COGAT FCPS- Please let me know if he has a shot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30% of FCPS students are in AAP. It’s not a selective group by any means. Acceptance is not based on scores, but mainly hinders on excellent teacher recommendations. If you have a gifted child who is disruptive in class, this child will not get a good letter and will not get into AAP. It’s a teachers pet sort of thing.

This is all wrong. All of it.

DP Exaggeration, but not completely false:
"30% of FCPS students are in AAP" - It's actually around 20% based on the stats put out by both FCPS dashboard and FCAG
"It's not a selective group by any means" - accurate
"Acceptance is not based on scores.... teacher recommendations" - quasi true. Teacher recommendations are important. High scores aren't enough if the GBRS is low
"If you have a gifted child who is disruptive...." - False. Many disruptive kids are accepted into AAP.

I believe it is 20% by sixth grade, that includes kids who have moved into the county and accepted, kids who apply in a later grade and private school transfers. I thought I saw someone post that it is about 16% of Second Graders are accepted into AAP. And I am not certain that those numbers actually reflect the number of kids participating or the number of kids who are eligible. I know kids who have deferred or returned to their base school. I am not certain how they are treated in the AAP stats.

It is a selective group. Kids are not accepted in the first round and not everyone who appeals is accepted. You do have to have higher test scores, although not everyone is at the 132 bench mark, be doing well in your grade, and receive decent teacher evaluations. Some folks might think that the selection criteria is not rigid enough or set high enough but that does not mean it is not a selective group.

Language immersion programs are not selective. Parents enter a lottery and are invited in if there is space. There are no real requirements to participate in language immersions. I do think that kids can be removed, if they are not learning the language quickly enough or struggling with the writing, but I don't think removal is automatic.

Acceptance is based on a number of factors. There are some people who don't like that kids without the bench mark test scores are accepted but the reality is that the program is not a gifted and talented program but more broad.

As for disruptive kids, there are plenty of anecdotal stories about kids who are disruptive going to AAP, some people even think that AAP acceptance is a motivator for some schools because they want the disruptive kid out of their school and at the Center. I don't think that is true but there are a number of kids with ADHD and LDs and other issues that attend AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of us know exactly how the committee members use the GBRS, test scores, work samples, and other materials in the packet.

I think a kid needs to have a demonstrated need for advanced services in at least one subject, with at least two indications of giftedness in that area (scores, classwork, GBRS, etc.) But, the same kid also has to demonstrate that he or she can handle an advanced program in the other subject areas. At least this would explain some of the inconsistencies:

-Kid A is is all around good and could handle AAP in every subject, but doesn't demonstrate a need for gifted services in anything -> reject
-Kid B demonstrates giftedness in one subject but doesn't look like she can handle AAP in the other-> reject.
-Kid C with lower overall stats than the kids above shows a need for gifted services in say language arts. Kid isn't great in math, but has stats suggesting that he can handle AAP math -> accepted into AAP.

Of course, this is all just spitballing. The process is opaque, and none of us know how the decisions are made.

It's REALLY hard to show a need for "gifted services" when overall all the stats are low, including GBRS and school work grades and samples! (Keep in mind that schools also package DRA and MRA in support of AAP services when those scores come in at "above grade level.")

But having said that, let's be real--AAP does NOT provide an ounce of "gifted services" for the kids who truly are "exceptional" (the favorite catch phrase for AARTs and AAP program officials to use). That is just false propaganda. AAP services are best suited for advanced learners, not "gifted" or "exceptional" learners. So in your above scenario, Kid A is for SURE getting in if his test scores and school package supports that he is an "all around good" candidate; Kid B will get in also if that "one subject" happens to be Math; Kid C is the one where you have to show something in his work that says he just had a "very bad 3 days of testing" and he happens to be a bad "tester" though his work samples and teacher feedback show that he is a great candidate for AAP. Kid C's package will be highly dependent on the teacher/AART feedback that is included.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I believe it is 20% by sixth grade, that includes kids who have moved into the county and accepted, kids who apply in a later grade and private school transfers. I thought I saw someone post that it is about 16% of Second Graders are accepted into AAP. And I am not certain that those numbers actually reflect the number of kids participating or the number of kids who are eligible. I know kids who have deferred or returned to their base school. I am not certain how they are treated in the AAP stats.

It is a selective group. Kids are not accepted in the first round and not everyone who appeals is accepted. You do have to have higher test scores, although not everyone is at the 132 bench mark, be doing well in your grade, and receive decent teacher evaluations. Some folks might think that the selection criteria is not rigid enough or set high enough but that does not mean it is not a selective group.

Last year's dashboard showed 17% of 3rd graders and 23% of 6th graders in AAP. These numbers only include the kids who are both accepted into LIV and receiving LIV services. For example, one of my kids was eligible but deferred AAP. The dashboard stats for the school showed 0 AAP kids. So, they're not including kids who are eligible but aren't participating in AAP.

If you include principal placements in LLIV, it's over 26% receiving LIV AAP services in 3rd-6th grade collectively (from FCAG reports). These reports are a few years old, and new LLIVs have opened in the meantime, so the number of principal placements is most likely higher.

I don't view a program taking 20% as a selective program, but the argument is moreso one of semantics than anything else. I know many, many kids in AAP who are bright, good students, but not gifted or exceptional in any way.

[Anonymous]

We are new to FCPS and trying to decode if the scores are good, as I am seeing conflicting responses on whether a 99% score in COGAT is enough if GBRS is low. He is a shy kid at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are new to FCPS and trying to decode if the scores are good, as I am seeing conflicting responses on whether a 99% score in COGAT is enough if GBRS is low. He is a shy kid at school.

