What is the difference between VYSA's President's cup and State cup?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of a lot of top players in the area opted not to do DA/ECNL at the earlier ages (U12-U13) due to the practice commitments. In fact my neighbor's son plays on a top U12 team that could go toe to toe with any of the DA team. They opted to stay together as a team and from I've heard from the family the coach is very good. There are probably a few other teams in the area that fit that same description so I wouldn't write them off.

I know kids older than that chose to be one team down so as not to spend high school driving up and down the Eastern sea board weekends...and having to miss classes often on Fridays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know of a lot of top players in the area opted not to do DA/ECNL at the earlier ages (U12-U13) due to the practice commitments. In fact my neighbor's son plays on a top U12 team that could go toe to toe with any of the DA team. They opted to stay together as a team and from I've heard from the family the coach is very good. There are probably a few other teams in the area that fit that same description so I wouldn't write them off.

I know kids older than that chose to be one team down so as not to spend high school driving up and down the Eastern sea board weekends...and having to miss classes often on Fridays.

Yeah. My kid loves soccer, but didn't want to sit on a bus or hours in a car every weekend during HS. Honors student with a ton of activities. Missing class was a biggie at the pace and block scheduling.

[Anonymous]

Presidents cup is generally for top teams of smaller clubs, second teams of bigger size clubs, and third teams of mega size clubs like Arlington and loudon.

State cup usually has the second team of the mega clubs (first team plays ecnl/gal) and first team of big clubs (who don't have ecnl or gal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a team/player/coach you play who is in front of you, putting the team mindset that a there is only value to a W when it's prestigious is just BS.

In the end, it's an opportunity for the players to do something together as a unit and those memories will last much longer than if they were in DA or whatever level you all define as meaningful. Most of these kids will end up in the workforce with the rest of us. Parents like you all focus on the "prestigious" tag, kids just want to play and win.

I never said it wasn't meaningful. I never said it wasn't worth doing. I said it was a fun tournament. I said kids get to play against clubs they otherwise would never play. It isn't prestigious. If I said the same thing about ODP nobody would get so defensive. It can be all those things you have said and still not be prestigious. Hell, it isn't even the only State Cup tournament anymore if you want to count NP'Ls State Cup which effectively took a few top teams out of VYSA's real State Cup.

State Cup just isn't what it used to be.

I don't think this is true. With the collapse of DA and Arlington and McLean entering their top teams on the boys' side, State cup now features 7-8 of the top 10 teams in the state in every age group - at least for the boys. The only club which doesn't enter teams, and would really make a significant difference if it did, is Richmond.

[Anonymous]

How did a 30 month old thread re-emerge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

Ok, so boys are much different than girls, but three of the four teams you cited are in ECNL. So how does that support the first poster’s argument?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

Ok, so boys are much different than girls, but three of the four teams you cited are in ECNL. So how does that support the first poster’s argument?

It doesn't. My point is merely that - on the boys side at least - state cup is a prestigious competition and means quite bit. If you win - you will indeed have faced strong teams - not just in the context of VA, but in many cases teams that are amongst the best in the nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

Ok, so boys are much different than girls, but three of the four teams you cited are in ECNL. So how does that support the first poster’s argument?

It doesn't. My point is merely that - on the boys side at least - state cup is a prestigious competition and means quite bit. If you win - you will indeed have faced strong teams - not just in the context of VA, but in many cases teams that are amongst the best in the nation.

Actually I take that back - it does support the first poster's statement that "the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them". Because it turns out that the winner of the state cup, in most cases either is the top ECNL team in the state, or beat that team (or a team that had beaten that team) in the process of winning the state cup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

Ok, so boys are much different than girls, but three of the four teams you cited are in ECNL. So how does that support the first poster’s argument?

It doesn't. My point is merely that - on the boys side at least - state cup is a prestigious competition and means quite bit. If you win - you will indeed have faced strong teams - not just in the context of VA, but in many cases teams that are amongst the best in the nation.

Actually I take that back - it does support the first poster's statement that "the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them". Because it turns out that the winner of the state cup, in most cases either is the top ECNL team in the state, or beat that team (or a team that had beaten that team) in the process of winning the state cup.

The other teams in later rounds would wallop most of the ecnl non participants like they owed them money. Yeah, Arlington, the club that has been an encl member for less than a year and recruited their rosters this year based on having the DA in the past. ECNL has nothing to do with this. Dream on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

Ok, so boys are much different than girls, but three of the four teams you cited are in ECNL. So how does that support the first poster’s argument?

It doesn't. My point is merely that - on the boys side at least - state cup is a prestigious competition and means quite bit. If you win - you will indeed have faced strong teams - not just in the context of VA, but in many cases teams that are amongst the best in the nation.

Actually I take that back - it does support the first poster's statement that "the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them". Because it turns out that the winner of the state cup, in most cases either is the top ECNL team in the state, or beat that team (or a team that had beaten that team) in the process of winning the state cup.

The other teams in later rounds would wallop most of the ecnl non participants like they owed them money. Yeah, Arlington, the club that has been an encl member for less than a year and recruited their rosters this year based on having the DA in the past. ECNL has nothing to do with this. Dream on.

Huh? I think I am largely agreeing with you aren't I? My view is that the state cup is a good competition with most of the state's best teams in it. The only club that doesn't enter that would likely contend at multiple age groups is Richmond.

I don't agree that the other teams in later rounds would wallop most of the ecnl non participants though. Richmond would likely beat almost all the entrants fairly easily - as the Arlington teams did. VDA and Loudoun are strong in some age groups and would be contending to win, less so in others - but I do not think they would get walloped by many teams. Yes - BRYC would likely get walloped by several teams - but that's only one ECNL club - not most of them.

[Anonymous]

There are more than two posters and I think all of us largely agree that on the boys side the competition between Ecnl and nonEcnl is much closer than on the girls side.

[Anonymous]

State cup begins tomorrow in earnest for U12-U14. A few top teams not in it which saddens me. We are though. Looking forward to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that State Cup is not what it used to be. The B teams at ECNL/DA clubs will enter the State Cup. Also, let's be clear, the winner of the State Cup could beat all but the top ECNL teams in the state and might even beat them.

No, no they could not. Maybe occasionally on the boys side, at some ages the State Cup champ could beat the bottom dweller ECNL team. Sure.

Huh?

So far this year (20-21) the Boys' State cup winners are as follows:

2006 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL, but top of all the VA teams). This team is ranked #13 nationally.
2005 Arlington (currently 2nd in ECNL league marginally behind Richmond, where the two matches between Arlington and Richmond were draws). This team is ranked #3 nationally.
2004 Skyline (beat Arlington ECNL in the final, Arlington previously knocked out McLean who are 2nd in ECNL, and the top ranked VA team). This team is ranked #45 nationally.
2002/3 Arlington (currently 7th in ECNL and 3rd amongst VA teams). The tournament also featured Herndon (ranked #14 nationally) and Richmond Magic (#16 nationally).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it is best not to talk.

If you believe those National Rankings you don't know what you're talking about.