what happened to Ben Lederman- article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:although this is interesting stuff to speculate and discuss,

it is equally interesting that it is even a point of discussion on these boards, the reality is that:

1.almost 100% of youth can benefit from playing sport in emotional, physical, skill and teamwork

2. almost 100% of youth will never make a living from sport and play professionally

While true, this comment doesn't seem on topic for this thread.

Although only a small percentage of kids playing travel soccer make it to the pros (or even D1), there are more American teens going pro every year, and at earlier ages, both in the States and Europe. Some of us know kids in this position and/or have kids who will need to decide between college and the pros, so it's helpful to hear about the experiences of families like the Ledermans who took a signficant risk in the hopes it would help their kid's pro prospects.

PP here. If you are in a position of helping your family decide whether to uproot overseas for a pro contract for an 11 year old (anywhere not just Barca) then I feel bad for you. My point stands: becoming a pro is a dream not a bad one necessarily but very unlikely and if one chooses to pursue it they should pursue the reality of it as well - you will struggle against all others and injury and team playing styles etc and hopefully play for 2-3 years at a top level, whatever your top level ends up being. “Pro” means different things to different people. Playing USL and B

[Anonymous]

And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

[Anonymous]

Get out and talk to real people

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

I think PP makes an equally good point noting that a discussion of Pro aspirations on DCUrban Mom message board - although par for the course on the board - is in itself humorous. Unless Claudio Reyna has recently been perusing and posting. If so a “ thanks to all the DCUrban Posters for your insight and guidance as we wrk on Gii’s journey” post is forthcoming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

I think PP makes an equally good point noting that a discussion of Pro aspirations on DCUrban Mom message board - although par for the course on the board - is in itself humorous. Unless Claudio Reyna has recently been perusing and posting. If so a “ thanks to all the DCUrban Posters for your insight and guidance as we wrk on Gii’s journey” post is forthcoming.

I find this line of thinking strange. There are hundreds of boys playing in DA (and elsewhere) right now who reasonably believe they can go pro, and are working toward that goal. If you are in that world, you know kids who have succeeded (even if most only end up at the USL or MLS level) and others who didn’t or who gave up on the dream. Your kid does not have to be playing at Dortmund for you to find the topic interesting. I enjoy talking on DCUM about things I find interesting, whether the topic is soccer, food, family dysfunction, or AAP. I would have thought that was true for everyone here, but it sometimes seem like a lot of posters come here only to mock others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

I think PP makes an equally good point noting that a discussion of Pro aspirations on DCUrban Mom message board - although par for the course on the board - is in itself humorous. Unless Claudio Reyna has recently been perusing and posting. If so a “ thanks to all the DCUrban Posters for your insight and guidance as we wrk on Gii’s journey” post is forthcoming.

I find this line of thinking strange. There are hundreds of boys playing in DA (and elsewhere) right now who reasonably believe they can go pro, and are working toward that goal. If you are in that world, you know kids who have succeeded (even if most only end up at the USL or MLS level) and others who didn’t or who gave up on the dream. Your kid does not have to be playing at Dortmund for you to find the topic interesting. I enjoy talking on DCUM about things I find interesting, whether the topic is soccer, food, family dysfunction, or AAP. I would have thought that was true for everyone here, but it sometimes seem like a lot of posters come here only to mock others.

pro in the US, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One point stood out to me, because people on this forum have time and again dismissed the importance of game time, saying it's all about the training. This kid trained with Barcelona for a whole year while the club fought FIFA's ruling, but he got little game experience because he could only play in friendlies.

"It was then that the toll taken from a lack of game action revealed itself.". Kids need to play.

For the record, I think FIFA's rule does more to disenfranchise young players than it does to protect them from being exploited. It prevents them from finding opportunities at some of the best clubs in the world, and by the time they are 18, it will be too late.

Game time is extremely important, but you have to take that statement from the article with a big grain of salt given the source. I do really feel for this family, but it seems clear that a large part of why he doesn't seem to be making it is related to his physical abilities, which from various reports lag well behind his skill level. Also, while the FIFA rule hurts kids like this and John Hilton, it was put in place to prevent the horrifying exploitation of poor kids from African and elsewhere, who were brought to Europe in large numbers and then left to fend for themselves with no financial support when they didn't immediately pan out. It would be great if the rule were amended so it more narrowly targeted the population it aims to help.

Also, there are scores of US kids there now (esp. Germany) who had to wait until they were 18, but are now doing very well.

