Agnostics visiting slightly religious family members for Xmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:by not exposing your children to religion now, you are 99% assuring that they will not be religious as adults either. that is your choice of course, but let's not pretend allowing them to decide later on is really realistic.

if you really were open, then why not expose them to different religions now as kids, and then let them decide for themsevles as adults?

This is such a ridicoulour statement. I know lots of people who grew up in non-religious households and then became true beleivers in college and even later on in life. The reverse is also true (self included), unless you keep your kid in some very restricted environment what you expose them to as children will not necessarily stick into adulthood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would prep your child with "some people, like Aunt blah blah, believe..... fill in the basic facts about Jesus. Also tell your child what YOU think which is that you don't think anybody really knows the truth about Jesus or God and lots of people all around the world think different things.

This is what I did. I also threw in some basic info on prayer and how we are expected to act when someone else is praying.

Ahh yes, this is good, regardless of our (non-)beliefs, we should definitely teach our kids to be respectful when others are praying.

Well, if you don't like them praying in the presence of your children, then don't go to their house for a holiday they view as religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anything they take away from the PITA or others can be sorted out later. You are a much stronger influence than random relatives.

I think though that by teaching your kid the basics in advance, you may be able to avoid or minimize the, "What are you doing Auntie.... who was Jesus.... what's a prayer..... etc. etc. that you are bound to get with a little kid. Deprive Auntie of her chance to pontificate.

Not that the child isn't allowed to ask questions, if they do, so be it. But you prepare them so Auntie's mumbling at the table before the meal is less of a curiosity.

And if you don't teach your child about Jesus by the age of, oh, three, somebody else will, believe me. I am Wiccan and my child already knows all about Jesus, thanks to SECULAR preschools and public elementary school! My child came home from preschool one day and had apparently been taught about the Devil by her Christian friends! Not happy about that one....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, if you don't like them praying in the presence of your children, then don't go to their house for a holiday they view as religious.

Why are you grumpy? I thought the PP was sincere. No?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:by not exposing your children to religion now, you are 99% assuring that they will not be religious as adults either. that is your choice of course, but let's not pretend allowing them to decide later on is really realistic.

if you really were open, then why not expose them to different religions now as kids, and then let them decide for themsevles as adults?

This is such a ridicoulour statement. I know lots of people who grew up in non-religious households and then became true beleivers in college and even later on in life. The reverse is also true (self included), unless you keep your kid in some very restricted environment what you expose them to as children will not necessarily stick into adulthood.

I agree with the original statement. I was raised in a religion and now I am not religious. But it is very hard for people to come entirely to religion late in life, so that those who do often end up being fanatical. Despite the fact that I don't believe, I'll be taking my children to sunday school when they are old enough. When they are older still, I tell them what I believe and what others believe, including their father.

I don't actually understand how OP's child got to age 5 without them ever having had a discussion about religion.

[Anonymous]

If I were you, I would just tell your child what Christmas is. Not that "some people" like to do this or that on Christmas - Christmas is a Christian holiday, it is a day for Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I'm not denying all the secular things we have added to Christmas, but I'd tell my child simply that we are going to the home of people who are Christian, this is a major holiday in their religion, and this is what they believe and this is why they are celebrating/observing this day. Then let the child ask any questions.

I'd also explain that we are respectful of different religions and so we will observe (or participate, if there is anything you're comfortable participating in) the way this family celebrates the holiday. Of course you'll tell your child we are not Christian so this is not our religion nor is this a day we celebrate, but these are family members and we can respect and learn about what they believe and what they celebrate.

It's essentially what you would do if you actively practice one religion and you went to the home of someone of a different religion for one of their holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were you, I would just tell your child what Christmas is. Not that "some people" like to do this or that on Christmas - Christmas is a Christian holiday, it is a day for Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I'm not denying all the secular things we have added to Christmas, but I'd tell my child simply that we are going to the home of people who are Christian, this is a major holiday in their religion, and this is what they believe and this is why they are celebrating/observing this day. Then let the child ask any questions.

I'd also explain that we are respectful of different religions and so we will observe (or participate, if there is anything you're comfortable participating in) the way this family celebrates the holiday. Of course you'll tell your child we are not Christian so this is not our religion nor is this a day we celebrate, but these are family members and we can respect and learn about what they believe and what they celebrate.

It's essentially what you would do if you actively practice one religion and you went to the home of someone of a different religion for one of their holidays.

Follow this advice if you also want your child to believe Dec. 25 is Jesus' birthday.

[Anonymous]

"if you really were open, then why not expose them to different religions now as kids, and then let them decide for themsevles as adults?"

This

" Here's your chance to teach the lessons about diversity, and good manners. It isn't a time to teach your kids about your belief/not in God, but what I hope is your belief in tolerance."

And this.

