Opponents to TJ Lottery - You Need Other Talking Points

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

So you should prohibit your kids from taking any tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. So it seems the people most aggrieved with the TJ proposal stick with the same argument they keep making over and over again. It really makes me think it's just a handful of incensed posters.

I mean, can you blame them? They moved to their homes, to this area, this county, even this country out of a misguided belief that TJ was the end-all be-all of education.

They spend thousands of dollars in many cases on additional enrichment activities to play by the rules of a game that they were promised privileged access to.

And now the rules are changing. And they don’t understand why it has to change now, and so they parrot the talking points of their Trump-loving and Trump-emulating fearless leader.

Those who are already at TJ want a voice in the process, failing to realize that they are the very problem that needs to be solved and confirming their toxicity with each bad-faith argument they put forth.

They realistically have no idea what the new racial balance of the school will be post-lottery, or any idea of how the lottery pool will be selected or what size it will be or what the actual impact on the school will be. Yet they claim there will be issues with transportation, or overcrowding, or lack of readiness.

Those accustomed to status view equity as racism.

Note the unsubtle dig against immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. So it seems the people most aggrieved with the TJ proposal stick with the same argument they keep making over and over again. It really makes me think it's just a handful of incensed posters.

I mean, can you blame them? They moved to their homes, to this area, this county, even this country out of a misguided belief that TJ was the end-all be-all of education.

They spend thousands of dollars in many cases on additional enrichment activities to play by the rules of a game that they were promised privileged access to.

And now the rules are changing. And they don’t understand why it has to change now, and so they parrot the talking points of their Trump-loving and Trump-emulating fearless leader.

Those who are already at TJ want a voice in the process, failing to realize that they are the very problem that needs to be solved and confirming their toxicity with each bad-faith argument they put forth.

They realistically have no idea what the new racial balance of the school will be post-lottery, or any idea of how the lottery pool will be selected or what size it will be or what the actual impact on the school will be. Yet they claim there will be issues with transportation, or overcrowding, or lack of readiness.

Those accustomed to status view equity as racism.

It is not bad faith to suggest FCPS has to think about the enrollment impacts on other schools. That is one reason why the School Board members representing Chantilly and McLean didn’t express support for Brabrand’s proposal right away. He said nothing to suggest he’d given it any thought. And, for sure, members like Keys Gamarra don’t care at all if some schools end up with even more trailers as long as they can take credit for more URMs at TJ.

Because in the end, the impact is not going to be any more significant than the regular year-over-year ADM noise between years. Many students who would otherwise attend TJ will attend private schools. Families will move out of the area. The impact will not be massive - you’re talking about maybe 10-20 kids per high school per year, and that’s statistical noise given the fluctuations in ADM numbers.

Other analyses have suggested some schools could pick up another 100 kids over a four-year, and it’s not reassuring that Brabrand didn’t bother to address it and you now seem to be making this up on the fly based on assumptions that weren’t publicly shared and seem to be biased towards minimizing the impact on schools that FCPS ignores year after year as it focuses its attention on things like shaking up TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. So it seems the people most aggrieved with the TJ proposal stick with the same argument they keep making over and over again. It really makes me think it's just a handful of incensed posters.

I mean, can you blame them? They moved to their homes, to this area, this county, even this country out of a misguided belief that TJ was the end-all be-all of education.

They spend thousands of dollars in many cases on additional enrichment activities to play by the rules of a game that they were promised privileged access to.

And now the rules are changing. And they don’t understand why it has to change now, and so they parrot the talking points of their Trump-loving and Trump-emulating fearless leader.

Those who are already at TJ want a voice in the process, failing to realize that they are the very problem that needs to be solved and confirming their toxicity with each bad-faith argument they put forth.

They realistically have no idea what the new racial balance of the school will be post-lottery, or any idea of how the lottery pool will be selected or what size it will be or what the actual impact on the school will be. Yet they claim there will be issues with transportation, or overcrowding, or lack of readiness.

Those accustomed to status view equity as racism.

Keep fooling yourself with delusional “equity” arguments imbecile.

