Asking for Advice - Rejection from Oyster-Adams Preschool

[Anonymous]

Did you or your wife take your child to the test?

It is not unheard of for people who trying to game the system for Spanish dominance lottery spot as these are easier to get.

If your wife was there and consoling your child in English, it could be a flag as the spot is "Spanish Dominant"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is mean, but your post was only about you and where you lived. Does your child actually speak Spanish BACK to you? If not, that's obviously what showed during testing.

I don't think it's mean. The Spanish dominance test is about what language the child speaks, not what language the parents speak.

They are used to testing three-year-olds, so the fact that she was hesitant or shy shouldn't have been an issue. Lots of three-year-olds are. But if they spoke to her in Spanish and she answered in English, or appeared not to understand, they are likely going to categorize her as not Spanish dominant. If her mother speaks English, it's quite possible that is her default language--when people speak to her in Spanish, does she answer in Spanish? What about when they speak to her in English? What language does she use when she hurts herself or needs help?

You can certainly contact the principal and DCPS and ask for her to be retested and her spot reconsidered, but I'd base it on her nervousness. It's not clear what the unfairness could be--she took the same Spanish test as all the other kids who received a spot based on claimed Spanish dominance.

Without knowing anything about this testing, and yet knowing the child was assumed to be about to fail the test - we can't assume it was in any way fair! I would be super pissed. This is a highly coveted spot. I know some may try to get by on just their nanny speaking Spanish but this wasn't the case. Also, knowing my own child, I can imagine her being so nervous as to make it impossible to tell if she understands what is being said to her, especially in a room separated from parents with a stranger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is mean, but your post was only about you and where you lived. Does your child actually speak Spanish BACK to you? If not, that's obviously what showed during testing.

I don't think it's mean. The Spanish dominance test is about what language the child speaks, not what language the parents speak.

They are used to testing three-year-olds, so the fact that she was hesitant or shy shouldn't have been an issue. Lots of three-year-olds are. But if they spoke to her in Spanish and she answered in English, or appeared not to understand, they are likely going to categorize her as not Spanish dominant. If her mother speaks English, it's quite possible that is her default language--when people speak to her in Spanish, does she answer in Spanish? What about when they speak to her in English? What language does she use when she hurts herself or needs help?

You can certainly contact the principal and DCPS and ask for her to be retested and her spot reconsidered, but I'd base it on her nervousness. It's not clear what the unfairness could be--she took the same Spanish test as all the other kids who received a spot based on claimed Spanish dominance.

Without knowing anything about this testing, and yet knowing the child was assumed to be about to fail the test - we can't assume it was in any way fair! I would be super pissed. This is a highly coveted spot. I know some may try to get by on just their nanny speaking Spanish but this wasn't the case. Also, knowing my own child, I can imagine her being so nervous as to make it impossible to tell if she understands what is being said to her, especially in a room separated from parents with a stranger.

And yet, many students pass this evaluation every year. OP was not singled out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is mean, but your post was only about you and where you lived. Does your child actually speak Spanish BACK to you? If not, that's obviously what showed during testing.

I don't think it's mean. The Spanish dominance test is about what language the child speaks, not what language the parents speak.

They are used to testing three-year-olds, so the fact that she was hesitant or shy shouldn't have been an issue. Lots of three-year-olds are. But if they spoke to her in Spanish and she answered in English, or appeared not to understand, they are likely going to categorize her as not Spanish dominant. If her mother speaks English, it's quite possible that is her default language--when people speak to her in Spanish, does she answer in Spanish? What about when they speak to her in English? What language does she use when she hurts herself or needs help?

You can certainly contact the principal and DCPS and ask for her to be retested and her spot reconsidered, but I'd base it on her nervousness. It's not clear what the unfairness could be--she took the same Spanish test as all the other kids who received a spot based on claimed Spanish dominance.

