UMC parents in low income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

The PTA President doesn't get to make all the decisions. Even the Board doesn't get to make all decisions. Votes should be open to members at meetings to vote on budget items. Anyone can propose an amendment on the floor for a public vote. Get more involved in your PTA and more educated on how PTA is *supposed* to work, then you can effect change. If there is an issue with the PTA board at your local school, go to your Cluster Coordinator or Area VP for support. Contact the MCCPTA if you don't know who your cluster coordinator or Area VP are.

I suggest you read the article. You can't expect poor, non-English speaking parents who barely have a high school education if that to walk into a PTA meeting and take on the 4-5 mothers with advanced degrees who are controlling everything by calling for a floor vote and an amendment to get interpreters. The point of the article is that the low income parents are intimidated by them and have neither the time nor debate skills to prevail.

Have YOU ever even been to a PTA meeting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

Your argument makes sense but no fundraising organization is eager to pay the going professional rate for a service that could be donated in kind. It's certainly not fair to expect the teachers to provide this, but finding HS students seems like the best solution for everyone. Our school always found parent volunteers.

I'm talking about an MCPS interpreter, which would cost an extremely affordable rate. Certainly less than what was spent for book fair decorations that the kids didn't even notice or appreciate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

Your argument makes sense but no fundraising organization is eager to pay the going professional rate for a service that could be donated in kind. It's certainly not fair to expect the teachers to provide this, but finding HS students seems like the best solution for everyone. Our school always found parent volunteers.

I'm talking about an MCPS interpreter, which would cost an extremely affordable rate. Certainly less than what was spent for book fair decorations that the kids didn't even notice or appreciate.

Affordability is not the issue here. Unless MCPS make clear rules on how money can be spent on interpreter services, I would not do that. If you hire interpreters for Spanish, how about other languages? How many parents are needed to get one interpreter? Or only the largest ethnic group gets one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

The PTA President doesn't get to make all the decisions. Even the Board doesn't get to make all decisions. Votes should be open to members at meetings to vote on budget items. Anyone can propose an amendment on the floor for a public vote. Get more involved in your PTA and more educated on how PTA is *supposed* to work, then you can effect change. If there is an issue with the PTA board at your local school, go to your Cluster Coordinator or Area VP for support. Contact the MCCPTA if you don't know who your cluster coordinator or Area VP are.

I suggest you read the article. You can't expect poor, non-English speaking parents who barely have a high school education if that to walk into a PTA meeting and take on the 4-5 mothers with advanced degrees who are controlling everything by calling for a floor vote and an amendment to get interpreters. The point of the article is that the low income parents are intimidated by them and have neither the time nor debate skills to prevail.

I wasn't suggesting the people in need of the services do the advocating, I was suggesting YOU do it! You are a teacher and see a need. The PTA also includes teachers and you could follow all of the steps I mentioned to include interpreter services in the budget. Or you could work with other parents to do it.

At my child's school, I made sure there were interpreters at all meeting and Spanish translation of all PTA newsletters and flyers. You can advocate on behalf of the families at your school who need services and inclusion instead of complaining about it

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

Your argument makes sense but no fundraising organization is eager to pay the going professional rate for a service that could be donated in kind. It's certainly not fair to expect the teachers to provide this, but finding HS students seems like the best solution for everyone. Our school always found parent volunteers.

I'm talking about an MCPS interpreter, which would cost an extremely affordable rate. Certainly less than what was spent for book fair decorations that the kids didn't even notice or appreciate.

Affordability is not the issue here. Unless MCPS make clear rules on how money can be spent on interpreter services, I would not do that. If you hire interpreters for Spanish, how about other languages? How many parents are needed to get one interpreter? Or only the largest ethnic group gets one?

The school population is over 50% Hispanic. The white population is less than 10%. The entire PTA board is white and are native English speakers. The majority of the rest of the school population is comprised of African Americans (of which the majority speak English as either their native language or in addition to another language) and Asians.

We can argue all day about people being motivated or not being motivated to learn English and whether or not they "deserve" to have an interpreter at meetings. But just like students, sometimes we just have to meet parents where they are. Whether that means scheduling conferences before or after school hours to accommodate working parents (English or Spanish speaking) or providing an interpreter for Spanish speaking parents to participate in PTA meetings, it's meeting parents where they are.