Name calling is a great way to appear well-informed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

Umm . . . it's a pretty direct correlation. Look at how JHCTY, Duke TIP, Davidson Gifted, etc. determine giftedness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Shut that prep company down then. Don't use it as a straw man to attack all Asians.

The prep company will open under another name. No sh&t. You really think Americans are THAT stupid. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

Umm . . . it's a pretty direct correlation. Look at how JHCTY, Duke TIP, Davidson Gifted, etc. determine giftedness.

Oh, FFS. If taking a test well is your only hope, you are basically screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Agree with the fact that the one prep company obviously found the secret formula to cracking the TJ code. Can the SB capitalize on that knowledge and find a way to work with this company to add much needed academic support in the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Agree with the fact that the one prep company obviously found the secret formula to cracking the TJ code. Can the SB capitalize on that knowledge and find a way to work with this company to add much needed academic support in the system?

Cheating /= academic support

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

Umm . . . it's a pretty direct correlation. Look at how JHCTY, Duke TIP, Davidson Gifted, etc. determine giftedness.

Oh, FFS. If taking a test well is your only hope, you are basically screwed.

Hope you never need to take the MCAT, LSAT, medical boards, bar exam, etc. Tests are a part of professional life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Shut that prep company down then. Don't use it as a straw man to attack all Asians.

Nope. That would never work, because there is obviously a culture of cheating, and FCPS tax payers won't spend their tax money chasing cheaters down. The cheaters left no option but to change the school. Happy now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

Umm . . . it's a pretty direct correlation. Look at how JHCTY, Duke TIP, Davidson Gifted, etc. determine giftedness.

Oh, FFS. If taking a test well is your only hope, you are basically screwed.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the number 1 high school in the country. I think they were doing something right.

Yep. They were selecting students with standardized testing as a baseline, guaranteeing them a student body who would fare well on SATs, ACTs, and APs, which is what those rankings are based on.

Best test takers does not equal best students or even smartest kids.

How many kids are in remediation now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Shut that prep company down then. Don't use it as a straw man to attack all Asians.

Nope. That would never work, because there is obviously a culture of cheating, and FCPS tax payers won't spend their tax money chasing cheaters down. The cheaters left no option but to change the school. Happy now?

So if NFL catches players taking performance enhancing drugs in the league's combine, it should just cancel the 40 yard dash and all the other tests and use a lottery to draft players? You go after cheaters when there is a cheating problem. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

By the tone of your post, you are not URM. You are an angry Karen whose kids can't compete on a leveling field. No amount of training can elevate your kids to a high level, so you want to drag everyone down low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also add that the advocates should acknowlege that the current process has flaws. (Its no secret that 28% of the class of 2024 came from one prep company.)

Ignoring the elephant in the room will not make it go away and people will dismiss you if you do not address it.

Shut that prep company down then. Don't use it as a straw man to attack all Asians.

Nope. That would never work, because there is obviously a culture of cheating, and FCPS tax payers won't spend their tax money chasing cheaters down. The cheaters left no option but to change the school. Happy now?

So if NFL catches players taking performance enhancing drugs in the league's combine, it should just cancel the 40 yard dash and all the other tests and use a lottery to draft players? You go after cheaters when there is a cheating problem. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

By the tone of your post, you are not URM. You are an angry Karen whose kids can't compete on a leveling field. No amount of training can elevate your kids to a high level, so you want to drag everyone down low.

DP. I think you are missing the point. I'd replace your baby with the bath water analogy with the suggestion you are missing the forest for the trees.

Curie may be a particularly egregious example of students with an unfair advantage gaining admission to TJ, but it is symptomatic of a much larger pay-to-play culture where students whose parents can afford the big TJ feeders, subsidize their participation in the "right" activities to pad their young CVs, and enroll them in test-prep courses get a gold star while Black, Hispanic and low-income students are turned away and sent the message they are not sufficiently intelligent or deserving.

Either this culture should be changed, through a proposal like a lottery, or TJ should be shut down entirely as a magnet.