Parent Engagement at Gentrifying Schools - WaPo feature story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White PTO president here, and it was an interesting read, although, like another poster said, the article read as a promotional piece for Kindred.

It's really tough because the parents that tend to step up to help are white and/or UMC. We flier, send text messages, emails, etc., but we rarely get new faces at our meetings or volunteering at our events. The dad at YY walked into a room, didn't see a lot of faces that looked like his, and walked out. How is that the fault of the PTA leadership? And how would Kindred get him to stay and help?

Kindly, did you read the article? The point is -- that your methods of engagement are literally premised on facilitating involvement of white people. If you want engagement, you have to change what you're doing. Sending out emails and fliers then throwing up your hands is not enough. It is absolutely your fault if you don't make more of an effort. Perhaps you don't care because you just think there's work to be done, and that what you are doing benefits everyone regardless of race. That's not a completely wrong position. But if you are troubled by lack of engagement and think the beginning and end of your responsibility is to send out an email to the listserve -- then yeah, it is your fault.

You do have to try different things and never give up. But look, it's hard. Most of the high-income parents don't engage either. Some people just don't want to do PTA stuff and they wouldn't even if they had far more money. A small PTA has a hard time affording the level of food and childcare that would really make it easy for people to attend. It's a ton of work, people burn out, and it's tiring to be criticized and get little credit for a lot of your efforts. So hang in there, PP.

Got it - so you don't care about parent engagement. That's fine, and you're not wrong that you deserve credit for doing the work. But you will have to withstand the (accurate) criticism that you are not doing the work to create a climate of inclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why all the burden is on the white people to solve the ‘participation gap.’ That seemed to be the assertion of both the article and Kindred — people complaining about white people not doing enough to make them feel welcome.

I understand their is a history and culture gap (eg, school as authority figure vs service provider). The gentrifiers absolutely need to be aware of the differences and manage across them.

But I think, too, that the people used to feeling less empowered need to show up and speak up — that they should try learn something from the gentrifiers.

Kindred seems to focus on the former but not also the latter.

I ... think you need to read the article again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White PTO president here, and it was an interesting read, although, like another poster said, the article read as a promotional piece for Kindred.

It's really tough because the parents that tend to step up to help are white and/or UMC. We flier, send text messages, emails, etc., but we rarely get new faces at our meetings or volunteering at our events. The dad at YY walked into a room, didn't see a lot of faces that looked like his, and walked out. How is that the fault of the PTA leadership? And how would Kindred get him to stay and help?

I'm white and my kid isn't school age yet, so maybe I am off base but one element I thought was missing from the article is the discussion of discrepancy in work flexibility in a lot of gentrifying neighborhoods. UMC/ UC white families that move into gentrifying neighborhoods might have parents with flexible jobs and more seniority, making it easier to volunteer. Or, parents who have just one job and aren't driving uber to make ends meet. This has been covered w/r/t voting and voter suppression. American minorities are less likely to have workplace flexibility than their white counterparts.

Maybe this plays less of a role than I might guess, but if WaPo ever does a follow up, I hope they explore this angle.

DP: Work schedules are definitely an aspect of the challenge. But what’s the solution? That’s why PTAs try to meet at varied times and offer food and childcare, but those things don’t solve the whole problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why all the burden is on the white people to solve the ‘participation gap.’ That seemed to be the assertion of both the article and Kindred — people complaining about white people not doing enough to make them feel welcome.

I understand their is a history and culture gap (eg, school as authority figure vs service provider). The gentrifiers absolutely need to be aware of the differences and manage across them.

But I think, too, that the people used to feeling less empowered need to show up and speak up — that they should try learn something from the gentrifiers.

Kindred seems to focus on the former but not also the latter.

I ... think you need to read the article again?

Please let me know what I missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the article is inspiring, honestly, but they don't say what exactly is in this secret sauce. What is it they're doing, just opening the conversation and having select group of non-involved POC parents take part? If it works, that's great, and I hope our school participates, but...also who is paying them? Can we copy some techniques?

Agree it's an infomercial, a bit short on details, but it certainly caught my attention. I think while we don't really know what their approach actually is, there are any number of things that we need to be doing better to have strong parent communities and what we typically do is not working well enough.

This. What, specifically, is the secret sauce? A paid facilitator? Because I have tried all kinds of things, and hardly anyone, of any background or income level, shows up. What is a school to do if they cannot afford Kindred?

Also, there are a lot of other pressing issues. Engagement is important, yes. But maybe if the PTA a track record of real accomplishments, that would help. Maybe if the school didn't have so many problems, people would be more interested. Doing all these flyers and everything costs money and it isn't working. The school can't even get it together to put the flyers in the backpacks half the time. We can't afford food at meetings yet. I pay the sitter out of my own pocket because so few other children are even there.

