CES Cold Spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cold Spring CES used to send 20+ students to TPMS which was more than any school before the magnet admission changes. Cold Spring has the highest scores in the county (including the non CES kids). Several of the feeder elementary schools also score extraordinarily high. The school and area is itself an outlier of high performers. The principal is great and the teachers are used to working with actual gifted and highly motivated students. It is a fantastic school for kids who really get into their work and have a perfectionist streak.

It would not be the greatest experience for a kid who is very smart but would rather play video games or ball outside in the afternoons. The downside of the new admission process is that the teacher recommendations used to catch which 99.9999% kid would be happy doing the work and which 99.99999% kid would not be happy doing the work.

It is strange that just as MCPS had realized the COGAT folks say it doesn't distinguish in any meaningful way at the highest percentages - it's just not designed to do that in a statistically sound manner - MCPS now is taking the 99th percentile and giving meaning to those tenths and hundreths of percentile points by ranking MCPS test takers in a way that spreads out the 99th percentile over many percentiles. I guess they made a new COGAT? Or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Cold Spring CES used to send 20+ students to TPMS which was more than any school before the magnet admission changes. Cold Spring has the highest scores in the county (including the non CES kids). Several of the feeder elementary schools also score extraordinarily high. The school and area is itself an outlier of high performers. The principal is great and the teachers are used to working with actual gifted and highly motivated students. It is a fantastic school for kids who really get into their work and have a perfectionist streak.

It would not be the greatest experience for a kid who is very smart but would rather play video games or ball outside in the afternoons. The downside of the new admission process is that the teacher recommendations used to catch which 99.9999% kid would be happy doing the work and which 99.99999% kid would not be happy doing the work.

It is strange that just as MCPS had realized the COGAT folks say it doesn't distinguish in any meaningful way at the highest percentages - it's just not designed to do that in a statistically sound manner - MCPS now is taking the 99th percentile and giving meaning to those tenths and hundreths of percentile points by ranking MCPS test takers in a way that spreads out the 99th percentile over many percentiles. I guess they made a new COGAT? Or not.

The 99.99999 is about the MAP scores. Its pretty easy to score at 99% in MAP because the % is nation wide. One kid might be 99% at 205 and another kid might be 99% at 260. The kid with 260 clearly is more advanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Cold Spring CES used to send 20+ students to TPMS which was more than any school before the magnet admission changes. Cold Spring has the highest scores in the county (including the non CES kids). Several of the feeder elementary schools also score extraordinarily high. The school and area is itself an outlier of high performers. The principal is great and the teachers are used to working with actual gifted and highly motivated students. It is a fantastic school for kids who really get into their work and have a perfectionist streak.

It would not be the greatest experience for a kid who is very smart but would rather play video games or ball outside in the afternoons. The downside of the new admission process is that the teacher recommendations used to catch which 99.9999% kid would be happy doing the work and which 99.99999% kid would not be happy doing the work.

It is strange that just as MCPS had realized the COGAT folks say it doesn't distinguish in any meaningful way at the highest percentages - it's just not designed to do that in a statistically sound manner - MCPS now is taking the 99th percentile and giving meaning to those tenths and hundreths of percentile points by ranking MCPS test takers in a way that spreads out the 99th percentile over many percentiles. I guess they made a new COGAT? Or not.

The 99.99999 is about the MAP scores. Its pretty easy to score at 99% in MAP because the % is nation wide. One kid might be 99% at 205 and another kid might be 99% at 260. The kid with 260 clearly is more advanced.

Perhaps, it is but one thing we know for certain is MCPS MAP scores are not that different than the national scores because they actually publish this.

People on DCUM like to believe that MCPS kids are lighteyars ahead but they really aen't.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that Cold Spring is an "open school" meaning that the classrooms are not divided by actual walls. We visited and the sound coming from just about everywhere (halls, upstairs, next door) was very distracting. If your child is easily distracted, this may not be the best environment for them. I believe it is one of the few schools left in the county with this physical layout.

