how to evaluate GPAs in the context of different schools doesn't mean the students will and will know how to create their application list accordingly.

To summarize this thread:

1. Colleges are too dumb to pick the right kids without SATs so their students will fail out.
2. Students are too dumb to pick the right college for them without SATs so they will fail out.

How the hell did any of these people get near college, anyway? They all sound incredibly stupid! Please, college board, save them all from their own ineptitude!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing against APs since my kid took over a dozen, but using APs is far worse for students in small communities whose school don't have the funding or the critical mass to offer lots of APs.
Makes the SAT look much fairer by comparison.

Liar. Impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next step: abandon the use of GPA so they can do whatever they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t test scores the number one way for students to understand if they qualify for a university? Without them, how will a student choose? GPA can’t be used because high schools use different scales. Course rigor also varies between schools. Do the number of AP classes and their scores become the new placement proxy? It seems challenging to benchmark ECs and many of the most selective schools don’t care about them unless you’re a recruiter athlete. Right now, it seems like both colleges and students are betting that testing does NOT go away so that both can select each other. Thoughts?

GPA can be used, is being used, and has been used. Most colleges know that schools use different scales and have different degrees of rigor.

But just because the schools know how to evaluate GPAs in the context of different schools doesn't mean the students will and will know how to create their application list accordingly.

+1

[Anonymous]

No testing! No grades! What you look like is all that matters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores don’t tell schools much. I hope they go away.

GPA does tell a ton no matter how rigorous your school is.

Let me guess, your kid has a 4.3 GPA and can’t break 31 on the ACT or 1400 in the SAT. LOL