How do you make a super smart kid actually care about grades and school?

[Anonymous]

My DS (who will be 14 in a month) was like this up until the end of last year. He just didn't care about grades or handing in work etc... He has ADHD, Anxiety, a host of language based learning issues and executive function issues. He does speech therapy and has a tutor for math. It took a change in meds (and most likely added maturity) and he now cares about grades and is motivated to do his work (on his own instead of begging me to sit with him unless he REALLY needs it). I honestly didn't think it would ever happen, and then it did. But, like I said, we changed his meds and then added a social skills class to the mix. Not saying this is exactly what you need to do OP. This has just been my personal experience (and we are coming out the other end right now, so it's pretty fresh to me still).

[Anonymous]

This was me -- through HS. Actually, I did ok the last semester of my senior year.

What were the consequences? Well, I was rejected from every decent college I applied to. I ended up going to a meh private school that accepted me because I could pay the tuition and had good math SAT's (lousy English SATs).

I stayed there 1.5 years, transferred to a good state school (Va Tech), went on to a decent grad school, and today I am a "world renowned physicist" (that is what others say).

You need to think the long game. DC probably will not. One thing I would do is make sure there are no issues (ADD, dyslexia) that are interfering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This was me -- through HS. Actually, I did ok the last semester of my senior year.

What were the consequences? Well, I was rejected from every decent college I applied to. I ended up going to a meh private school that accepted me because I could pay the tuition and had good math SAT's (lousy English SATs).

I stayed there 1.5 years, transferred to a good state school (Va Tech), went on to a decent grad school, and today I am a "world renowned physicist" (that is what others say).

You need to think the long game. DC probably will not. One thing I would do is make sure there are no issues (ADD, dyslexia) that are interfering.

Yours is a great story. Congratulations on your success! Teacher here. Wondering what helped turn it around for you?

[Anonymous]

Agree with pp to take the long view. Therapy helped both of my boys who were very similar at that age. (Family therapy helped me too, it enabled me to back off a bit, instead of getting wrapped up in the situation and trying to control it.) Working on the mental health issues has to come first.

College visits would not have done my kids any good at that point, they just didn't have the capability to look ahead in life. We did keep my particularly high standardized test scorer in the most rigorous classes because he was going to make the same grade regardless of the level of the class. (He understood everything but wouldn't turn in his work.) It took a while for him to care -- he received academic warnings and C's as a first year high school student. He ended up with A's in post-calculus work as a senior and like the pp, he majors in physics in college.

[Anonymous]

Do you focus praise on effort and not grades or intelligence? Sometimes smart kids actually feel so much pressure that they stop trying.

Have you talked to the doctor about adjusting his meds? Is he also in therapy? Meds alone do not help him deal with his feeings.

Have you talked to him about why he does not care? Have you sat down and explained the possible repercussions of bad grades as he gets older?

If all of the above have been done, I would suggest showing him what like is like without a college education. Make him do chores daily, feed him cheap food and charge him for it, do not let him use any fancy electronics. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Have you actually tried taking away electronics before saying that won’t work?
Does he have behavior problems in school as well as academic challenges?
I agree with a PP who said this could be a complex issue. School, parents and doctors need a consistent, integrated approach. It’s difficult to give advice without knowing what strategies you have already tried, OP.

[Anonymous]

Stop discussing grades and start discussing habits. Work on doing his work, on time, completely and being prepared.

Grades then fall where they fall.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you really need to deal with the depression and medication. Grades and the future are secondary.

[Anonymous]

Can you find interesting events that might stimulate him to care? Like a robotics day or the Eurofest cultural performances or an engineering fair or hackathon or something like that? What about the descriptions of some of the application HS programs? Would opportunity motivate him?

If all else fails, what about money? You can research together what jobs pay well and what is required to get them. If you have to get into a decent school to make decent money, that could be a motivation to invest in school work.

[Anonymous]

If you have ruled out other issues and it truly is that he’s just truly apathetic, does your school offer any recourse that might make him think differently? Failing grades should make a student ineligible for sports and activities. Free periods at school replaced by mandatory study hall. A chat with an administrator about the need for summer school to make up the credits or possible retention if not. What would get through to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boy age 13. Just does not see the purpose in school and does not care that he’s failing. Completely impatient with it. Incentives don’t work. Punishment doesn’t work. He politely just refuses or doesn’t participate in school projects. Yes I know there’s a group of people here who just say take away all electronics and punish him till he complies but that just doesn’t work for this kid. Some depression going on but it’s medicated. He just doesn’t care about School but continues to do very well on standardized testing but grades are nearly failing in all subjects. Can’t imagine how this is going to play out when we move to high school next year. It’s been a full year with this attitude so it’s not just a passing phase. And seems to be getting more entrenched. Any advice?

Your DS's medication is probably helping with depression and also decreasing motivation. Combine that with hormonal quicksand of MS age, and "Bob's your uncle." I would talk first with your DS's psychiatrist about the meds and what to expect.