What is the purpose of the PTA? To serve your own personal political agenda? Or to improve the school in ways that will ultimately help students? Can you really argue that having parents of students that comprise over half of the school population involved in the PTA is a bad thing? All because having translation available would cost an amount of money that is less than the book fair decorations budget? Interesting way to support the needs of the school you have there...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

The PTA President doesn't get to make all the decisions. Even the Board doesn't get to make all decisions. Votes should be open to members at meetings to vote on budget items. Anyone can propose an amendment on the floor for a public vote. Get more involved in your PTA and more educated on how PTA is *supposed* to work, then you can effect change. If there is an issue with the PTA board at your local school, go to your Cluster Coordinator or Area VP for support. Contact the MCCPTA if you don't know who your cluster coordinator or Area VP are.

I suggest you read the article. You can't expect poor, non-English speaking parents who barely have a high school education if that to walk into a PTA meeting and take on the 4-5 mothers with advanced degrees who are controlling everything by calling for a floor vote and an amendment to get interpreters. The point of the article is that the low income parents are intimidated by them and have neither the time nor debate skills to prevail.

I wasn't suggesting the people in need of the services do the advocating, I was suggesting YOU do it! You are a teacher and see a need. The PTA also includes teachers and you could follow all of the steps I mentioned to include interpreter services in the budget. Or you could work with other parents to do it.

At my child's school, I made sure there were interpreters at all meeting and Spanish translation of all PTA newsletters and flyers. You can advocate on behalf of the families at your school who need services and inclusion instead of complaining about it

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

I am the teacher PP and I didn't write the post you're responding to. Interesting you assume that I'm not involved.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting, OP. We're at a diverse Focus school and I could absolutely see these issues coming up. I'm planning to become more involved in the PTA and, as a white parent, will do my best to foster involvement from all parents who want to be involved. It's on us to do that, IMO.

[Anonymous]

I think posters well meaning (and some not) are missing the point.

The point of the article is that a small number of white parents come in and not only control the influencing factors on the school but also define how that happens and what it means to be a better school. The PTA in itself is the problem as there are other barriers for poor families to enter it. The PTA issue is that the white parents basically define that the PTA is the way to influence and the poor people either join into their structure or stay out.

The things that the small number of white people want to do to "improve the school" are usually things that benefit their kids and don't play into the needs of poor families. Tracking and gifted centers is a perfect example. The pressure for more seats to be in compacted math or get into the local or regional CES and open up more seats so the white kids don't get left behind with the hispanic kids is intense. White parents will push teachers to spend time with the higher reading groups and give their kids enrichment when other kids can't even read. White parents often want to see after school programs and enrichment programs at the school yet they are the only ones who can afford it. White parents want the field trips that cost over $50.

White parents act as if they are saving the school. Many of the comments are very tone deaf. Comments made to other white parents considering pulling out to private schools along the lines of "oh we can't loose you, we need everyone to stay so the school can get better" within earshot of teachers or non-white parents is harmful. Yes keeping more high scoring white kids in the school will help the rankings and possibly attract more white parents into the school but their presence alone isn't making it better , in fact, sometimes it is hurting by taking away desperately needed resources.

Look at all the posts from people saying look at the test scores by race not the school as if its perfectly fine for all the hispanic to be failing as long as the white kids are passing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

I can see both prospective but surly it’s the UMC families who are contributing more to the PTA budget than anyone in the school. Why can’t the parents bring their own interpreter or *gasp* try to learn English? Surely, the school has someone who speaks Spanish that can translate if the idea of paying for translators for parents who speak a different native language is too expensive?

Amharic speakers (those from Ethiopia and Eritrea) don’t expect translators or the language to be fully translated on documents. We either bring an adult interpreter with us to school meetings or make an effort to learn English. At some point people have to learn the world doesn’t cater to everything you desire and you have to put in an effort as well.

Public schools shouldn't be run on a fee-for-service model, and neither should public-school PTAs.

Also, even as a US-born, white, middle-class, educated person, I'm pretty clear on the concept that the world doesn't cater to everything I desire and I have to put in an effort. So I assume that people who have not had all of the advantages I've had, have an even better understanding of the idea than I do.

[Anonymous]

This doesn't just happen in low income schools. Asian parents often struggle and don't understand how to push for their needs in the W schools. Many are very active in their own communities but have a reluctance to publicly challenge authority figures in the schools. White PTA members get caught up in the book fairs and trying to make sure they don't get on the school's bad side and end up having their kid assigned to bad teachers. I've seen Asian PHD scientists sit quietly when I know that they are seething and everything explodes afterward once they are back in their communities. I've seen white PTA members ignore every substantive issue and obsess about the darn book fairs.

There are some white and asian parents that buck the stereotypes and advocate based on educational policy knowledge or work to represent others but these people are few and far between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree. I work at a high FARMS school where the PTA president refuses to spend PTA money on interpreters to attend the PTA meetings, which essentially keeps the Spanish speaking majority away from participating in the PTA. When we looked closely at the budget and expenses, we saw that the amount of money spent on book fair decorations would pay for the interpreter for the whole year but the president still wouldn't budge. They said that if a staff member would volunteer their time to interpret then they would be ok with it. Staff members ended up finding high school students needing SSL hours. The PTA serves the interests of the English speaking UMC minority, and not the majority of the school's population.