Without knowing anything about this testing, and yet knowing the child was assumed to be about to fail the test - we can't assume it was in any way fair! I would be super pissed. This is a highly coveted spot. I know some may try to get by on just their nanny speaking Spanish but this wasn't the case. Also, knowing my own child, I can imagine her being so nervous as to make it impossible to tell if she understands what is being said to her, especially in a room separated from parents with a stranger.

I'm sorry OP - I would be very mad too, especially since you may have had a shot at a different school in the lottery. It seems to me that they should give a second look to children where there's such strong evidence of Spanish dominance/support at home, like your family. How a 3 year old behaves for 30 minutes in unfamiliar circumstances, separated from her parents, should not be the only factor. However ... if you're mad at the school and don't trust it, I would just move on. There's no sense investing energy into it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is mean, but your post was only about you and where you lived. Does your child actually speak Spanish BACK to you? If not, that's obviously what showed during testing.

I don't think it's mean. The Spanish dominance test is about what language the child speaks, not what language the parents speak.

They are used to testing three-year-olds, so the fact that she was hesitant or shy shouldn't have been an issue. Lots of three-year-olds are. But if they spoke to her in Spanish and she answered in English, or appeared not to understand, they are likely going to categorize her as not Spanish dominant. If her mother speaks English, it's quite possible that is her default language--when people speak to her in Spanish, does she answer in Spanish? What about when they speak to her in English? What language does she use when she hurts herself or needs help?

You can certainly contact the principal and DCPS and ask for her to be retested and her spot reconsidered, but I'd base it on her nervousness. It's not clear what the unfairness could be--she took the same Spanish test as all the other kids who received a spot based on claimed Spanish dominance.

Without knowing anything about this testing, and yet knowing the child was assumed to be about to fail the test - we can't assume it was in any way fair! I would be super pissed. This is a highly coveted spot. I know some may try to get by on just their nanny speaking Spanish but this wasn't the case. Also, knowing my own child, I can imagine her being so nervous as to make it impossible to tell if she understands what is being said to her, especially in a room separated from parents with a stranger.

And yet, many students pass this evaluation every year. OP was not singled out.

Right, but given that parents pass up other lottery options, it would be fair to have an appeals process for kids just like OPs: one parent is a native speaker, and the child was raised in a Spanish speaking country. I'm not sure what shutting out kids like that without a second look really gains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is mean, but your post was only about you and where you lived. Does your child actually speak Spanish BACK to you? If not, that's obviously what showed during testing.

I don't think it's mean. The Spanish dominance test is about what language the child speaks, not what language the parents speak.

They are used to testing three-year-olds, so the fact that she was hesitant or shy shouldn't have been an issue. Lots of three-year-olds are. But if they spoke to her in Spanish and she answered in English, or appeared not to understand, they are likely going to categorize her as not Spanish dominant. If her mother speaks English, it's quite possible that is her default language--when people speak to her in Spanish, does she answer in Spanish? What about when they speak to her in English? What language does she use when she hurts herself or needs help?

You can certainly contact the principal and DCPS and ask for her to be retested and her spot reconsidered, but I'd base it on her nervousness. It's not clear what the unfairness could be--she took the same Spanish test as all the other kids who received a spot based on claimed Spanish dominance.

Without knowing anything about this testing, and yet knowing the child was assumed to be about to fail the test - we can't assume it was in any way fair! I would be super pissed. This is a highly coveted spot. I know some may try to get by on just their nanny speaking Spanish but this wasn't the case. Also, knowing my own child, I can imagine her being so nervous as to make it impossible to tell if she understands what is being said to her, especially in a room separated from parents with a stranger.

I'm sorry OP - I would be very mad too, especially since you may have had a shot at a different school in the lottery. It seems to me that they should give a second look to children where there's such strong evidence of Spanish dominance/support at home, like your family. How a 3 year old behaves for 30 minutes in unfamiliar circumstances, separated from her parents, should not be the only factor. However ... if you're mad at the school and don't trust it, I would just move on. There's no sense investing energy into it now.