Why not read up on organizing techniques in general?

I don't know what the secret sauce is either, but one thing you could do is decide not to take ANY action until you get the input of a broad swath of the school. If that means going to people's houses, tracking them down at drop-off, so be it. For example, my PTA has a HUGE new proposed line-item that is exactly the type of thing to please white UMC people, but I can think of about a million other things we might use it for that would be more equitable (for instance, tutoring to help close the math gap.) A PTA that honestly wanted to be inclusive wouldn't just say "welp, we emailed the budget proposal to everyone and 20 people showed up to vote, so 15% of our annual budget will go to a GMO-free emotion coaching clown in every PK classroom! we were as inclusive as possible!"

A PTA that actually wanted to be inclusive would NOT have proposed that line item in the first place, and would instead have developed a menu of options that respond to different constituencies at the school, and done more active outreach. Even if you can't get everyone to come and vote, you can understand their preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why all the burden is on the white people to solve the ‘participation gap.’ That seemed to be the assertion of both the article and Kindred — people complaining about white people not doing enough to make them feel welcome.

I understand their is a history and culture gap (eg, school as authority figure vs service provider). The gentrifiers absolutely need to be aware of the differences and manage across them.

But I think, too, that the people used to feeling less empowered need to show up and speak up — that they should try learn something from the gentrifiers.

Kindred seems to focus on the former but not also the latter.

I ... think you need to read the article again?

Please let me know what I missed.

You missed the entire point, and my guess is that you don't want to get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White PTO president here, and it was an interesting read, although, like another poster said, the article read as a promotional piece for Kindred.

It's really tough because the parents that tend to step up to help are white and/or UMC. We flier, send text messages, emails, etc., but we rarely get new faces at our meetings or volunteering at our events. The dad at YY walked into a room, didn't see a lot of faces that looked like his, and walked out. How is that the fault of the PTA leadership? And how would Kindred get him to stay and help?

Kindly, did you read the article? The point is -- that your methods of engagement are literally premised on facilitating involvement of white people. If you want engagement, you have to change what you're doing. Sending out emails and fliers then throwing up your hands is not enough. It is absolutely your fault if you don't make more of an effort. Perhaps you don't care because you just think there's work to be done, and that what you are doing benefits everyone regardless of race. That's not a completely wrong position. But if you are troubled by lack of engagement and think the beginning and end of your responsibility is to send out an email to the listserve -- then yeah, it is your fault.

You do have to try different things and never give up. But look, it's hard. Most of the high-income parents don't engage either. Some people just don't want to do PTA stuff and they wouldn't even if they had far more money. A small PTA has a hard time affording the level of food and childcare that would really make it easy for people to attend. It's a ton of work, people burn out, and it's tiring to be criticized and get little credit for a lot of your efforts. So hang in there, PP.

Got it - so you don't care about parent engagement. That's fine, and you're not wrong that you deserve credit for doing the work. But you will have to withstand the (accurate) criticism that you are not doing the work to create a climate of inclusion.

Huh? I said that you do have to try. You're being really rude. Some people really just don't want to do PTA and that's okay to acknowledge. I'm so burnt out I don't even want to do it myself.

Parent engagement is a priority but it isn't the only priority. And sometimes a PTA with a few accomplishments seems more attractive to people to participate in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the article is inspiring, honestly, but they don't say what exactly is in this secret sauce. What is it they're doing, just opening the conversation and having select group of non-involved POC parents take part? If it works, that's great, and I hope our school participates, but...also who is paying them? Can we copy some techniques?

Agree it's an infomercial, a bit short on details, but it certainly caught my attention. I think while we don't really know what their approach actually is, there are any number of things that we need to be doing better to have strong parent communities and what we typically do is not working well enough.

This. What, specifically, is the secret sauce? A paid facilitator? Because I have tried all kinds of things, and hardly anyone, of any background or income level, shows up. What is a school to do if they cannot afford Kindred?

Also, there are a lot of other pressing issues. Engagement is important, yes. But maybe if the PTA a track record of real accomplishments, that would help. Maybe if the school didn't have so many problems, people would be more interested. Doing all these flyers and everything costs money and it isn't working. The school can't even get it together to put the flyers in the backpacks half the time. We can't afford food at meetings yet. I pay the sitter out of my own pocket because so few other children are even there.

Why not read up on organizing techniques in general?

I don't know what the secret sauce is either, but one thing you could do is decide not to take ANY action until you get the input of a broad swath of the school. If that means going to people's houses, tracking them down at drop-off, so be it. For example, my PTA has a HUGE new proposed line-item that is exactly the type of thing to please white UMC people, but I can think of about a million other things we might use it for that would be more equitable (for instance, tutoring to help close the math gap.) A PTA that honestly wanted to be inclusive wouldn't just say "welp, we emailed the budget proposal to everyone and 20 people showed up to vote, so 15% of our annual budget will go to a GMO-free emotion coaching clown in every PK classroom! we were as inclusive as possible!"