Yes. Gerard Pique whose grandfather was a director at Barca was introduced to Dutch coach Louis van Gaal (Barca manager at the time) at a lunch organized by his grandfather. "This is my grandson, a center-back for Barcelona's youth team," he told van Gaal. van Gaal looked Pique up and down, and then (much to the 14-year old Pique's surprise) pushed him over. "You're too weak to be a Barcelona defender" he told Pique. Pique moved from club to club in search of game time. He was homesick at ManU. So, yes, physicality matters. Of course, boy did Pique grow into a beast at 6'4". But, even for the gilded with connections, it is a tough, tough thing to break in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get out and talk to real people

+1

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One point stood out to me, because people on this forum have time and again dismissed the importance of game time, saying it's all about the training. This kid trained with Barcelona for a whole year while the club fought FIFA's ruling, but he got little game experience because he could only play in friendlies.

"It was then that the toll taken from a lack of game action revealed itself.". Kids need to play.

For the record, I think FIFA's rule does more to disenfranchise young players than it does to protect them from being exploited. It prevents them from finding opportunities at some of the best clubs in the world, and by the time they are 18, it will be too late.

Game time is extremely important, but you have to take that statement from the article with a big grain of salt given the source. I do really feel for this family, but it seems clear that a large part of why he doesn't seem to be making it is related to his physical abilities, which from various reports lag well behind his skill level. Also, while the FIFA rule hurts kids like this and John Hilton, it was put in place to prevent the horrifying exploitation of poor kids from African and elsewhere, who were brought to Europe in large numbers and then left to fend for themselves with no financial support when they didn't immediately pan out. It would be great if the rule were amended so it more narrowly targeted the population it aims to help.

Also, there are scores of US kids there now (esp. Germany) who had to wait until they were 18, but are now doing very well.

Yes. Gerard Pique whose grandfather was a director at Barca was introduced to Dutch coach Louis van Gaal (Barca manager at the time) at a lunch organized by his grandfather. "This is my grandson, a center-back for Barcelona's youth team," he told van Gaal. van Gaal looked Pique up and down, and then (much to the 14-year old Pique's surprise) pushed him over. "You're too weak to be a Barcelona defender" he told Pique. Pique moved from club to club in search of game time. He was homesick at ManU. So, yes, physicality matters. Of course, boy did Pique grow into a beast at 6'4". But, even for the gilded with connections, it is a tough, tough thing to break in.

That's a pretty neat story. Thank you for sharing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One point stood out to me, because people on this forum have time and again dismissed the importance of game time, saying it's all about the training. This kid trained with Barcelona for a whole year while the club fought FIFA's ruling, but he got little game experience because he could only play in friendlies.

"It was then that the toll taken from a lack of game action revealed itself.". Kids need to play.

For the record, I think FIFA's rule does more to disenfranchise young players than it does to protect them from being exploited. It prevents them from finding opportunities at some of the best clubs in the world, and by the time they are 18, it will be too late.

Game time is extremely important, but you have to take that statement from the article with a big grain of salt given the source. I do really feel for this family, but it seems clear that a large part of why he doesn't seem to be making it is related to his physical abilities, which from various reports lag well behind his skill level. Also, while the FIFA rule hurts kids like this and John Hilton, it was put in place to prevent the horrifying exploitation of poor kids from African and elsewhere, who were brought to Europe in large numbers and then left to fend for themselves with no financial support when they didn't immediately pan out. It would be great if the rule were amended so it more narrowly targeted the population it aims to help.

Also, there are scores of US kids there now (esp. Germany) who had to wait until they were 18, but are now doing very well.

Yes. Gerard Pique whose grandfather was a director at Barca was introduced to Dutch coach Louis van Gaal (Barca manager at the time) at a lunch organized by his grandfather. "This is my grandson, a center-back for Barcelona's youth team," he told van Gaal. van Gaal looked Pique up and down, and then (much to the 14-year old Pique's surprise) pushed him over. "You're too weak to be a Barcelona defender" he told Pique. Pique moved from club to club in search of game time. He was homesick at ManU. So, yes, physicality matters. Of course, boy did Pique grow into a beast at 6'4". But, even for the gilded with connections, it is a tough, tough thing to break in.

That's a pretty neat story. Thank you for sharing

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

I think PP makes an equally good point noting that a discussion of Pro aspirations on DCUrban Mom message board - although par for the course on the board - is in itself humorous. Unless Claudio Reyna has recently been perusing and posting. If so a “ thanks to all the DCUrban Posters for your insight and guidance as we wrk on Gii’s journey” post is forthcoming.

I find this line of thinking strange. There are hundreds of boys playing in DA (and elsewhere) right now who reasonably believe they can go pro, and are working toward that goal. If you are in that world, you know kids who have succeeded (even if most only end up at the USL or MLS level) and others who didn’t or who gave up on the dream. Your kid does not have to be playing at Dortmund for you to find the topic interesting. I enjoy talking on DCUM about things I find interesting, whether the topic is soccer, food, family dysfunction, or AAP. I would have thought that was true for everyone here, but it sometimes seem like a lot of posters come here only to mock others.

pro in the US, maybe.

