The New America: Elite Privates forever out of reach for UMC?

[Anonymous]

I don’t consider University of Wisconsin Madison to be ELITE. I think OP is talking about HYPS etc...

UMC (We are 260k salary) can pay for 4 years undergraduate at private 4 year if they save. The question is whether it is both.

[Anonymous]

The question is whether it is worth it... sorry autocorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t consider University of Wisconsin Madison to be ELITE. I think OP is talking about HYPS etc...

UMC (We are 260k salary) can pay for 4 years undergraduate at private 4 year if they save. The question is whether it is both.

No one on this thread said it is.

[Anonymous]

“ spend 75K comfortably out of pocket or savings while affording a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools (forget private). Especially for multiple children”

Who on earth thinks that they are entitled to these things? Why should affording in college be comfortable? It’s a big purchase, something you work towards, save towards, and pay off for years afterward. Seems like you think that you’re entitled to it without any lifestyle changes at all.

Maybe you can only afford it if you don’t have a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools. Maybe you can only afford it if you live in a townhouse, send your kids to charter schools and give some other stuff up.

I hardly see that as an American tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ spend 75K comfortably out of pocket or savings while affording a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools (forget private). Especially for multiple children”

Who on earth thinks that they are entitled to these things? Why should affording in college be comfortable? It’s a big purchase, something you work towards, save towards, and pay off for years afterward. Seems like you think that you’re entitled to it without any lifestyle changes at all.

Maybe you can only afford it if you don’t have a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools. Maybe you can only afford it if you live in a townhouse, send your kids to charter schools and give some other stuff up.

I hardly see that as an American tragedy.

No one said anything about entitlement. The issue is that the cost of education of the schools has gone up over the years at a rate far greater than inflation, making them inaccessible to a portion of the population.

That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ spend 75K comfortably out of pocket or savings while affording a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools (forget private). Especially for multiple children”

Who on earth thinks that they are entitled to these things? Why should affording in college be comfortable? It’s a big purchase, something you work towards, save towards, and pay off for years afterward. Seems like you think that you’re entitled to it without any lifestyle changes at all.

Maybe you can only afford it if you don’t have a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools. Maybe you can only afford it if you live in a townhouse, send your kids to charter schools and give some other stuff up.

I hardly see that as an American tragedy.

No one said anything about entitlement. The issue is that the cost of education of the schools has gone up over the years at a rate far greater than inflation, making them inaccessible to a portion of the population.

That’s it.

I can’t afford a yacht so my kids get to rent jet skis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ spend 75K comfortably out of pocket or savings while affording a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools (forget private). Especially for multiple children”

Who on earth thinks that they are entitled to these things? Why should affording in college be comfortable? It’s a big purchase, something you work towards, save towards, and pay off for years afterward. Seems like you think that you’re entitled to it without any lifestyle changes at all.

Maybe you can only afford it if you don’t have a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools. Maybe you can only afford it if you live in a townhouse, send your kids to charter schools and give some other stuff up.

I hardly see that as an American tragedy.

No one said anything about entitlement. The issue is that the cost of education of the schools has gone up over the years at a rate far greater than inflation, making them inaccessible to a portion of the population.

That’s it.

And?

[Anonymous]

Not PP, but a substantial number of my HS friends, in the mixed-SES town I grew up, in attended top-20 schools: Harvard, Yale, Brown, Williams, Amherst, Dartmouth - those are the names I recall off the top of my head.

In our generation (I'm 58yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer and school-year work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute almost $25,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $29,687.80 in 2019. But that school now costs almost $75,000/year.

+1

I'm 59 and this describes the shift well.

It's really about who gets access to the elite institutions and therefore into the ruling class.

[Anonymous]

But my point is that they are not inaccessible. They are just not “comfortably “accessible. Households making $200,000 could afford it if they were willing to live like as if they were making $125,000. The OP’s premise seems to be that middle-class people should be able to afford it without any impact on their lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But my point is that they are not inaccessible. They are just not “comfortably “accessible. Households making $200,000 could afford it if they were willing to live like as if they were making $125,000. The OP’s premise seems to be that middle-class people should be able to afford it without any impact on their lifestyle.

The $75K spread doesn't take the tax on the $200,000 income into account. Those people would have to live more like they were making less than $100K, taking taxes into account.

Moreover, that income doesn't go as far in e.g. DC as it does in Tulsa - and presumably the people earning it have not been earning it for 18 years. Whatever they were earning in the first 5-8 years was eaten up by daycare.

The costs of housing and healthcare have also risen dramatically in the last 40 years, making it all the harder for people to save.

Private and Parent Plus loans were not a thing before tuition soared out of control.

[Anonymous]

I went to an expensive private college and in my case it didn't translate into making billions on Wall Street. I don't make any more money than the guy next door who went to Tech -- so I have had a very hard time believing that it would be worth it to have only driving vacations, live in a smaller house, etc. so that I could give my kids the same education. Yes, I probably read more literature and met more interesting people while in college -- but the idea that one basically needs to save thirty percent of one's income for college doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather have good memories of family vacations and be able to afford the theater tickets, etc.
And the idea that going to Williams or Dartmouth necessarily buys you admission to the 'ruling class' is kind of BS if you ask me. Most of the people from those schools who end up in the ruling class are of the 'born on third base and sliding into home' kind of scenarios. The rest of us ended up UMC. Nothing to scoff at but not exa ctly rulers of the universe.

[Anonymous]

OP, quit complaint. Just send your kid to a public college. They’ll be fine

[Anonymous]

The difference between the 80th-90th percentile parents and the bottom 80% is no one else wonders why their kids can’t go to T20 schools. Their kids wouldn’t even think about applying. There are thousands of kids who are #1 in their high schools with top SAT scores attending their state flagships, who maybe applied to 1 other school (and it wasn’t an Ivy).

This isn’t “new.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But my point is that they are not inaccessible. They are just not “comfortably “accessible. Households making $200,000 could afford it if they were willing to live like as if they were making $125,000. The OP’s premise seems to be that middle-class people should be able to afford it without any impact on their lifestyle.

The $75K spread doesn't take the tax on the $200,000 income into account. Those people would have to live more like they were making less than $100K, taking taxes into account.

Moreover, that income doesn't go as far in e.g. DC as it does in Tulsa - and presumably the people earning it have not been earning it for 18 years. Whatever they were earning in the first 5-8 years was eaten up by daycare.

The costs of housing and healthcare have also risen dramatically in the last 40 years, making it all the harder for people to save.

Private and Parent Plus loans were not a thing before tuition soared out of control.

I agree with you that it is very difficult for families in that “UMC donut hole”, particularly those in high COL areas, to pay for the elite schools. I’m still not seeing how it’s a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it depends on how you define UMC. Let's say donut hole families which are so common in high COL areas. Above 100k income approx, but not enough to shell out 300K cash for a bachelor's degree. Not eligible for need based aid at IVY's and other elite privates. Guess these schools don't care that there is a segment of the population which can no longer afford their services. It's too small a demographic perhaps? The 80th to 90th income percentiles, again approx. Not sure what would be the threshold HHI in a high COL area to be able to spend 75K comfortably out of pocket or savings while affording a single family home in a decent neighborhood with good schools (forget private). Especially for multiple children. In other words a basic middle class life as it used to be defined.

I'm older and I would say that this started being an issue around 2000. The younger UMC demographic seems to be a key segment of Bernie's support. Is it any wonder? Not that any bachelor's degree is worth 300K.

One aspect of the new American inequality: the proletarianization of the everyone under the plutocracy.