No one on this forum will be able to answer this for you. The selection committee does weird things sometimes.

My guess is that your child will get in with those scores as long as the GBRS and work samples are ok. Unfortunately some teachers are good at recognizing gifted behaviors and some are not. It really depends on the teacher as to whether they can see through the shyness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You got troll answers because I think you already know the answer with a 99% ranking. One of my kids had the same - but also other good scores.

This. Honestly, how could anyone see that their child’s score is on the 99th percentile and legitimately ask not “is he a shoo in?” But “does he have a shot?” Please.

[Anonymous]

It’s very rare that a child with those scores wouldn’t get in. I’ve seen it once or twice when work samples and GBRS were really dismal. In one case, the child got treatment for his anxiety and depression, and he easily got in the next year. I was his teacher the year he got in, and I could provide plenty of evidence of his gifted behaviors. In the other case, the child continued to perform as a low-average student for language arts and average for math the following year. He also told us in depth about the prepping he had done outside of school. In that case, nobody on the committee could provide much evidence of gifted ability (this was a re-eval, as he was in the second grade pool and then parent-referred in third). He was rejected for the center, but we decided to add him to the school-based program in order to give him the opportunity to show more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You got troll answers because I think you already know the answer with a 99% ranking. One of my kids had the same - but also other good scores.

This. Honestly, how could anyone see that their child’s score is on the 99th percentile and legitimately ask not “is he a shoo in?” But “does he have a shot?” Please.

Exactly. A thinly veiled brag.

[Anonymous]

I was the person who posted a sarcastic response to the “humble brag,” and got reported and had my post removed. It must have struck a nerve to say “you forget, all scores over 140 are automatically discarded as the result of ‘prepping.’’

I have seen some pretty ugly stuff on these boards. Overt racism. Personal insults. Disparaging children. But that got reported and taken down. Wow.

[Anonymous]

This is the OP. This really was not intended as a brag. Ever since wemoved to FCPS we have gotten contradicting information on which kids get into AAP. Even his own teacher said that, scores alone is not important, but they need to find other evidence. So I wan inquiring whether this score means a shoo in or if I need to submit more documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was the person who posted a sarcastic response to the “humble brag,” and got reported and had my post removed. It must have struck a nerve to say “you forget, all scores over 140 are automatically discarded as the result of ‘prepping.’’

I have seen some pretty ugly stuff on these boards. Overt racism. Personal insults. Disparaging children. But that got reported and taken down. Wow.

I was the one who reported your comment, and I think more people should do that if you're seeing overt racism, insults and disparaging comments towards children. More people should be reporting it. It's unfair to turn this forum into a place where people are making jabbing comments just to incite.

Whether the OP was "humble bragging" or outright bragging, who the heck cares. The kid received a 140, which is great and all, but it doesn't actually mean much. Whether you prep or not prep, 140 means very little other than your kid is great at mental logic. That may translate well to academics or it may not. So, instead of being snide with the response, you can just respond to the best of your knowledge and cut the OP some slack. For all we know, there may be quite a few parents on here whose kids also received 140+ and in the 99th percentile. And certainly most kids in northern VA and within Fairfax County receive outside tutoring/prepping. It's the rare child that doesn't ... so let's not pretend that it isn't done. Let's just all assume it is done, so that your comment also becomes meaningless--who the heck cares if a kid preps because majority of the kids in FCPS are prepped. Period!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. This really was not intended as a brag. Ever since wemoved to FCPS we have gotten contradicting information on which kids get into AAP. Even his own teacher said that, scores alone is not important, but they need to find other evidence. So I wan inquiring whether this score means a shoo in or if I need to submit more documents.

To answer bluntly, there's no "shoo in" ... even with a 140, your child's package has to show substantiation of that score. The teacher's reference letter, the GBRS and the school samples have to show some merit in order to get in. Hopefully, your AART has been busy collecting samples for your child, and if not, you should definitely ask your AART whether they have enough samples. The reason you are getting conflicting information is because there are cases where kids with 140+ get rejected because the application doesn't support the score. While it's rare, it DOES happen. And, it can happen to your child as well. There's no guarantee that he is getting in just based on score alone.

[Anonymous]

Like I said, I must have struck a nerve. I was also the one who posted the link to the FCPS website. You know, the one with Forms OP could use, and videos that provide guidance on what type of material to submit. But hey, to each their own. FWIW, my dc got over a 140 and I did not prep them. Maybe I am a bit salty that the scores are so readily discounted. Prepping is not as rampant as you may think. Most people I know did not know what the CogAT was, until the teacher said it was coming up. But feel free to report me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You got troll answers because I think you already know the answer with a 99% ranking. One of my kids had the same - but also other good scores.

My kid is in Mensa, had 99% in cogat but was disruptive in class . Not in AAP but doing much better at a real gifted school not in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

I’m the one who said only scores over 150 get in. Honestly OP, if you had posted, “Os he a shoo in with this score or do I need something more” I’d have responded seriously. It was the “Do we have a shot?” That really rubbed me the wrong way and seemed intentionally obtuse and bragging at the same time. It is a strong score. Prepare a strong parent questionnaire and if you have samples great, if you don’t you don’t. The biggest factor in addition to the CpgAT will be the GBRS and you have no control over that. My shy kid had a 16 so don’t assume any means the teacher isn’t seeing his intellectual gifts.