The PTA President doesn't get to make all the decisions. Even the Board doesn't get to make all decisions. Votes should be open to members at meetings to vote on budget items. Anyone can propose an amendment on the floor for a public vote. Get more involved in your PTA and more educated on how PTA is *supposed* to work, then you can effect change. If there is an issue with the PTA board at your local school, go to your Cluster Coordinator or Area VP for support. Contact the MCCPTA if you don't know who your cluster coordinator or Area VP are.

I suggest you read the article. You can't expect poor, non-English speaking parents who barely have a high school education if that to walk into a PTA meeting and take on the 4-5 mothers with advanced degrees who are controlling everything by calling for a floor vote and an amendment to get interpreters. The point of the article is that the low income parents are intimidated by them and have neither the time nor debate skills to prevail.

I wasn't suggesting the people in need of the services do the advocating, I was suggesting YOU do it! You are a teacher and see a need. The PTA also includes teachers and you could follow all of the steps I mentioned to include interpreter services in the budget. Or you could work with other parents to do it.

At my child's school, I made sure there were interpreters at all meeting and Spanish translation of all PTA newsletters and flyers. You can advocate on behalf of the families at your school who need services and inclusion instead of complaining about it

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

I am the teacher PP and I didn't write the post you're responding to. Interesting you assume that I'm not involved.

When everyone posts anonymously it's hard to tell who is posting.

If you are already involved, that's great! If you're involved but the PTA President is literally making all of the decisions like you describe (NOT the way the PTA is supposed to work) you should get your Cluster Coordinators or Area VP involved to assist. Passing a yearly budget needs to be voted on by the entire PTA membership at a public meeting. If that's not happening, your PTA board is not running things correctly and that needs to be remedied because it goes against all PTA bylaws.

I highly recommend as many people as possible go to the MCCPTA spring training which is usually held in May or June AND encourage as many other parents to do so.

There are some GREAT advocates for immigrants and lower income families on the MCCPTA - thinking specifically of Gillian Huebner, but there are others, who could help and advise at the local level to bring more equity to your school and others like it.

Not all PTAs are bad and not all PTA parents are only serving their own needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think posters well meaning (and some not) are missing the point.

The point of the article is that a small number of white parents come in and not only control the influencing factors on the school but also define how that happens and what it means to be a better school. The PTA in itself is the problem as there are other barriers for poor families to enter it. The PTA issue is that the white parents basically define that the PTA is the way to influence and the poor people either join into their structure or stay out.

The things that the small number of white people want to do to "improve the school" are usually things that benefit their kids and don't play into the needs of poor families. Tracking and gifted centers is a perfect example. The pressure for more seats to be in compacted math or get into the local or regional CES and open up more seats so the white kids don't get left behind with the hispanic kids is intense. White parents will push teachers to spend time with the higher reading groups and give their kids enrichment when other kids can't even read. White parents often want to see after school programs and enrichment programs at the school yet they are the only ones who can afford it. White parents want the field trips that cost over $50.

White parents act as if they are saving the school. Many of the comments are very tone deaf. Comments made to other white parents considering pulling out to private schools along the lines of "oh we can't loose you, we need everyone to stay so the school can get better" within earshot of teachers or non-white parents is harmful. Yes keeping more high scoring white kids in the school will help the rankings and possibly attract more white parents into the school but their presence alone isn't making it better , in fact, sometimes it is hurting by taking away desperately needed resources.

Look at all the posts from people saying look at the test scores by race not the school as if its perfectly fine for all the hispanic to be failing as long as the white kids are passing.

What I have seen, is in schools with a high (over 65%) Spanish speaking population, there is NO PTA. Why is this? Because you could have all the translators in the world and they are not going to participate. I am not trying to sound racist here. What I have seen are parents living below the poverty line and struggling to put food on the table, much less run a PTA meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think posters well meaning (and some not) are missing the point.

The point of the article is that a small number of white parents come in and not only control the influencing factors on the school but also define how that happens and what it means to be a better school. The PTA in itself is the problem as there are other barriers for poor families to enter it. The PTA issue is that the white parents basically define that the PTA is the way to influence and the poor people either join into their structure or stay out.

