Do you think stimulants permanently affected your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

Citations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

Citations?

14:50 here- I posted earlier on a smaller study showing negative effects of stimulant medication on typical brains. I have never seen a study on permanent, negative effects of medication on an ADHD brain. I would be interested in a citation as well.
I do agree that it's difficult to tease out what the effects of medication might be vs. the effects of executive functioning disorders- but EF impairment is selective. Ask anyone whose child is gifted and has ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

Citations?

14:50 here- I posted earlier on a smaller study showing negative effects of stimulant medication on typical brains. I have never seen a study on permanent, negative effects of medication on an ADHD brain. I would be interested in a citation as well.
I do agree that it's difficult to tease out what the effects of medication might be vs. the effects of executive functioning disorders- but EF impairment is selective. Ask anyone whose child is gifted and has ADHD.

If you dig into the cited researcher's work, it actually suggests that the same effect of medication that can be problematic in someone without ADHD could be beneficial for someone with ADHD. One of the primary concerns raised for people without ADHD is that stimulant medications may, over time, shift the excitation-inhibition balance in the brain toward inhibition, and this resulting imbalance could reduce certain brain functions in someone without ADHD. But some research has shown a correlation between ADHD and an imbalance in the brain in favor of excitation, which means that a shift away from excitation and toward inhibition (such as that shown by ADHD stimulant medications) may actually be a positive thing for someone with ADHD, bringing their brain functioning more in balance in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Yes, if they start analyzing stimulant effect regardless of whether patients tested have ADHD (and what kind!), then the studies are worthless. It's obvious that an ADHD brain needing synaptic stimulation will react differently than a non-ADHD brain. Also, subjects taking pills on a strict routine because they have severe ADHD have a different medication regimen than people just looking for a high, or wanting to pull all-nighters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

Citations?

14:50 here- I posted earlier on a smaller study showing negative effects of stimulant medication on typical brains. I have never seen a study on permanent, negative effects of medication on an ADHD brain. I would be interested in a citation as well.
I do agree that it's difficult to tease out what the effects of medication might be vs. the effects of executive functioning disorders- but EF impairment is selective. Ask anyone whose child is gifted and has ADHD.

If you dig into the cited researcher's work, it actually suggests that the same effect of medication that can be problematic in someone without ADHD could be beneficial for someone with ADHD. One of the primary concerns raised for people without ADHD is that stimulant medications may, over time, shift the excitation-inhibition balance in the brain toward inhibition, and this resulting imbalance could reduce certain brain functions in someone without ADHD. But some research has shown a correlation between ADHD and an imbalance in the brain in favor of excitation, which means that a shift away from excitation and toward inhibition (such as that shown by ADHD stimulant medications) may actually be a positive thing for someone with ADHD, bringing their brain functioning more in balance in the long run.

14:50 here- can you provide the citations? I'm not challenging your assertion- I'm just curious to read the research. We're considering medication for our DS12 but are a bit concerned about permanent effects. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Scientist here.

The problem with these studies is that ADHD is part of what I call the "executive function spectrum disorder" (not identified as such officially, but unofficially, that's what it is).

As such, these people will struggle with planning, organization and follow-through all their lives, even if they are considered mildly affected and may not need medication. Higher-order thinking is based on planning and organizing complex thoughts. Thus it is affected.

There is no way to effectively separate the effects of the stimulants, versus the natural course of the disorder.

Both rat studies and the new human study show negative effects of ADHD medication on brain function. That's separate from the differences between NT and ADHD brain function.

The effects may only be transient, but they're not in rat studies.

Citations?

14:50 here- I posted earlier on a smaller study showing negative effects of stimulant medication on typical brains. I have never seen a study on permanent, negative effects of medication on an ADHD brain. I would be interested in a citation as well.
I do agree that it's difficult to tease out what the effects of medication might be vs. the effects of executive functioning disorders- but EF impairment is selective. Ask anyone whose child is gifted and has ADHD.

