You should have asked — is this still a true dynamic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do agree that men need longer, paid paternity leave. Studies have shown men with longer paternity leave are more involved fathers. I don’t know why more men don’t push for it.

I suspect this is "correlation not causation" -- i.e., the kind of man likely to be an involved dad is more likely to take paternity leave, it was not the leave that caused him to be more involved.

When I discussed paternity leave with my boss, I got a strong "don't do that, not a good career move for you" vibe from him, so I didn't. I bet I'm not the only man who has gotten that reception.

You guys must have married morons. There's a relatively finite series of events that have to happen every day (dinner, clean up, kids fed, kids cleaned up, diapers changed, etc.) and it's really not that hard to figure it out.

Yeah I've been a dad for a long time and I didn't need to be spoon-fed any of that stuff. I make all the meals and I certainly don't need to be told what to make, how to make it, how to find the ingredients, and how to clean up all the mess. I can't imagine being that incompetent, or marrying someone that incompetent.

No, there have been well-controlled, long-term studies showing that the increased paternity leave itself has a large impact on how a father bonds with their child and how involved they are throughout the child's life.

12:12 (man) here and I can see that. It sets the tone if you guys are learning all the baby stuff together vs. the guy having to learn it from the DW.

That said, even setting the baby-related stuff aside I think there are people that have a work ethic and believe in contributing and those that don't. We don't really have a firm division on who does what, we just buckle down and make it happen until all of the work is done. We are typically able to have the kids (1 and 3) in bed and all work completed (i.e. dinner, cleanup, etc.) by 8:30 at the latest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women simply aren’t attracted to men who have home skills. All the middle aged single and divorced guys I know who can both bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan have spotty dating records. These fat football losers have their wives making them sammiches and carting the kids everywhere. It’s not fair but attraction is attraction.

Women don’t want men who have true full capabilities.

Interesting take, yeah a man in dishpan gloves is definitely a mood killer.

Yep. I’ve in fact seen many divorces of couples with capable men. Not so many divorces with men who are dicks who golf and make decent but not huge money in maybe sales etc. makes me shake my head. But again, Attraction is key. There is a huge disparity between what women think they want from what they really want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved in with DH he did my laundry and cooked elaborate meals. After I got pregnant with our first he went into full breadwinner mode. It’s like a switch flipped and he became incredibly focused on maximizing his career success/earning potential. And yes, that means he stopped doing his fair share at home. But I work a similar job for similar pay so this wasn’t working for us at all. After maaaaany long talks about evening the load he has taken over some things. But he doesn’t really do a good job. I am at a loss. I don’t want this dynamic but he refuses to sacrifice a single bit of work time/energy to fix it, and he thinks I’m wrong to even suggest it.

therapy. what he's doing is abusive and unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women simply aren’t attracted to men who have home skills. All the middle aged single and divorced guys I know who can both bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan have spotty dating records. These fat football losers have their wives making them sammiches and carting the kids everywhere. It’s not fair but attraction is attraction.

Women don’t want men who have true full capabilities.

Interesting take, yeah a man in dishpan gloves is definitely a mood killer.

Yep. I’ve in fact seen many divorces of couples with capable men. Not so many divorces with men who are dicks who golf and make decent but not huge money in maybe sales etc. makes me shake my head. But again, Attraction is key. There is a huge disparity between what women think they want from what they really want.

weird MRA troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women simply aren’t attracted to men who have home skills. All the middle aged single and divorced guys I know who can both bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan have spotty dating records. These fat football losers have their wives making them sammiches and carting the kids everywhere. It’s not fair but attraction is attraction.

Women don’t want men who have true full capabilities.

Interesting take, yeah a man in dishpan gloves is definitely a mood killer.

Yep. I’ve in fact seen many divorces of couples with capable men. Not so many divorces with men who are dicks who golf and make decent but not huge money in maybe sales etc. makes me shake my head. But again, Attraction is key. There is a huge disparity between what women think they want from what they really want.

weird MRA troll

No. Married and living in CCDC and not a single man that we know on our block does much around the house except the lawn and leaves. It’s always the women doing the major share of work. The one couple with the guy who was always driving the kids around - wife cheated. True story. Anecdata? Maybe. But then o think of my brothers in other states and extended family. I don’t know a single intact couple where the husband is worth his shit around the house.

[Anonymous]

Yes!
I just had a "conversation" with my husband about this recently. Why, 10 years into the job, is he still acting like he is brand new and has no idea what needs to be done? He wouldn't pull this BS at work. He wouldn't walk in and sit down waiting for someone to tell him what to do. And asking what needs to be done is only marginally better. At work, he might ask on the first day, but he wouldn't still be asking people what needs to be done months or years into it.


And no, not every woman out there runs her household like most difficult task master boss a man has ever come across. As someone said earlier in this thread, there are a finite number of things that need done. It's December. Make sure there are tissues around the house. Unload the dishwasher. Make sure there are diapers and wipes. Get groceries. Cook. Feed kids. Play with kids. It isn't that hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I do agree that men need longer, paid paternity leave. Studies have shown men with longer paternity leave are more involved fathers. I don’t know why more men don’t push for it.

I suspect this is "correlation not causation" -- i.e., the kind of man likely to be an involved dad is more likely to take paternity leave, it was not the leave that caused him to be more involved.

When I discussed paternity leave with my boss, I got a strong "don't do that, not a good career move for you" vibe from him, so I didn't. I bet I'm not the only man who has gotten that reception.

You guys must have married morons. There's a relatively finite series of events that have to happen every day (dinner, clean up, kids fed, kids cleaned up, diapers changed, etc.) and it's really not that hard to figure it out.

Yeah I've been a dad for a long time and I didn't need to be spoon-fed any of that stuff. I make all the meals and I certainly don't need to be told what to make, how to make it, how to find the ingredients, and how to clean up all the mess. I can't imagine being that incompetent, or marrying someone that incompetent.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. If men don't stand up in solidarity and take their paternity leave, then the burden will continue to fall on women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do agree that men need longer, paid paternity leave. Studies have shown men with longer paternity leave are more involved fathers. I don’t know why more men don’t push for it.

I suspect this is "correlation not causation" -- i.e., the kind of man likely to be an involved dad is more likely to take paternity leave, it was not the leave that caused him to be more involved.

When I discussed paternity leave with my boss, I got a strong "don't do that, not a good career move for you" vibe from him, so I didn't. I bet I'm not the only man who has gotten that reception.

You guys must have married morons. There's a relatively finite series of events that have to happen every day (dinner, clean up, kids fed, kids cleaned up, diapers changed, etc.) and it's really not that hard to figure it out.

Yeah I've been a dad for a long time and I didn't need to be spoon-fed any of that stuff. I make all the meals and I certainly don't need to be told what to make, how to make it, how to find the ingredients, and how to clean up all the mess. I can't imagine being that incompetent, or marrying someone that incompetent.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. If men don't stand up in solidarity and take their paternity leave, then the burden will continue to fall on women.

1) men in workplace are generally competitors, so you why take this hit and ear 70c on the dollar like women do? That’s what paternity leave means. 2) of women are waiting for men to fix the workplace so they can fix the home burden, they are sunk.