Race in MoCo magnets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.scribd.com/doc/26156319/2008-MSMC-MCPS-Program-Booklet

see page 18 for all the "rules" about the MSMC lottery

I don't see where "race" is included in the above MSMC lottery process. One might argue that socioeconomic status and % of FARMs students at the home school are proxies for getting more non-white students into these programs, but that is not the same as explicitly asking for race on the application form and explicitly using racial status as an aspect of admissions. The latter is not permitted under the law in MoCo.

Interesting that gender is mentioned as several years ago the elementary school magnet presentation question and answer session said that gender, like race, was not a permitted consideration in admissions and that the selection process had no way to ensure that the selected classes were balanced along gender lines.

[Anonymous]

Race isn't included in the lottery process for "consortium" schools like Loiderman. For these consortium schools, admission is strictly by lottery number. Nothing else, like test scores or race, matters. This is why I made the point that increasing minority applications to the lottery schools would presumably increase minority representation in these schools proportionately.

The magnet schools (2 at MS, 3 at HS) are another issue. The process is much less transparent, involving test scores, essays and geographic preferences - and no lotteries. As you and others have said, MoCo is prohibited from using race. However, we know families who find ways to indicate race on the application essays (and these would be the upper income families who know how to work the system, not the lower-income and immigrant families). MoCo is also very upfront, during the open houses, about how they use geographic preferences. I hadn't heard about FARMS.

[Anonymous]

The geographic preference for MoCo magnets (as opposed to lotteries) works both ways. MoCo wants to keep white kids in the poorer school districts, so these kids' chances at a magnet may actually be lower than for everybody else, unless the magnet is housed in TPMS or Blair which are downcounty to begin with. And it's why you find the magnets in the downcounty schools, generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is being hispanic an advantage in getting a spot into a magnet program in MoCo. I'm really just curious.

I certainly hope not! That would be incredibly racist and unfair!

[Anonymous]

This may not be popular view here, but there is indeed discrimination going on in the "lottery". My son is in fifth grade in a consortium (Title 1) elementary school. His interest is in science. He's tested into honors programs (not MCPS) in math and science. He's been to Space Camp twice and won awards there for his work during those weeks. He's a smart kid. He's also not poor. Obviously his first choice was Parkland - for aerospace. He was one of two kids in his class that didn't get his first choice of middle schools. He was assigned to Loiderman. In the meantime they've let out of consortium kids into Parkland.

Can someone tell me how this is fair or how my son is not being penalized for not being poor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may not be popular view here, but there is indeed discrimination going on in the "lottery". My son is in fifth grade in a consortium (Title 1) elementary school. His interest is in science. He's tested into honors programs (not MCPS) in math and science. He's been to Space Camp twice and won awards there for his work during those weeks. He's a smart kid. He's also not poor. Obviously his first choice was Parkland - for aerospace. He was one of two kids in his class that didn't get his first choice of middle schools. He was assigned to Loiderman. In the meantime they've let out of consortium kids into Parkland.

Can someone tell me how this is fair or how my son is not being penalized for not being poor?

Can you tell us how he is?
This is not enough information for strangers to make a fair and accurate analysis of a process and in which we were not involved.

[Anonymous]

Admission to those programs is purely by lottery.

[Anonymous]

The process is NOT a pure lottery. MCPS says as much. They take all kinds of factors into account - including socioeconomic status. My son was one of two in his class that didn't get his first choice. They have admitted out of consortium kids into Parkland. I may not have proof, but it sure seems to me that there's enough circumstantial evidence that he didn't get his choice because they figure he'll do ok no matter where he goes - which I'm sure he will. It just seems to me that he should get a slot before someone from outside the consortium does.

[Anonymous]

It's definitely a consideration in the Parkland/Argyle/Loiderman group. My colleague's daughter, who's white, was not accepted into one of the magnets - her HOME school, mind you - b/c she was a white female.

Anonymous wrote:Race is not a permitted consideration on MoCo magnet applications. It is not asked on the application form, although nothing precludes the kind of volunteer mention described by PP above.

If one had evidence that race was influencing the decision-making, it would be grounds for a lawsuit. This is well-settled law in MD. See Eisenberg case & history.

As one who has a child in a magnet, I can't say that minority race helps kids get in, as there is very little diversity in our program, and that is the biggest drawback about it, IMO.

I would like to see more diversity, but why the lack of diversity happens (clearly not for lack of bright minority students) and how to rectify it is a subject for another thread.

TPMS and EMS are both application magnets which require high test scores, good grades, teacher recs., etc. They are NOT entrance by lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I want to make the distinction, because I actually believe that AfAm/Latino parents have every right to be concerned that their kids are not being selected for the competitive magnets. But, I think MoCo tries to hide the ball a little bit by offering these "thematic" magnets and pretending they are the same. I would like to see more transparency in MoCo about the competitive magnet selection process at all levels -- elem/middle/high -- (who gets in )w/ what grades, recs, test scores, etc.), but I'm afraid that this would reveal that there are many qualified students who are not selected, thus putting pressure on the whole magnet concept. I also would like to see more thought as to what kind of biases might be built into the current selection process. (i.e. Latino kids who don't speak English as a first language are much less likely to do well on the standardized tests which are a critical component of the admission process and at least two instruments -- the parent and teacher rec. -- depend on identifying a student as "gifted" and may intrinsically be subject to biases which weed out AfAm/Latino students.) Also, cultural and socioeconomic barriers to application/participation need to be mitigated (like providing buses and application help as the cited article mentioned, but more).

I actually think the "thematic" magnets, which are done by lottery, are a great thing. They take the pressure off kids of all races to get into, for example at the MS level, one of only two competitive magnets. If a kid can say they're doing music at Loiderman, then the kids feels good about himself/herself, is doing something they truly like. I actually hate this system of testing kids for MS and HS, and even though my kids have done fairly well at it, it's still really stressfull.

But Weast has made noises about cutting the thematic magnets. And he doesn't seem enamored of the test-based magnets. And he's threatened to cut busses to all of them....

Well, Weast is outa here. We'l see what happens with the new Sup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's definitely a consideration in the Parkland/Argyle/Loiderman group. My colleague's daughter, who's white, was not accepted into one of the magnets - her HOME school, mind you - b/c she was a white female.

Wow! Can they prove that's why she wasn't admitted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is being hispanic an advantage in getting a spot into a magnet program in MoCo. I'm really just curious.

I certainly hope not! That would be incredibly racist and unfair!

And you are delusional to think it doesn't happen all the time!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's definitely a consideration in the Parkland/Argyle/Loiderman group. My colleague's daughter, who's white, was not accepted into one of the magnets - her HOME school, mind you - b/c she was a white female.

Thank you!

We're going to appeal this as highas we can go. We pay more in taxes than most people make in year. someone is going to have to give us a REALLY good explanation why my IN CONSORTIUM child didn't get in but other out of consortium kids did. I can't think of a good enough reason.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have the stats on the racial/ethnic make-up of these programs? I get the impression that they are not terribly diverse. In other words, I don't think minority status provides an advantage. These programs should actually be more diverse. The problem is when there are limited slots for a many qualified students, parents look for reasons why their children didn't get in or wonder if someone was able to manipulate the system by slipping in references to race or ethnicity. Most minorities really don't see the supposed "advantages" that some people believe minority status carries.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget the purposes of these magnets, which is to keep white kids in the east county schools. I think excluding them from the lottery would kind of defeat the purpose.