[Anonymous]

Last year, I had some parents called me around this time after their child got accepted to Cold Spring to ask my opinion of the program since DD had been through it. Every parent seems so excited at this "honor" that their kids got selected that they feel compel to send their "gifted" child. Honestly, my child is no better off academically than other kids who were high performers who stayed at her local elementary school. If anything, I think her confidence took a little bit of a hit. She was a big fish in a small pond before, and became a small fish in a big lake. While some parents will say that teaching kids to be humble and learn from failure is important, you need to evaluate the timing of this for some kids at this stage. Some children need that extra boost of confidence at this precarious age and it would serve them better to gain this confidence in an envioronment that prepares them as they enter middle school. We find children at Cold Spring very blunt, sometimes awkwardly so. The smart bullies are actually the worst. The way the school is physically structured (open concept where you have children run amuck between the classes and a lot of noise), the freedom that they get to do what they want is not always the best environment for the kids who are disorganize and distracted. My advice to the parents who asked me last year about the program remains the same for the parents this year: If your kid is happy and learning at their local school even if it's not to the level that you want, if you are willing to enrich your kid outside of school to cover the gaps, if your kid likes their peers at their local ES, if your kid does an extracurriculum activity that is time consuming be it a travel sport or something else that takes more than 3-4 days a week, then I would stay local. If we are in Fairfax and gifted programs lasted 3rd through 8th, then I say it is worth it to go. It is only 2 years at the CES, and almost all the kids at Cold Spring will return back to their local middle school. I think another poster had said that last year only 2 kids got into the MS magnet when traditionally at least half go. We have another DS in 3rd who we opted not to even test for the CES this year. His academic profile fits well for the typical Cold Spring kid but he is in a travel soccer team, plays the piano, is in cub scout and rec swimming. There is no doubt that DD learned a lot in her two years at Cold Spring and was pushed. That said, the material that she learned wasn't rocket science (it is Elementary school content afterall!) such that we wouldn't be able to supplement either. We expect DS will not be as challenged as we hope he'd be in school, but he has lots of friends through sports and some peers who match him intellectually in class. He will be supplemented with material we find relevant. Overall, we felt he is much better served at his home school for this reason.

[Anonymous]

PP again. All that said, DD did say that if she had to choose again, she would pick the CES. She felt she learned a lot and made new friends, although unfortunately are mostly not at her home middle school.

[Anonymous]

The 99.99999 is about the MAP scores. Its pretty easy to score at 99% in MAP because the % is nation wide. One kid might be 99% at 205 and another kid might be 99% at 260. The kid with 260 clearly is more advanced.


Perhaps, it is but one thing we know for certain is MCPS MAP scores are not that different than the national scores because they actually publish this.

People on DCUM like to believe that MCPS kids are lighteyars ahead but they really aen't.

MCPS as a whole is not that different from the national norm but the highest performers are not equally spread out across the county. Cold Spring and its feeder schools have a disproportionate amount of high performers, You're basically an outlier on the low end of the spectrum there with a 98% and will be receiving intensive catch up services. I'm joking about the last part ..but not that much. It is unbelievable how many K show up reading years above grade level and having math skills equal to 3rd grade level. Many kids are bilingual with correct grammar in both languages. Kids of immigrants go to full day Saturday school in their home language. These schools teach math, language, writing and some science without diluting them so the kids who are already very smart also get a supplemental classroom education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year, I had some parents called me around this time after their child got accepted to Cold Spring to ask my opinion of the program since DD had been through it. Every parent seems so excited at this "honor" that their kids got selected that they feel compel to send their "gifted" child. Honestly, my child is no better off academically than other kids who were high performers who stayed at her local elementary school. If anything, I think her confidence took a little bit of a hit. She was a big fish in a small pond before, and became a small fish in a big lake. While some parents will say that teaching kids to be humble and learn from failure is important, you need to evaluate the timing of this for some kids at this stage. Some children need that extra boost of confidence at this precarious age and it would serve them better to gain this confidence in an envioronment that prepares them as they enter middle school. We find children at Cold Spring very blunt, sometimes awkwardly so. The smart bullies are actually the worst. The way the school is physically structured (open concept where you have children run amuck between the classes and a lot of noise), the freedom that they get to do what they want is not always the best environment for the kids who are disorganize and distracted. My advice to the parents who asked me last year about the program remains the same for the parents this year: If your kid is happy and learning at their local school even if it's not to the level that you want, if you are willing to enrich your kid outside of school to cover the gaps, if your kid likes their peers at their local ES, if your kid does an extracurriculum activity that is time consuming be it a travel sport or something else that takes more than 3-4 days a week, then I would stay local. If we are in Fairfax and gifted programs lasted 3rd through 8th, then I say it is worth it to go. It is only 2 years at the CES, and almost all the kids at Cold Spring will return back to their local middle school. I think another poster had said that last year only 2 kids got into the MS magnet when traditionally at least half go. We have another DS in 3rd who we opted not to even test for the CES this year. His academic profile fits well for the typical Cold Spring kid but he is in a travel soccer team, plays the piano, is in cub scout and rec swimming. There is no doubt that DD learned a lot in her two years at Cold Spring and was pushed. That said, the material that she learned wasn't rocket science (it is Elementary school content afterall!) such that we wouldn't be able to supplement either. We expect DS will not be as challenged as we hope he'd be in school, but he has lots of friends through sports and some peers who match him intellectually in class. He will be supplemented with material we find relevant. Overall, we felt he is much better served at his home school for this reason.