+1

"Most" end up at MLS level?

Pro in the US at USL means maybe average salary of $38k and you have to submit timecards as you get paid based on hourly training and game appearances to get that $ (not really a salary but hourly)
Pro in MLS is reasonable minimum salary of $70k
Pro Baltimore Blast average $38k

Average career at these levels is < 3 years

and then: ???

now travel, playing, and fun are priceless so a dream is a good thing but shouldnt be glamorized and confused with La Masia signings of an 11 year old that was likely a bit of legit interest and a bit of publicity stunt by Barca

[Anonymous]

Knew the kid and the family. Lived there for 7 years. My son too, has been pursuing his dream, his sport...

Over the few years, one element is clear - a lot of kids come and go from US and they barely qualify for the lowest teams on the local clubs and they leave, while in US they were a big fish...same goes for other countries - Spain still seems to be the preferential country where people think you can develop and progress from there...also, it is true that all those people coming through did not complain about money, so they were able to do that, get into those opportunities and hop around in adjoining countries.

Ben right now plays for a Polish club...his problem has been and continues to be play time...he is not Messi nor Ronaldo...they say that the best players you will find in a local pub, drinking beer. I am starting to believe that.

What people don't know, making it in Spain is super difficult. Second, maybe especially in Catalonia/Barcelona area, lots of prejudice against foreigners...the coaches, the culture around soccer, not as you would like to think. As with any sport, and very evident in Spain - who you know, who you are, how much money you have - politics...this in the end determines what team you get on, how much play time you get, etc.

Barca - forget Barca...I have seen countless stars from Barca academy come and go...Barca seems to be promoting some now, but I think to market them for the near future sale. Otherwise, Barca has not produced really anyone for a while; it is easier to buy a player. So, going through an academy means nothing, other than maybe it will allow you to get onto another team, but that is about it. Oddly enough, some players make it and they are ok players in my opinion. This to a degree is masked by overall good team and training...Barca academy players come and go every year and the fact is that at other clubs there are as good a players if not better...so, luck of the draw in sense.

Enough said - some get lucky to get onto good teams, have play time, etc, but the reality is they disappear within few years, meaning stop playing. It is a very tough sport, many variables, etc, and being a foreigner does not help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is special they’ll find him

Not sure this is true. DCU might find him. I'm not convinced anyone else will unless you get proactive - and then the question becomes "Does DCU's academy provide an adequate pathway?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And B leagues etc is a tough life of survival. More like minor league baseball. And post premier la logs etc is not an easy one either - look at wynalda.

Lederman is not a warning story it is the reality. If the kid enjoyed the journey then thats all good. Sad that the family now regrets their decision. Not a way to look back.

Honestly my point is that if you are reading these boards or articles to learn about stuff you are in a fantasy land. Get out and talk to real people. If your kid is special they’ll find him - and maybe hat is something to worry about

So many assumptions! I’d be extremely surprised if anyone is reading DCUM to get tips on how to start their kid on a pathway to the pros. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to talk here about issues that young pro-wannabes face on their journey. Topics like this are a welcome relief from the constant club- and kid-bashing that most of the girl player parent posters seem to prefer.

I think PP makes an equally good point noting that a discussion of Pro aspirations on DCUrban Mom message board - although par for the course on the board - is in itself humorous. Unless Claudio Reyna has recently been perusing and posting. If so a “ thanks to all the DCUrban Posters for your insight and guidance as we wrk on Gii’s journey” post is forthcoming.

I find this line of thinking strange. There are hundreds of boys playing in DA (and elsewhere) right now who reasonably believe they can go pro, and are working toward that goal. If you are in that world, you know kids who have succeeded (even if most only end up at the USL or MLS level) and others who didn’t or who gave up on the dream. Your kid does not have to be playing at Dortmund for you to find the topic interesting. I enjoy talking on DCUM about things I find interesting, whether the topic is soccer, food, family dysfunction, or AAP. I would have thought that was true for everyone here, but it sometimes seem like a lot of posters come here only to mock others.

pro in the US, maybe.

Nope - there are folks from this area who have gone pro in various countries. Not always at the highest level. And obviously most who try won't succeed. But just because it's tough and most will fail is NOT a reason not to try. Most of the men who end up playing in the EPL were not such superstars that it was always obvious they would make it. They were kids, just like hundreds of others, trying to get a spot in an academy and work their butts off to see if they could make it. There are probably a hundred or more for every one that ends up playing at the highest level. So what? Pulisic played for PA Classics - not such a glamorous background - but he made it. Of course if he had listened to you he wouldn't have bothered trying.