My son is a bit younger and is just becoming aware of difference, so I don't feel the need to prep him yet that others believe differently. But if a family member sends him a book or advent calender that mentions Jesus or religion, I won't have a problem. And if he asks to go to church with our religious family members while we are visiting, or if they suggest they take him, I won't have any issue with it because I think that he should be exposed to what others believe. I will intervene if someone expresses a belief that I think shows an intolerance towards other religious views, to include any statements that non-believers will go to hell, etc.

[Anonymous]

This is a critical time to teach them about the different cultures of religion, be it Christianity, Judaism, or Islam (not to mention all the others). The predominant characters of these religions are HISTORICALLY important are arguably the leading causes of strife around the world, as well as good acts. SO, do not be fearful of the exposure, truly look at it as another cultural experience and how enriched your kids are by this info. If the family pushes it, just smile and say to you kids "Aunt Linda REALLY believes in this!" Nothing more needs to be said. Truly.

[Anonymous]

Follow this advice if you also want your child to believe Dec. 25 is Jesus' birthday.

What, specifically, was wrong with the advice you quoted? What is wrong with saying "Christians [or Muslims, or Jews, or Wiccans, etc.] believe X and here is how they celebrate/observe it"?

It's rude to go to someone's home for a holiday that is very important to their religious beliefs and act like it's silly just because you don't share those beliefs. Christmas is a holy day in the Christian tradition. You don't have to celebrate it, but if you're going to the home of someone who does, I would think you would want to know what the holiday is so you could behave respectfully in that context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:by not exposing your children to religion now, you are 99% assuring that they will not be religious as adults either. that is your choice of course, but let's not pretend allowing them to decide later on is really realistic.

if you really were open, then why not expose them to different religions now as kids, and then let them decide for themsevles as adults?

I totally agree with this. The whole "let them choose later" approach often ends up the kids not doing anything. Which, in my opinion, is sad.

[Anonymous]

I think what make me uncomfortable is the statement, “tell them what Christmas IS”. Christmas is not one thing to all people. Maybe Christmas WAS the celebration of the birth of Jesus, but, sorry, now it has evolved into more than that. And there was also a mid-winter celebration (Not called by the word “Christmas” obviously but many of the same symbols and themes were incorporated) BEFORE Christianity took it over and made it their own. This time of year is sacred to many more religions than just Christianity. Our overwhelmingly Judeo Christian culture has simply selected - and you might say, enforced on the rest of us – 12/25 as THE day when our offices are closed and our communities celebrate.

This is why I think “some people believe” is more accurate, culturally and historically, then saying, to quote that poster “Christmas is a Christian holiday, it is a day for Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus”. If I give my child this definition, and we don’t believe in Jesus and we’re not Christian, then how does it make any sense that we celebrate Christmas in our house? Or more specifically in this post, where does that leave the OP and her child who are, I believe, agnostic?

Personally, as a fellow agnostic like the OP, I am more comfortable with “Some people believe, including Aunt Annie, x y and z….”. Not presenting this as Jesus’ birthday as a FACT; but a belief of SOME people, not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what make me uncomfortable is the statement, “tell them what Christmas IS”. Christmas is not one thing to all people. Maybe Christmas WAS the celebration of the birth of Jesus, but, sorry, now it has evolved into more than that. And there was also a mid-winter celebration (Not called by the word “Christmas” obviously but many of the same symbols and themes were incorporated) BEFORE Christianity took it over and made it their own. This time of year is sacred to many more religions than just Christianity. Our overwhelmingly Judeo Christian culture has simply selected - and you might say, enforced on the rest of us – 12/25 as THE day when our offices are closed and our communities celebrate.

This is why I think “some people believe” is more accurate, culturally and historically, then saying, to quote that poster “Christmas is a Christian holiday, it is a day for Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus”. If I give my child this definition, and we don’t believe in Jesus and we’re not Christian, then how does it make any sense that we celebrate Christmas in our house? Or more specifically in this post, where does that leave the OP and her child who are, I believe, agnostic?

Personally, as a fellow agnostic like the OP, I am more comfortable with “Some people believe, including Aunt Annie, x y and z….”. Not presenting this as Jesus’ birthday as a FACT; but a belief of SOME people, not all.

ummm, it makes zero sense because "christmas" is the mass for Christ. if you don't believe in christ, don't call whatever you do "christmas" ....

[Anonymous]

The WORD Christmas is the mass of Christ. But that doesn't change the fact that the longest night of the year (or thereabouts) is celebrated by many people who DON'T believe in Christ. English is a living and evolving language; the word may have once referred specifically to Jesus' birthday but has evolved to encompass many other traditions that surround this time of year.

Halloween is also a Christian holiday (taken from pagan roots). Do you see anything remotely religious about kids in costumes going around the neighborhood for candy?

[Anonymous]

PS if it makes you feel better we'll call it the Yuletide or Winter Solstice or hanukkah or even kwannzaa. But we'll still have a tree and open presents on Dec 25 whether our family beliefs fit with your definition of "Christmas" or not.