Those of you asking for differentiation in ES have unrealistic expectations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, please understand that many of the responders on this thread are very threatened by your ideas. They truly believe their children are 'gifted'. They aren't any more gifted than anyone else's kids, but it's very important to them that their kids have the label.

Says the mom of the kid that receives 90% of the teacher’s attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

So, you can’t have differing levels of ability in affluent schools? The not-so-bright and disruptive students are only located in high FARM schools?

Even in the low FARM schools, they place all kids together, regardless of ability. So the low achievers in those schools still get all of the teacher’s time, and the high ability kids get to do busy work on their own.

Your point sucks.

In low FARMs and ESOL schools, the difference between the best and worst performer will be much narrower, correct. So differentiation is not needed. It’s also not practical, when students stay in the same class with the same teacher all day. You might have some kids strong in math but weak in reading and writing, some kids with excellent reading comprehension but poor in math, etc. If you only have 3 or 4 classes per grade it becomes difficult to differentiate. It’s much easier starting middle school when students take different classes with different teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

So, you can’t have differing levels of ability in affluent schools? The not-so-bright and disruptive students are only located in high FARM schools?

Even in the low FARM schools, they place all kids together, regardless of ability. So the low achievers in those schools still get all of the teacher’s time, and the high ability kids get to do busy work on their own.

Your point sucks.

In low FARMs and ESOL schools, the difference between the best and worst performer will be much narrower, correct. So differentiation is not needed. It’s also not practical, when students stay in the same class with the same teacher all day. You might have some kids strong in math but weak in reading and writing, some kids with excellent reading comprehension but poor in math, etc. If you only have 3 or 4 classes per grade it becomes difficult to differentiate. It’s much easier starting middle school when students take different classes with different teachers.

The gap may not be enormous, but can still be significant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an excellent public school system in New England, and we had no differentiation or G&T in elementary school. Honors classes (for a couple of subjects) started in middle school (7th grade), with expanded honors/AP options in high school. I graduated in 2002.

However, the parent population was pretty well educated and kept tabs on their kids. Not many behavioral issues or disruptions to distract the teachers. And class sizes were ~22 kids. Everyone was taught the same lesson though. I felt I received a good education (later went to HYP for undergrad)

So, you went to elementary school in the 90s? Separating kids into different classes based on ability was allowed back then.

But it didn’t happen. Or if it did, it was done secretly, without informing students or parents.

I also went to ES in the nineties, and we definitely were grouped according to ability. My mom was a teacher in the school district though. That’s probably the only reason I know about it. I’m not sure they told the parents. They also weren’t mainstreaming the special ed kids.

Double-check on this because that certainly doesn’t sound legal. I agree with you that SpEd kids were not mainstreamed, which probably led to fewer disruptions.

[Anonymous]

I went to school in the late 80s and early 90s. My mom was a gifted teacher at the time. All the kids in my classes were taught the same lessons in elementary too - because I was in the “smart kids” class. Back then it was ok to track and divide kids. I have no idea what happened on the other classes in the same grade. All I know is that the kids I was with in 3rd grade were the same ones in my AP classes in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

So, you can’t have differing levels of ability in affluent schools? The not-so-bright and disruptive students are only located in high FARM schools?

Even in the low FARM schools, they place all kids together, regardless of ability. So the low achievers in those schools still get all of the teacher’s time, and the high ability kids get to do busy work on their own.

Your point sucks.

In low FARMs and ESOL schools, the difference between the best and worst performer will be much narrower, correct. So differentiation is not needed. It’s also not practical, when students stay in the same class with the same teacher all day. You might have some kids strong in math but weak in reading and writing, some kids with excellent reading comprehension but poor in math, etc. If you only have 3 or 4 classes per grade it becomes difficult to differentiate. It’s much easier starting middle school when students take different classes with different teachers.

The gap may not be enormous, but can still be significant.

Let me put it another way - in low FARMs and ESOL schools, the variance of aptitude/ability around the median will be lower. So teaching to the median will be perfectly fine. It will not cause the higher performers to be bored, nor the lower performers to fail (barring outliers at the extreme ends of the spectrum).

If “perfectly fine” is not acceptable to you, then you as a parent have the option to supplement at home. Though, my own parents didn’t feel the need to supplement, outside of taking me to museums and the library when I asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in the late 80s and early 90s. My mom was a gifted teacher at the time. All the kids in my classes were taught the same lessons in elementary too - because I was in the “smart kids” class. Back then it was ok to track and divide kids. I have no idea what happened on the other classes in the same grade. All I know is that the kids I was with in 3rd grade were the same ones in my AP classes in HS.

I’m sure some school districts differentiated, but not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in the late 80s and early 90s. My mom was a gifted teacher at the time. All the kids in my classes were taught the same lessons in elementary too - because I was in the “smart kids” class. Back then it was ok to track and divide kids. I have no idea what happened on the other classes in the same grade. All I know is that the kids I was with in 3rd grade were the same ones in my AP classes in HS.