A PTA that actually wanted to be inclusive would NOT have proposed that line item in the first place, and would instead have developed a menu of options that respond to different constituencies at the school, and done more active outreach. Even if you can't get everyone to come and vote, you can understand their preferences.

I don't think people would like being visited at their homes. That seems really intrusive. Also, the school isn't supposed to give out address information to the PTA. Even if they did, are you volunteering to spend your time driving all over the city to accomplish this? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White PTO president here, and it was an interesting read, although, like another poster said, the article read as a promotional piece for Kindred.

It's really tough because the parents that tend to step up to help are white and/or UMC. We flier, send text messages, emails, etc., but we rarely get new faces at our meetings or volunteering at our events. The dad at YY walked into a room, didn't see a lot of faces that looked like his, and walked out. How is that the fault of the PTA leadership? And how would Kindred get him to stay and help?

I'm white and my kid isn't school age yet, so maybe I am off base but one element I thought was missing from the article is the discussion of discrepancy in work flexibility in a lot of gentrifying neighborhoods. UMC/ UC white families that move into gentrifying neighborhoods might have parents with flexible jobs and more seniority, making it easier to volunteer. Or, parents who have just one job and aren't driving uber to make ends meet. This has been covered w/r/t voting and voter suppression. American minorities are less likely to have workplace flexibility than their white counterparts.

Maybe this plays less of a role than I might guess, but if WaPo ever does a follow up, I hope they explore this angle.

Yes, this is an element. Also, that just because folks don't show up to the meetings does not mean they don't want the info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the article is inspiring, honestly, but they don't say what exactly is in this secret sauce. What is it they're doing, just opening the conversation and having select group of non-involved POC parents take part? If it works, that's great, and I hope our school participates, but...also who is paying them? Can we copy some techniques?

Agree it's an infomercial, a bit short on details, but it certainly caught my attention. I think while we don't really know what their approach actually is, there are any number of things that we need to be doing better to have strong parent communities and what we typically do is not working well enough.

This. What, specifically, is the secret sauce? A paid facilitator? Because I have tried all kinds of things, and hardly anyone, of any background or income level, shows up. What is a school to do if they cannot afford Kindred?

Also, there are a lot of other pressing issues. Engagement is important, yes. But maybe if the PTA a track record of real accomplishments, that would help. Maybe if the school didn't have so many problems, people would be more interested. Doing all these flyers and everything costs money and it isn't working. The school can't even get it together to put the flyers in the backpacks half the time. We can't afford food at meetings yet. I pay the sitter out of my own pocket because so few other children are even there.

Why not read up on organizing techniques in general?

I don't know what the secret sauce is either, but one thing you could do is decide not to take ANY action until you get the input of a broad swath of the school. If that means going to people's houses, tracking them down at drop-off, so be it. For example, my PTA has a HUGE new proposed line-item that is exactly the type of thing to please white UMC people, but I can think of about a million other things we might use it for that would be more equitable (for instance, tutoring to help close the math gap.) A PTA that honestly wanted to be inclusive wouldn't just say "welp, we emailed the budget proposal to everyone and 20 people showed up to vote, so 15% of our annual budget will go to a GMO-free emotion coaching clown in every PK classroom! we were as inclusive as possible!"

A PTA that actually wanted to be inclusive would NOT have proposed that line item in the first place, and would instead have developed a menu of options that respond to different constituencies at the school, and done more active outreach. Even if you can't get everyone to come and vote, you can understand their preferences.

I don't think people would like being visited at their homes. That seems really intrusive. Also, the school isn't supposed to give out address information to the PTA. Even if they did, are you volunteering to spend your time driving all over the city to accomplish this? Come on.

Again - fine. You do you. But the result will be lack of inclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why all the burden is on the white people to solve the ‘participation gap.’ That seemed to be the assertion of both the article and Kindred — people complaining about white people not doing enough to make them feel welcome.

I understand their is a history and culture gap (eg, school as authority figure vs service provider). The gentrifiers absolutely need to be aware of the differences and manage across them.

But I think, too, that the people used to feeling less empowered need to show up and speak up — that they should try learn something from the gentrifiers.

Kindred seems to focus on the former but not also the latter.

I ... think you need to read the article again?

Please let me know what I missed.

You missed the entire point, and my guess is that you don't want to get it.

I read the article and I believe I got the point. I understand that long-term residents can feel the advocacy efforts of gentrifiers is off-putting and I inclusive. I understand that Kindred is working to bring diverse groups together for conversation. But the examples described the gentrifiers gaining greater understanding of the long-term residents but no mention of the reverse.