If you dig into the cited researcher's work, it actually suggests that the same effect of medication that can be problematic in someone without ADHD could be beneficial for someone with ADHD. One of the primary concerns raised for people without ADHD is that stimulant medications may, over time, shift the excitation-inhibition balance in the brain toward inhibition, and this resulting imbalance could reduce certain brain functions in someone without ADHD. But some research has shown a correlation between ADHD and an imbalance in the brain in favor of excitation, which means that a shift away from excitation and toward inhibition (such as that shown by ADHD stimulant medications) may actually be a positive thing for someone with ADHD, bringing their brain functioning more in balance in the long run.

That is the goal, the hope. I haven't seen any studies showing that it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you recently post this same question? If not, there's a relevant, recent thread.

The science says yes, stimulants do rewire the brain, especially at young ages. But the brain isn't permanent and will continue to grow for the next 5-10 years.

Rewire the brain in what way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you recently post this same question? If not, there's a relevant, recent thread.

The science says yes, stimulants do rewire the brain, especially at young ages. But the brain isn't permanent and will continue to grow for the next 5-10 years.

Rewire the brain in what way?

Read above re: excitation-inhibition

[Anonymous]

I have heard anecdotally that some people think it shot their metabolism and lead to weight problems. Makes some sense. if your appetite is low on them and you aren't eating enough calories for a long period of time, your metabolism gets messed up.

Have also heard people complain by adulthood they habituated to it and could not keep going up in dose to it became somewhat useless.

If my kid ends up needing meds, I will probably avoid stimulants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard anecdotally that some people think it shot their metabolism and lead to weight problems. Makes some sense. if your appetite is low on them and you aren't eating enough calories for a long period of time, your metabolism gets messed up.

Have also heard people complain by adulthood they habituated to it and could not keep going up in dose to it became somewhat useless.

If my kid ends up needing meds, I will probably avoid stimulants.

Well, the problem is that the other medications don’t really work very well for most people with ADHD. The non-stimulants are all basically just sedative variants so help a little bit with hyperactivity and impulsivity but don’t really help the attention piece, and have their own set of side effects. So for people who really need medication, the stimulants are generally the safest and most effective, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread just really underlined why we need more studies that use brain imaging to establish a baseline and and compare changes to a control group. Until we have those studies, this is all basically just guessing. I think a lot of that work is in progress, so we’ll probably have the answers for our grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know the science of it all so I will just speak to my ADHD-I son. We started meds one year ago at age 8. First adderall then switched to Ritalin family. On both meds we take weekends off, holiday breaks off and the summer off. Happy to report the days he’s not on meds he is the same as before we started meds. He can hyperfocus on Legos, robots and reading (3 favorite actitivies) for hours on end.

I suggest taking more med breaks if you can. You never know what could be his his evolving personality since you started meds fairly young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine is purely anecdotal - but I do think that it has negatively affected my son's growth.

He's about to be 16 and is no longer taking stimulant meds - or any meds for that matter. Having said that, he took stimulants starting at age 7 thru age 14.

He has officially reached his growth maximum already, and he is very very slim. Both DH and I are quite tall, as are our other 3 children. DS on the other hand is not, nor will he ever be. I have been beating myself up about it for months. Do I know for a fact the meds are the reason? No. But I have a strong hunch it is.

And everyone knows height is more important than mental health or ability to be a functional adult

OP asked a simple question if stimulants permanently affected your child. I answered the question. Go take your judgmental ass to the Off Topics or Politics forum where your style of smirk is welcome.

Agreed. No need for that nasty remark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard anecdotally that some people think it shot their metabolism and lead to weight problems. Makes some sense. if your appetite is low on them and you aren't eating enough calories for a long period of time, your metabolism gets messed up.

Have also heard people complain by adulthood they habituated to it and could not keep going up in dose to it became somewhat useless.

If my kid ends up needing meds, I will probably avoid stimulants.

Well, the problem is that the other medications don’t really work very well for most people with ADHD. The non-stimulants are all basically just sedative variants so help a little bit with hyperactivity and impulsivity but don’t really help the attention piece, and have their own set of side effects. So for people who really need medication, the stimulants are generally the safest and most effective, unfortunately.

Really? What I’ve read about Straterra is that some studies show it works almost as well as stimulents, but has to be taken long-term before achieving those effects. Like 9-plus months...