Good post.

[Anonymous]

Now that most Cold Spring CES kids return to the home middle school, I would advise parents to consider whether the academic advantages of a two-year program outweigh the social disadvantages of being pulled out of the home school social network during a pretty important period of socio-emotional development. This was the worst aspect for my kid, who found the intensely competitive at times mean social environment at Cold Spring very tough. Kids having a 50% chance of going on to a middle school magnet is very different than the current 5% or so chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The 99.99999 is about the MAP scores. Its pretty easy to score at 99% in MAP because the % is nation wide. One kid might be 99% at 205 and another kid might be 99% at 260. The kid with 260 clearly is more advanced.


Perhaps, it is but one thing we know for certain is MCPS MAP scores are not that different than the national scores because they actually publish this.

People on DCUM like to believe that MCPS kids are lighteyars ahead but they really aen't.

MCPS as a whole is not that different from the national norm but the highest performers are not equally spread out across the county. Cold Spring and its feeder schools have a disproportionate amount of high performers, You're basically an outlier on the low end of the spectrum there with a 98% and will be receiving intensive catch up services. I'm joking about the last part ..but not that much. It is unbelievable how many K show up reading years above grade level and having math skills equal to 3rd grade level. Many kids are bilingual with correct grammar in both languages. Kids of immigrants go to full day Saturday school in their home language. These schools teach math, language, writing and some science without diluting them so the kids who are already very smart also get a supplemental classroom education.

It's possible there's some truth to this but it just isn't all that special. Sure, it's likely something like 1.5 out of 100 kids in that catchment score 99%+ and other places it's closer to 1.2 out of 100. Overall, I'd suspect the kids or similar to their counterparts elsewhere in the county but simply receive more outside enrichment. There's a reason Dr. Li does drop off and pick up at this school. There's nothing wrong with that; however, don't confuse diligence with intelligence.

[Anonymous]

That area has a lot of Chinese Ph.Ds. So don't confuse the fact that they make their kids work hard and go to enrichment classes with a lack of intelligence.

[Anonymous]

It's possible there's some truth to this but it just isn't all that special. Sure, it's likely something like 1.5 out of 100 kids in that catchment score 99%+ and other places it's closer to 1.2 out of 100. Overall, I'd suspect the kids or similar to their counterparts elsewhere in the county but simply receive more outside enrichment. There's a reason Dr. Li does drop off and pick up at this school. There's nothing wrong with that; however, don't confuse diligence with intelligence.

No, the concentration of 99% kids in this catchment is much higher and out of whack compared to other ones.

MAP tests academic performance. It is not an IQ test so kids who are more advanced in their skills and knowledge will do better. They predictably do better when given more advanced work because they have demonstrated the ability to learn independently and accelerate. Diligence is also a high predictor of success at the CES programs.

IQ is not solely determined by genetics. Your IQ changes over time. Your brain is like a muscle in the sense that if you use it more frequently it will make more connections. I think that people confuse the statements that you can't prep for IQ tests with you have no control over your IQ. You can't prep for an IQ test by cramming the night before and memorizing facts. You can improve your IQ and score higher on subsequent IQ tests by using your brain more. From a genetic standpoint, the area is filled with high IQ parents mostly with advanced degrees in science, medicine and engineering as opposed to areas that have a greater mix of parental education and IQ.

Combine smart genes and hard work to exercising their brains and you get Cold Spring.