Keep in mind that "not caring about school" is common with MS boys- at least it is with mine, and my friends have complained too. My DS was 50/50 weight/height last year to to 32/75 this year. He has almost a completely different body and still changing rapidly. Good for you to keep extrinsic rewards and punishment out of play- there is increasing evidence that it damages intrinsic motivation long term.

Finally, no work and doing well on standardized testing indicates a lack of challenge (previously mentioned). My DS is placing top of his grade in a district math competition and just failed a math test. He's verbalized that he finds his math class to be mind numbing-- he didn't even bother reading directions for the test. Missed every question- frustrating.

+1 to this PP and all the points PP mentions.

Also, OP: You say your son just flatly refuses to do projects etc. Do you think this could turn into what I've seen called "school refusal" where a kid starts refusing to leave to go to school at all? Depression can lead to school refusal in some kids (look up DCUM threads on the, especially in the SN forum).

So he may not have the depression as under control as it seems. Does his doctor know about the specific issues? Does the doctor know about the general motivation only or have you told the doctor specifics such as the refusal to do projects? Is he leery of group work but might do even a minimal something if he could do it solo? Does he make a bit of effort in a class when he finds some particular topic or assignment interesting, but then goes back to refusing to do any work as soon as that topic or assignment is done? Is he failing all classes or only certain ones? I'd break down the school issues in detail like that to see if there's a pattern that's not yet obvious. And I'd want his doctor (does he get talk therapy or behavioral therapy or--?) to be delving into this with him.

Regular MS kid lack of motivation ideas may not apply if his depression is a larger factor in this problem than it may seem to be.

Is there an adult who is not a parent or doctor but who is a person he really respect and likes and would take seriously if that adult talks to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was me -- through HS. Actually, I did ok the last semester of my senior year.

What were the consequences? Well, I was rejected from every decent college I applied to. I ended up going to a meh private school that accepted me because I could pay the tuition and had good math SAT's (lousy English SATs).

I stayed there 1.5 years, transferred to a good state school (Va Tech), went on to a decent grad school, and today I am a "world renowned physicist" (that is what others say).

You need to think the long game. DC probably will not. One thing I would do is make sure there are no issues (ADD, dyslexia) that are interfering.

Yours is a great story. Congratulations on your success! Teacher here. Wondering what helped turn it around for you?

One teacher in HS who believed in me. And she made me to my work for my other classes. Otherwise I would not have access to her lab

[Anonymous]

Is it maturity? I know a few people, including DH, who didn’t mature until their 20s and see the value in education. They failed high school classes and started and stopped community college a few times. DH said he needed to grow up and realize he needed a degree to get a decent job. He just hated school and nothing anyone said would have made a difference back then. Same for another family member. Paying rent living on their own with low paying work did it for them. This isn’t helpful for you now with your son but at least know some turn out to be very successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy age 13. Just does not see the purpose in school and does not care that he’s failing. Completely impatient with it. Incentives don’t work. Punishment doesn’t work. He politely just refuses or doesn’t participate in school projects. Yes I know there’s a group of people here who just say take away all electronics and punish him till he complies but that just doesn’t work for this kid. Some depression going on but it’s medicated. He just doesn’t care about School but continues to do very well on standardized testing but grades are nearly failing in all subjects. Can’t imagine how this is going to play out when we move to high school next year. It’s been a full year with this attitude so it’s not just a passing phase. And seems to be getting more entrenched. Any advice?

Try going back over how you and he got to this point. You say it's been a full year. What was he like prior to this past year? Was he a conscientious student in the past, and just gave up a year ago? If it is a sudden change, do you have any idea what happened to bring on such a change? Or, has this actually been a steady decline that has taken a more steep dive the past year? If so, there may be an underlying learning disability that he can no longer compensate for as the work gets harder. How is his behavior at school? Is this solely an academic issue, or is there a behavioral component?
What role have you played, OP? When he first started to refuse to do work, what did you do, and how did you react? Kids react best to consistent parenting, particularly when they are at an age where they begin to test limits as teens are wired to do. You say that incentives and punishments don't work, but have you consistently expressed expectations, and followed through with consequences - not just the past year, but as a general parenting philosophy?
There could be many things going on here, OP, but it is hard to tell from your post. It is unusual for an otherwise typically-functioning kid to just suddenly give up. Figuring out how you got to this point could help you understand how to make things better.

[Anonymous]

I don't know exactly what is going on here but do know;
1. there is a problem
2. there is a brain here that is not meeting its potential.
3. this is an unhappy young man who needs help finding his direction.
4. Your DS has some "stinking thinking" going on as is evidenced by his behavior. This needs to stop and your son needs to be redirected RIGHT NOW. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

I have found that some extremely smart kids are great at "working" the situation to make things easy for themselves and some just like "outsmarting other people." Either way this is happening-your wonderful, smart young man needs help in developing his brain, learning to discipline his mind and gain the skills to reach his potential. Please start with the guidance counselor at his school and keep at this until you get him the help he needs. It is crucial that this be done ASAP. He is learning bad coping skills and habits right now and it will be a challenge for him to relearn right thinking and behavior. I am praying for you. I am praying for your son to get the help he needs. I am praying for both of you to be wise and strong.