What happened with the separation between church and state?

[Anonymous]

Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” According to this verse, the purposes/activities of the church should be 1) teaching biblical doctrine, 2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, 3) observing the Lord’s supper, and 4) praying.

The church is to teach biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly, love one another (1 John 3:11).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/purpose-church.html

I agree churches should always strongly incorporate the teachings of Jesus into worship and Christians into their own lives, but the focus in many churches is on worship of God, prayer, etc.

Churches do good, and that’s good. That’s what Christians should do. But worshiping God and prayer is #1. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ and fellowship with others who also have such a relationship is why I attend.

[Anonymous]

Also: bible thumping I guess is a term you use to slur and attack people who have different ways of worship and different interpretations of biblical scripture than you do.

Not very classy, nor loving to attack a segment of people in this way. I wouldn’t attack those who worship in the Islamic tradition as “rag heads.” It’s gross and unacceptable. There’s tons of rude and disrespectful and unacceptable generalizations about people of all faiths and I wouldn’t use any of them to characterize a religion or a people. I hope you rethink the way you speak of your fellow man, as Jesus would probably disapprove.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pastor has every right to express his first amendment-protected beliefs. This has nothing to do with separation of church and state

To maintain their tax-exempt status, religious institutions should stay out of politics.

Except none of them do. So they should ALL lose that status.

Sounds good to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at this pastor using his church for political purposes. Can anybody tell me what language he is using to pray?

What happened to civics education? Jeez. Go back and read the First Amendment.

[Anonymous]

Separation of Church and State means that the State (Government) does not have an officially sanctioned Church (Religion) that it supports. It does not mean that Churches/Congregations, Mosques, Temples, Synagogues... cannot be active in the democratic political process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

So if a pastor and/or church speaks on politics and candidates or public officials, you think that is acceptable? As long as the government is not forcing a state religion? Not arguing just clarifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

So if a pastor and/or church speaks on politics and candidates or public officials, you think that is acceptable? As long as the government is not forcing a state religion? Not arguing just clarifying.

I think a pastor has a right to be active in the political process and voice his/her opinion, yes. People of faith have always impacted politics. We would not have had the social progress we have had without them. For example, in the past, Quakers have long been at the front of social movements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

So if a pastor and/or church speaks on politics and candidates or public officials, you think that is acceptable? As long as the government is not forcing a state religion? Not arguing just clarifying.

I think a pastor has a right to be active in the political process and voice his/her opinion, yes. People of faith have always impacted politics. We would not have had the social progress we have had without them. For example, in the past, Quakers have long been at the front of social movements.

Agreed. I just think it’s funny how entire denominations are devoted to social justice and that’s ok, but if another church/pastor supports Trump it’s suddenly political and is not allowed because it’s “politics” and churches aren’t supposed to be political. The UU magazine articles is published by UU and if that’s not “politics” then whatever.

[Anonymous]

Many of you are confusing "being involved and vocal on social and political issues" and "supporting a candidate"
Churches can do either or both. The former can lose them their tax exempt status. The latter can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

So if a pastor and/or church speaks on politics and candidates or public officials, you think that is acceptable? As long as the government is not forcing a state religion? Not arguing just clarifying.

I think a pastor has a right to be active in the political process and voice his/her opinion, yes. People of faith have always impacted politics. We would not have had the social progress we have had without them. For example, in the past, Quakers have long been at the front of social movements.

Agreed. I just think it’s funny how entire denominations are devoted to social justice and that’s ok, but if another church/pastor supports Trump it’s suddenly political and is not allowed because it’s “politics” and churches aren’t supposed to be political. The UU magazine articles is published by UU and if that’s not “politics” then whatever.

I don't see it that way. Both can be political and both get grief from it (perhaps you should look carefully to see if you have a confirmation bias). Denominations that are devoted to social justice have been attacked all throughout history. As to UUs, the 5th Principle is "The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregation and in society at large". They are called to participate.

[Anonymous]

It’s the responsibility of the state to maintain separation from the church. State decisions must be separate from institutional faith. Not the other way around. Church life and faith are inherently political.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our engagement with our role in the systems of oppression has been fitful, painful, divisive, and uncomfortable. Given our demographic base—whiter, richer, and more privileged than most Americans, as a group—it was never going to be an easy ride. We are an unfinished work. And in this we are not alone. The reality of systemic oppression is being forced into our collective national consciousness by the outspoken bravery of those on the margins.

How are people responding to this new paradigm of the prevailing national political/cultural order? Some are leading, many are following along at their own pace, and some are furiously resisting.

The furious describe themselves as rebels against an overbearing “political correctness.” The furious resistance even to talk about systemic oppression is the fire that burns at the heart of the Trump campaign. Many of his supporters rail against “political correctness” because dehumanizing language is necessary to maintain systemic oppression. But our evolution as Unitarian Universalists has been to learn that systemic oppression is itself the barrier to our high ideals.

This is not a mere difference of political opinion. The Trump campaign is not a test of our inclusiveness. People look to their religious traditions to point to what is truly important, now and in the long run. Our religious affirmations—the inherent worth and dignity of each person, of every race and gender and sexual orientation and background and religion and immigration status especially—are being tested.

Trumpism demands a new clarity from us. The only way forward for Unitarian Universalists is to dissect and dismantle the systems of oppression that have warped our country since the beginning. And the faith we need is faith that a liberated people can create a different future.“

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/there-no-going-back

UU World, the magazine of the Unitarian Universalist Association, celebrates liberal religion and the people it inspires. Meet extraordinary individuals, see how Unitarian Universalist communities put their values into action, and explore the ideas and traditions that ground them.

The quarterly print and digital magazine is published in March, June, September, and November, but the website publishes news and original online-only content every week. We also publish a weekly email newsletter and audio recordings of selected stories.

Members of Unitarian Universalist congregations in the United States receive a print subscription as a benefit of membership, thanks to the generosity of congregations to the Annual Program Fund. Others may purchase a subscription. UU World is produced by the UUA’s Periodicals Office.


Really? And this is not the mixture of politics and religion?

Religion and politics intertwined in our lives. This is not a problem. The problem arises when the government picks a specific religion and says that is the one we shall support and follow. Religious people should be active in their community and the democratic process.

So if a pastor and/or church speaks on politics and candidates or public officials, you think that is acceptable? As long as the government is not forcing a state religion? Not arguing just clarifying.

NP. YES!!! As long as the discussion relates to theology/social issues, there should be no impediment to free speech or possibility of losing tax-exempt status. As soon as a specific candidate is proposed through the church, tax-exempt status should be gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at this pastor using his church for political purposes. Can anybody tell me what language he is using to pray?

What happened to civics education? Jeez. Go back and read the First Amendment.

Didn't we hear something about some witches putting a hex on Trump? Yikes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



Agreed. I just think it’s funny how entire denominations are devoted to social justice and that’s ok, but if another church/pastor supports Trump it’s suddenly political and is not allowed because it’s “politics” and churches aren’t supposed to be political. The UU magazine articles is published by UU and if that’s not “politics” then whatever.

Traditionally, they can support a cause but not a candidate. So catholic churches can be anti-abortion, which I'm sure is fine with you, but should not be pro-trump.