[Anonymous]

+1
Those kids are really bright to begin with and the intensive enrichment culture makes them even more competitive.

Lots of parents with advanced degrees in the BCC/Whitman area too but the parents are more secretive so there's less outward pressure to enrich. Make no mistake most parents are doing it at home but guessing the number of hours they spend is much smaller than the Cold Spring area parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The 99.99999 is about the MAP scores. Its pretty easy to score at 99% in MAP because the % is nation wide. One kid might be 99% at 205 and another kid might be 99% at 260. The kid with 260 clearly is more advanced.


Perhaps, it is but one thing we know for certain is MCPS MAP scores are not that different than the national scores because they actually publish this.

People on DCUM like to believe that MCPS kids are lighteyars ahead but they really aen't.

MCPS as a whole is not that different from the national norm but the highest performers are not equally spread out across the county. Cold Spring and its feeder schools have a disproportionate amount of high performers, You're basically an outlier on the low end of the spectrum there with a 98% and will be receiving intensive catch up services. I'm joking about the last part ..but not that much. It is unbelievable how many K show up reading years above grade level and having math skills equal to 3rd grade level. Many kids are bilingual with correct grammar in both languages. Kids of immigrants go to full day Saturday school in their home language. These schools teach math, language, writing and some science without diluting them so the kids who are already very smart also get a supplemental classroom education.

It's possible there's some truth to this but it just isn't all that special. Sure, it's likely something like 1.5 out of 100 kids in that catchment score 99%+ and other places it's closer to 1.2 out of 100. Overall, I'd suspect the kids or similar to their counterparts elsewhere in the county but simply receive more outside enrichment. There's a reason Dr. Li does drop off and pick up at this school. There's nothing wrong with that; however, don't confuse diligence with intelligence.

My child attended the Cold Spring CES and fwiw I never saw this. My child did a little Khan Academy when bored in math, but never worked that far ahead, and did not do any other outside enrichment besides reading. But she has always been intellectually curious, persistent and perfectionistic with academic work, and has two parents with multiple advanced degrees between them (including a PhD) which I'm sure are the major factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, I had some parents called me around this time after their child got accepted to Cold Spring to ask my opinion of the program since DD had been through it. Every parent seems so excited at this "honor" that their kids got selected that they feel compel to send their "gifted" child. Honestly, my child is no better off academically than other kids who were high performers who stayed at her local elementary school. If anything, I think her confidence took a little bit of a hit. She was a big fish in a small pond before, and became a small fish in a big lake. While some parents will say that teaching kids to be humble and learn from failure is important, you need to evaluate the timing of this for some kids at this stage. Some children need that extra boost of confidence at this precarious age and it would serve them better to gain this confidence in an envioronment that prepares them as they enter middle school. We find children at Cold Spring very blunt, sometimes awkwardly so. The smart bullies are actually the worst. The way the school is physically structured (open concept where you have children run amuck between the classes and a lot of noise), the freedom that they get to do what they want is not always the best environment for the kids who are disorganize and distracted. My advice to the parents who asked me last year about the program remains the same for the parents this year: If your kid is happy and learning at their local school even if it's not to the level that you want, if you are willing to enrich your kid outside of school to cover the gaps, if your kid likes their peers at their local ES, if your kid does an extracurriculum activity that is time consuming be it a travel sport or something else that takes more than 3-4 days a week, then I would stay local. If we are in Fairfax and gifted programs lasted 3rd through 8th, then I say it is worth it to go. It is only 2 years at the CES, and almost all the kids at Cold Spring will return back to their local middle school. I think another poster had said that last year only 2 kids got into the MS magnet when traditionally at least half go. We have another DS in 3rd who we opted not to even test for the CES this year. His academic profile fits well for the typical Cold Spring kid but he is in a travel soccer team, plays the piano, is in cub scout and rec swimming. There is no doubt that DD learned a lot in her two years at Cold Spring and was pushed. That said, the material that she learned wasn't rocket science (it is Elementary school content afterall!) such that we wouldn't be able to supplement either. We expect DS will not be as challenged as we hope he'd be in school, but he has lots of friends through sports and some peers who match him intellectually in class. He will be supplemented with material we find relevant. Overall, we felt he is much better served at his home school for this reason.

Good post.

+1