I would also call My School DC and see if she can be re-added to the waitlists for anything that may have fallen off below on your list. That seems quite reasonable in this circumstance. I do not know how this might work but maybe they have some recourse.

[Anonymous]

Get on the post-lottery list for Bethune 16th Street.

[Anonymous]

OP - who took your daughter to the test? If it was you, did they assume that your are a native English (only) speaker? I ask because the one Panamanian parent that I know well is one of the few absolutely bilingual people that I know -- unlike people (like me) who are merely fluent in both languages but have a slight accent in one, he has no accent whatsoever in either language. I could see that leading to misunderstanding.

[Anonymous]

What is the criteria for Spanish dominance? I am not trying to be rude, but I really don't know. At what point is a bilingual child considered Spanish dominant? Is it merely proficiency, or do you need to prove more? As someone pointed out, is the "dominant" language the language they speak in their mind, the language they speak when they are hurt or scared?

Could it be that while your child is clearly bilingual, she is not sufficiently "dominant" in the Spanish language?

[Anonymous]

You should appeal the process. It is strange that if your kid speaks Spanish, she couldn’t pass the test. Did you get any feedback from the teacher who did the test? Where you in the school the day of the test?

My situation is similar than yours, my kid spoke both languages and the school was very understanding of bilingual kids. Raised in one language (Spanish) but living in an English Speaking country.

I will recommend you the school, I will almost suggest that you take the kid to the school and speak in person with the principal or the assistant principal (sra Berrocal).

[Anonymous]

Odd. I have friends with Spanish dominant kids, and they didn't have an issue with the test. I heard it was pretty basic to screen out those who had no knowledge whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, a child who spent 2 years in Panama with an English-speaking primary caregiver and the last year in the US with one English-speaking parent who spent more time with her and a Spanish-speaking parent talking with her on evenings and weekends might not actually be Spanish-dominant.

Not saying that's OP's kid's situation. She obviously does speak and understand Spanish. But Spanish fluency does not equal Spanish dominance. Maybe the test shouldn't be dominance. But that's what it currently is.

[Anonymous]

OP: I would highly recommend you contact MSDC and the Ombudsperson. Even it if turns out you don't want to (or can't) do anything about the Oyster rejection, you were not attempting to cheat the system but had a good faith/reasonable belief that your kid qualified; that should be enough to at least get your lottery spots back at any school you WLed (realistically, that may mean being placed as #1 on the appropriate WLs, but that should be enough to get in somewhere).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, a child who spent 2 years in Panama with an English-speaking primary caregiver and the last year in the US with one English-speaking parent who spent more time with her and a Spanish-speaking parent talking with her on evenings and weekends might not actually be Spanish-dominant.

Not saying that's OP's kid's situation. She obviously does speak and understand Spanish. But Spanish fluency does not equal Spanish dominance. Maybe the test shouldn't be dominance. But that's what it currently is.

Not really. The test is more about Spanish fluency, not dominance which in most cases would indicate ELL. If it were about dominance that would 1) be harder to test for and 2) rule out a lot of kids who I know have passed the test.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for your responses! It helps knowing different perspectives.

As for some of your questions: While we were in Panama, we had Spanish speaking nannies, Spanish speaking dance classes and Spanish speaking friends. She came to DC with very strong Spanish. Of course, the exposure has shifted since we moved, but she still receives quite good exposure. Even our neighbors and other people we know around here thought she was more than qualified for the Spanish dominant program. Oyster was in-boundary for us and we live close to the school, so we could have opted for the English program. Unfortunately, this also meant that my daughter was not wait-listed in any other school.

As for me, I am fully fluent in English to the point that it's hard for people to tell where I am from. Nevertheless, Spanish is my native language.

Anyway, appreciate the support (and the hate).

Thanks,

Diego