The things that the small number of white people want to do to "improve the school" are usually things that benefit their kids and don't play into the needs of poor families. Tracking and gifted centers is a perfect example. The pressure for more seats to be in compacted math or get into the local or regional CES and open up more seats so the white kids don't get left behind with the hispanic kids is intense. White parents will push teachers to spend time with the higher reading groups and give their kids enrichment when other kids can't even read. White parents often want to see after school programs and enrichment programs at the school yet they are the only ones who can afford it. White parents want the field trips that cost over $50.

White parents act as if they are saving the school. Many of the comments are very tone deaf. Comments made to other white parents considering pulling out to private schools along the lines of "oh we can't loose you, we need everyone to stay so the school can get better" within earshot of teachers or non-white parents is harmful. Yes keeping more high scoring white kids in the school will help the rankings and possibly attract more white parents into the school but their presence alone isn't making it better , in fact, sometimes it is hurting by taking away desperately needed resources.

Look at all the posts from people saying look at the test scores by race not the school as if its perfectly fine for all the hispanic to be failing as long as the white kids are passing.

Why are you narrowly and naively assuming that URM also don’t want tracking and gifted programs for their children? This isn’t able white people. I’m an URM, upper middle class and my children attend public school because I believe in it. DH and I want our children to be around other children of a diverse background. However, your argument that only the middle class white people care about their own in high FARMS or ESOL schools is flawed. This is purely about socioeconomics, many middle class people and upper middle class people send their children to public schools across the country because they believe in the school community. I’m not sure why articles like this paint the middle class people as uncaring. This is nothing more than clickbait that get people to fall for it EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. Furthermore, middle class people often do make positive changes in largely ESOL and FARMS schools.

What is with these clickbait articles and the people who defend them? It seems as if they want public education to be a race to the bottom. Middle class and Upper middle class parents that send their children to high FARMS and ESOL schools want the betterment for the entire community. They want to raise the expectations of the school culture and see it be successful. You and the author of this ridiculous article are being racist in your belief that the poor and URM don’t want to also see improvement in the form of enrichment. In many cases, poor parents are thankful that people with time and resources are willing to roll up their sleeves to put in the hard work that they would be unable do to. People fail to realize that the parents of some URM (FARMS, ESOL, etc) have a lot of barriers and aren’t necessarily always opposed to the help from their more affluent peers.

Articles like these always find a way to demonize white people or middle class people while making URM victims.

[Anonymous]

What I have seen, is in schools with a high (over 65%) Spanish speaking population, there is NO PTA. Why is this? Because you could have all the translators in the world and they are not going to participate. I am not trying to sound racist here. What I have seen are parents living below the poverty line and struggling to put food on the table, much less run a PTA meeting.

I agree but has anyone considered that maybe the PTA is not a good thing to have in the first place? Poor people shouldn't be forced to join it if they want to engage.

The solution is not having a PTA and finding other ways to build community and parent engagement without a PTA in low income schools. A PTA that is run by a small number of white people advocating for their needs over the majority of parents that are not involved in their PTA is not OK. The solution isn't to strong arm the poor parents into participating in the PTA but to make sure that the PTA has zero influence and there are other avenues for parental engagement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think posters well meaning (and some not) are missing the point.

The point of the article is that a small number of white parents come in and not only control the influencing factors on the school but also define how that happens and what it means to be a better school. The PTA in itself is the problem as there are other barriers for poor families to enter it. The PTA issue is that the white parents basically define that the PTA is the way to influence and the poor people either join into their structure or stay out.

The things that the small number of white people want to do to "improve the school" are usually things that benefit their kids and don't play into the needs of poor families. Tracking and gifted centers is a perfect example. The pressure for more seats to be in compacted math or get into the local or regional CES and open up more seats so the white kids don't get left behind with the hispanic kids is intense. White parents will push teachers to spend time with the higher reading groups and give their kids enrichment when other kids can't even read. White parents often want to see after school programs and enrichment programs at the school yet they are the only ones who can afford it. White parents want the field trips that cost over $50.

White parents act as if they are saving the school. Many of the comments are very tone deaf. Comments made to other white parents considering pulling out to private schools along the lines of "oh we can't loose you, we need everyone to stay so the school can get better" within earshot of teachers or non-white parents is harmful. Yes keeping more high scoring white kids in the school will help the rankings and possibly attract more white parents into the school but their presence alone isn't making it better , in fact, sometimes it is hurting by taking away desperately needed resources.

Look at all the posts from people saying look at the test scores by race not the school as if its perfectly fine for all the hispanic to be failing as long as the white kids are passing.

Huh, I see PTAs (including Focus school PTAs) who use their fundraisers to fund field trips for the whole school, and PTAs who use their leverage with enrichment providers to require need-based scholarships in all after school programs. If it's not happening in your school, make it happen through advocacy and volunteer work on your end.