My question is sincere, although you may find it politically incorrect.

[Anonymous]

^^ uninclusive not “I inclusive”

[Anonymous]

This article is bullsh*t. It says nothing about how Yu Ying is inhospitable in so many ways to low-income families and that's why its at-risk percentage is rock bottom low. Come on WaPo. Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the article is inspiring, honestly, but they don't say what exactly is in this secret sauce. What is it they're doing, just opening the conversation and having select group of non-involved POC parents take part? If it works, that's great, and I hope our school participates, but...also who is paying them? Can we copy some techniques?

Agree it's an infomercial, a bit short on details, but it certainly caught my attention. I think while we don't really know what their approach actually is, there are any number of things that we need to be doing better to have strong parent communities and what we typically do is not working well enough.

This. What, specifically, is the secret sauce? A paid facilitator? Because I have tried all kinds of things, and hardly anyone, of any background or income level, shows up. What is a school to do if they cannot afford Kindred?

Also, there are a lot of other pressing issues. Engagement is important, yes. But maybe if the PTA a track record of real accomplishments, that would help. Maybe if the school didn't have so many problems, people would be more interested. Doing all these flyers and everything costs money and it isn't working. The school can't even get it together to put the flyers in the backpacks half the time. We can't afford food at meetings yet. I pay the sitter out of my own pocket because so few other children are even there.

Why not read up on organizing techniques in general?

I don't know what the secret sauce is either, but one thing you could do is decide not to take ANY action until you get the input of a broad swath of the school. If that means going to people's houses, tracking them down at drop-off, so be it. For example, my PTA has a HUGE new proposed line-item that is exactly the type of thing to please white UMC people, but I can think of about a million other things we might use it for that would be more equitable (for instance, tutoring to help close the math gap.) A PTA that honestly wanted to be inclusive wouldn't just say "welp, we emailed the budget proposal to everyone and 20 people showed up to vote, so 15% of our annual budget will go to a GMO-free emotion coaching clown in every PK classroom! we were as inclusive as possible!"

A PTA that actually wanted to be inclusive would NOT have proposed that line item in the first place, and would instead have developed a menu of options that respond to different constituencies at the school, and done more active outreach. Even if you can't get everyone to come and vote, you can understand their preferences.

I don't think people would like being visited at their homes. That seems really intrusive. Also, the school isn't supposed to give out address information to the PTA. Even if they did, are you volunteering to spend your time driving all over the city to accomplish this? Come on.

Again - fine. You do you. But the result will be lack of inclusion.

You're really rude. And I'm aghast that you think going door to door is a good idea. How are you going to get the addresses?

Tell me, have you stepped up to do this work at your school? What has been successful for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the article is inspiring, honestly, but they don't say what exactly is in this secret sauce. What is it they're doing, just opening the conversation and having select group of non-involved POC parents take part? If it works, that's great, and I hope our school participates, but...also who is paying them? Can we copy some techniques?

Agree it's an infomercial, a bit short on details, but it certainly caught my attention. I think while we don't really know what their approach actually is, there are any number of things that we need to be doing better to have strong parent communities and what we typically do is not working well enough.

This. What, specifically, is the secret sauce? A paid facilitator? Because I have tried all kinds of things, and hardly anyone, of any background or income level, shows up. What is a school to do if they cannot afford Kindred?

Also, there are a lot of other pressing issues. Engagement is important, yes. But maybe if the PTA a track record of real accomplishments, that would help. Maybe if the school didn't have so many problems, people would be more interested. Doing all these flyers and everything costs money and it isn't working. The school can't even get it together to put the flyers in the backpacks half the time. We can't afford food at meetings yet. I pay the sitter out of my own pocket because so few other children are even there.

Why not read up on organizing techniques in general?

I don't know what the secret sauce is either, but one thing you could do is decide not to take ANY action until you get the input of a broad swath of the school. If that means going to people's houses, tracking them down at drop-off, so be it. For example, my PTA has a HUGE new proposed line-item that is exactly the type of thing to please white UMC people, but I can think of about a million other things we might use it for that would be more equitable (for instance, tutoring to help close the math gap.) A PTA that honestly wanted to be inclusive wouldn't just say "welp, we emailed the budget proposal to everyone and 20 people showed up to vote, so 15% of our annual budget will go to a GMO-free emotion coaching clown in every PK classroom! we were as inclusive as possible!"

A PTA that actually wanted to be inclusive would NOT have proposed that line item in the first place, and would instead have developed a menu of options that respond to different constituencies at the school, and done more active outreach. Even if you can't get everyone to come and vote, you can understand their preferences.

NP here but this is an insane ask. If the job requires 10+ hours/week of unpaid work then most people wouldn't be willing to do it. Then the schools stay failing and that's bad for all the kids, but especially those without access to the better alternatives.