AP vs. IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: Explore more at the actual school your child will attend. It REALLY matters.

Absolutely agree! I was a college admissions officer at a highly competitive college in the northeast and it became a bit obvious which schools had top notch AP students (scoring 5s on their exams) vs. those that took the courses and did not do well.

That's one of the reasons that Jay Mathews' ranking system is skewed as it does not show results -- merely attempts at the class.

I also agree with the PP about the soft vs. hard science distinction between IB and AP. The applications that I reviewed showed much stronger AP results from science majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you take all AP classes, that is the same amount of work as IB.

Ahem. Not even.

There is no AP demand for a synthesis of knowledge or an ability to demonstrate critical thinking. It's all a collection of moving parts. If you're interested in engineering, AP makes sense, but at a prestigious undergrad university (such as an Ivy or equivalent) where the science majors belong to the liberal arts college? IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Have to laugh at the inference that individual IB courses are better than individual AP courses. Good luck getting any sort of college credit/placement with an individual IB SL course. There are also plenty of so-so teachers in the system teaching IB courses to bored students who don't do all that well on the IB exams.

A completely snarky and irrelevant response. But I've had kids in both programs at different schools and some of the IB teachers blew away the AP teachers with their commitment to the course materials and IB program. That mattered more to me than the possibility that an AP course might be more likely to lead to a college credit.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the feedback. It gives me some additional questions to explore.

[Anonymous]

If IBs are much more rigorous than APs, why doesn't WIS have better exmissions? Similarly, I have a friend who, years ago, graduated from Blair's IB program. She definitely felt that the IB worked against her in college admissions. I don't think that college admissions (i.e. Ivy or not) are the end-all-be-all, but it does make me wonder what's up with this. Do a lot of US universities just not "get" the IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that college admissions (i.e. Ivy or not) are the end-all-be-all, but it does make me wonder what's up with this. Do a lot of US universities just not "get" the IB?

I think that's part of it and I also think that the timing of the IB diploma (after college applications are submitted) doesn't help, either.

[Anonymous]

This link contains policies for various schools in the U.S. regarding IB diplomas, classes, and such.

http://www.ibo.org/diploma/recognition/recognitionpolicy/index.cfm

Also, this had some useful information regarding who would likely be able to achieve in the programs:

http://www.dukegiftedletter.com/movabletype/mt-tb.cgi/253

[Anonymous]

Colleges look at whether you took the most challenging courses offered at your school and how you did in them. If your school has AP and doesn't do IB, they don't ding you for not having gone to an IB school (or vice versa).

[Anonymous]

On WIS's college admissions: most students receive a full IB program and score extremely high on the IB exams. Many receive the diploma in at least 2 languages, which is an incredible accomplishment and would be recognized as such by any university. WIS's IB test scores are far above both the American and international averages.

As for college admissions choices:

For obvious reasons, many WIS students choose to study overseas, and American parents often seem not to understand how prestigious these institutions are.

Many WIS seniors choose U.S. or international programs specifically because they honor IB credits, allowing students to skip ahead a year or more.

And many WIS students have international parents who work for the World Bank or IMF and are stationed in the U.S.; such institutions, in many cases, will fully or partially fund university costs for employees' children as long as the students attend university outside of the U.S., hence the surprisingly large number of WIS students heading to McGill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, this had some useful information regarding who would likely be able to achieve in the programs:

http://www.dukegiftedletter.com/movabletype/mt-tb.cgi/253

This link does not work.

[Anonymous]

George Mason High School has one of the most established (oldest) IB programs in the area. I thought these 2 bits from their website might be enlightening:

The IB diploma program is the most rigorous course of study offered at George Mason High School. Students who wish to undertake the full IB diploma program must complete courses in each of the groups shown above and earn a total of 24 points on three higher and three standard level examinations. (All six examinations are graded on a scale of 1 to 7 so the maximum examination total is 42 points.) Diploma candidates also take a seminar course called “Theory of Knowledge”, write an extended essay, and must complete at least 150 hours in the areas of creativity, action, and community service.

“The best thing about the IB program was that it turned me into a learner and it challenged me in ways I couldn’t even recognize at the time. It made me a strong writer and an analytical thinker which have been unbelievably helpful skills in college. I also really enjoyed being part of the IB class environment where we were sympathetic…while still challenging each other to work really hard. IB made me effective at time management as well, and it made me well-rounded by challenging me in such a wide variety of subjects."
-Mary Ryan, George Mason High School Class of 2004, University of Virginia, Class of 2008

[Anonymous]

I know I am in the minority here and not focused on "Ivy exmissions," but I wanted to point out one more thing: that the IB program can be TOO MUCH work for a student who is not completely committed. Although it was almost 20 years ago, and not on the East Coast, a lot of my friends who did IB were so burnt out after HS that they had to take a year off before college. Not the worst thing in the world, but indicative of what you could be doing to your kid's stress level.

[Anonymous]

If someone has plans to go into a science or technology field, they are far better off taking AP courses than IB courses. The IB courses -- even the HL ones -- do not match the rigor of comparable AP courses in science and technology.

So if a student is going to be a lawyer -- pick IB. If a scientist -- pick AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I am in the minority here and not focused on "Ivy exmissions," but I wanted to point out one more thing: that the IB program can be TOO MUCH work for a student who is not completely committed. Although it was almost 20 years ago, and not on the East Coast, a lot of my friends who did IB were so burnt out after HS that they had to take a year off before college. Not the worst thing in the world, but indicative of what you could be doing to your kid's stress level.

OP here...that's one serious concern I do have with it. Perhaps with AP, my daughter can pace herself a little more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I am in the minority here and not focused on "Ivy exmissions," but I wanted to point out one more thing: that the IB program can be TOO MUCH work for a student who is not completely committed. Although it was almost 20 years ago, and not on the East Coast, a lot of my friends who did IB were so burnt out after HS that they had to take a year off before college. Not the worst thing in the world, but indicative of what you could be doing to your kid's stress level.

OP here...that's one serious concern I do have with it. Perhaps with AP, my daughter can pace herself a little more.

The thing is that when they are in HS, they should function like kids in HS, not college. The Universities should be able to judge by looking at a student's scores in regular and AP HS and get an idea of what kind of student they will be in college. My point is that you should not have to do college (IB) in HS to show that you can do college later in college.

The social aspect of HS is very important. They need time to socialize and pursue sports.

With IB, you are locked in. With AP, when you've had enough, you can take a break. AP is more of a choice when you are in it.