I’m sure some school districts differentiated, but not all.

The counties pobably say they differentiate. Several years ago some counties gotten real trouble with the Department of Education. Purposely tracking students is a civil rights violation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in the late 80s and early 90s. My mom was a gifted teacher at the time. All the kids in my classes were taught the same lessons in elementary too - because I was in the “smart kids” class. Back then it was ok to track and divide kids. I have no idea what happened on the other classes in the same grade. All I know is that the kids I was with in 3rd grade were the same ones in my AP classes in HS.

I’m sure some school districts differentiated, but not all.

But wait, you just said that it wasn’t legal.

My point is, your experience three decades ago isn’t really relevant here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

So, you can’t have differing levels of ability in affluent schools? The not-so-bright and disruptive students are only located in high FARM schools?

Even in the low FARM schools, they place all kids together, regardless of ability. So the low achievers in those schools still get all of the teacher’s time, and the high ability kids get to do busy work on their own.

Your point sucks.

In low FARMs and ESOL schools, the difference between the best and worst performer will be much narrower, correct. So differentiation is not needed. It’s also not practical, when students stay in the same class with the same teacher all day. You might have some kids strong in math but weak in reading and writing, some kids with excellent reading comprehension but poor in math, etc. If you only have 3 or 4 classes per grade it becomes difficult to differentiate. It’s much easier starting middle school when students take different classes with different teachers.

The gap may not be enormous, but can still be significant.

Let me put it another way - in low FARMs and ESOL schools, the variance of aptitude/ability around the median will be lower. So teaching to the median will be perfectly fine. It will not cause the higher performers to be bored, nor the lower performers to fail (barring outliers at the extreme ends of the spectrum).

If “perfectly fine” is not acceptable to you, then you as a parent have the option to supplement at home. Though, my own parents didn’t feel the need to supplement, outside of taking me to museums and the library when I asked.

It totally depends on the school. Just because a school doesn’t have many students that are living at or below the poverty level does NOT mean that they are all at the same level academically. Some parents prioritize books and other enrichment activities. Others are checked out and have their kids watch Spongebob all summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

Did this b*tch really just tell people to move if they want decent instruction? Wtf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

TRANSLATION: the PPs all want to keep their precious babies away from the poors and brown people.

That is legit the reason why parents push for "gifted" in this area. AAP = bunch of racists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

That is my point. In ES zones with low FARMs and ESOL rates, differentiation should not be needed. So go find those ES.

Yes *should* not be needed. Except you're assuming a whole bunch of things there, as others said. Some kids will be bored, and others will be behind, even at a low FARMS schools. Even worse, you are assuming that the OP's anecdotal experience will translate into the same outcome here. It will not. I can give you my opposite anecdote as well, since you requested: a VERY low FARMS elementary in local LIV AAP. Curriculum is incredibly basic and watered down. Kids are not learning almost anything to show for the 5 hours spent in front of the screen with their teacher. What do you think is the problem here? (Hint: it's not the kids, most of them are well behaved and perfectly capable).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, maybe there isn’t much differentiation needed when all of the students are more or less at the same level, in addition to having small class sizes.

In many APS elementary schools, students from all sorts of backgrounds are in classes together. There are bright kids, not-so-bright kids, kids living in poverty, kids from affluent homes, and kids that speak little to no English all in the same (overcrowded) classroom together. Of course many of them aren’t at the same reading and/or math levels.

Why is it wrong to want instruction based on the needs of each child?

It would be much better to separate classes into different levels, but nooooo... equity rules! (Even if that means limiting some students’ potential and growth. Gotta give all the teacher’s time and effort to the low performers!)

TRANSLATION: the PPs all want to keep their precious babies away from the poors and brown people.

That is legit the reason why parents push for "gifted" in this area. AAP = bunch of racists

We aren’t in FCPS, so not AAP.

Friends who are in FCPS’ AAP say that their classes also have kids with widely varying abilities (ahem, some don’t belong in there).

Not everything is about race. But since you’re bringing it up, make sure to note how dismissive OP is of high FARM schools. Focus is only on low FARM schools, and if you don’t like your situation, just move (not hard at all!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in the late 80s and early 90s. My mom was a gifted teacher at the time. All the kids in my classes were taught the same lessons in elementary too - because I was in the “smart kids” class. Back then it was ok to track and divide kids. I have no idea what happened on the other classes in the same grade. All I know is that the kids I was with in 3rd grade were the same ones in my AP classes in HS.

I’m sure some school districts differentiated, but not all.

But wait, you just said that it wasn’t legal.

My point is, your experience three decades ago isn’t really relevant here.

I meant it sounds legal to differentiate without informing the students or parents. Not that it’s illegal to differentiate. I have no whether it’s legal or not, just that I’m pretty sure my school did not.