Beyoncé's Family Tree and history

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

Actually, it was a representative sample. That means it was sampled in a way that accurately represents the population of interest and is generalizable to that population. I would give this approach much more weight than any anecdotal approaches (I am a health researcher and have worked with large population surveys). Here's the original paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059

Further, the average African American has somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20-25% European ancestry--a pretty high level of admixture. Here's yet another paper that bears out white paternity via DNA research:

"Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929714004765

In a country with our particular history of black slavery and disenfranchisement, it makes sense that forced relations between slave holders and slaves/freed people was commonplace, and is responsible for the majority of European admixture we see now among African Americans. The notion of unforced interracial relationships surely occurred on occasion, but the data suggest this was not what happened in most cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

Actually, it was a representative sample. That means it was sampled in a way that accurately represents the population of interest and is generalizable to that population. I would give this approach much more weight than any anecdotal approaches (I am a health researcher and have worked with large population surveys). Here's the original paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059

Further, the average African American has somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20-25% European ancestry--a pretty high level of admixture. Here's yet another paper that bears out white paternity via DNA research:

"Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929714004765

In a country with our particular history of black slavery and disenfranchisement, it makes sense that forced relations between slave holders and slaves/freed people was commonplace, and is responsible for the majority of European admixture we see now among African Americans. The notion of unforced interracial relationships surely occurred on occasion, but the data suggest this was not what happened in most cases.

This makes sense to me. Even with the marriages, if your owner wants to marry you, what choice do you really have? Or in the "consensual" relationships, if your choice is to work the fields, leading to a manual labor and health issues, or get work in the big house if you become a mistress and avoid the back breaking labor, which would you pick? Not so consensual even if it's not a violent assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

Actually, it was a representative sample. That means it was sampled in a way that accurately represents the population of interest and is generalizable to that population. I would give this approach much more weight than any anecdotal approaches (I am a health researcher and have worked with large population surveys). Here's the original paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059

Further, the average African American has somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20-25% European ancestry--a pretty high level of admixture. Here's yet another paper that bears out white paternity via DNA research:

"Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929714004765

In a country with our particular history of black slavery and disenfranchisement, it makes sense that forced relations between slave holders and slaves/freed people was commonplace, and is responsible for the majority of European admixture we see now among African Americans. The notion of unforced interracial relationships surely occurred on occasion, but the data suggest this was not what happened in most cases.

This makes sense to me. Even with the marriages, if your owner wants to marry you, what choice do you really have? Or in the "consensual" relationships, if your choice is to work the fields, leading to a manual labor and health issues, or get work in the big house if you become a mistress and avoid the back breaking labor, which would you pick? Not so consensual even if it's not a violent assault.

PP again. Agreed. For example, the "relationship" of sorts between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. She was a quadroon" (1/4 black, herself the product of a relationship betwen a 1/2 black slave mother and white slave owner) slave who accompanied his similarly aged daughter to France when he Minister to France. He apparently fathered several of her children beginning when she was still a teen.

https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

Perhaps the notion of consensual relations are more palatable--but for subjugated people, I don't think this is an accurate view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

This was not an offensive post so calm down! I’m asking if people have been able to personally trace their own family history just as extensively.

You worded your question very poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

This was not an offensive post so calm down! I’m asking if people have been able to personally trace their own family history just as extensively.

Np, op, that’s how I read your post. Not sure why pp read it differently. I was also surprised at the ability to go back so far through documentation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

This was not an offensive post so calm down! I’m asking if people have been able to personally trace their own family history just as extensively.

You worded your question very poorly.

+1. Her OP specifically asked "Are there any African American/Black people with such history?" Of course--most of us have such a history if our ancestors arrived during the antebellum period.

[Anonymous]

I am originally from Louisiana and AA. Beyonce's story is familiar to a lot us from that state. The discussion of a sexual "relationship" between owner and slave must acknowledge that this was not an equal one. You could not resist. Also, what is left out there were still these type of relationships after slavery during Jim Crow, Sharecropping etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am originally from Louisiana and AA. Beyonce's story is familiar to a lot us from that state. The discussion of a sexual "relationship" between owner and slave must acknowledge that this was not an equal one. You could not resist. Also, what is left out there were still these type of relationships after slavery during Jim Crow, Sharecropping etc.

+1. Also, sure maybe Beyonce's ancestor "fell in love" with a white man--but it's also highly possible that this was a strategic move to get herself out of slavery.

[Anonymous]

Am I the only person who finds Beyonce boring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

Actually, it was a representative sample. That means it was sampled in a way that accurately represents the population of interest and is generalizable to that population. I would give this approach much more weight than any anecdotal approaches (I am a health researcher and have worked with large population surveys). Here's the original paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059

Further, the average African American has somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20-25% European ancestry--a pretty high level of admixture. Here's yet another paper that bears out white paternity via DNA research:

"Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929714004765

In a country with our particular history of black slavery and disenfranchisement, it makes sense that forced relations between slave holders and slaves/freed people was commonplace, and is responsible for the majority of European admixture we see now among African Americans. The notion of unforced interracial relationships surely occurred on occasion, but the data suggest this was not what happened in most cases.

This makes sense to me. Even with the marriages, if your owner wants to marry you, what choice do you really have? Or in the "consensual" relationships, if your choice is to work the fields, leading to a manual labor and health issues, or get work in the big house if you become a mistress and avoid the back breaking labor, which would you pick? Not so consensual even if it's not a violent assault.

PP again. Agreed. For example, the "relationship" of sorts between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. She was a quadroon" (1/4 black, herself the product of a relationship betwen a 1/2 black slave mother and white slave owner) slave who accompanied his similarly aged daughter to France when he Minister to France. He apparently fathered several of her children beginning when she was still a teen.

https://www.monticello.org/sallyhemings/

Perhaps the notion of consensual relations are more palatable--but for subjugated people, I don't think this is an accurate view.

PP you're replying to here. Yup, people are uncomfortable with sexual assault in general, and especially systematic rape. The TJ/Sally story would be considered statutory rape if it happened today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you forreal? Of course there are likely hundreds of thousands, if not a few million, black Americans who are descendants of slave and slave owner “relationships” (I put relationships in quotes because most would have been raped or otherwise not fully able to consent to a relationship with their slave master).

I can’t tell if you’re romanticizing a marriage between a SLAVE and her OWNER. there’s nothing romantic about slavery or raping slaves.

Please do some American history.

Dare I say pot kettle.

Do your own research. The majority of AA in the us are descended from black slave men and indentured white women. This is supported by US state archival records as well as records kept in country of origin.

For example, this is just Maryland for an example:
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/07/slavery-in-maryland.html
http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/Intro_md.htm
http://genealogydecoded.com/tag/maryland-indentured-servants/
http://guide.mdsa.net/pages/viewer.aspx?page=indenturedservants

Yes, op it is often difficult to trace AA genealogy because of slavery.

This may be true in some more isolated instances or in some regions, but I don’t think this is true in general—I’ve never heard this explanation. DNA evidence suggests that many black Americans carry DNA from white slave owners and black slave women.

“Buried in DNA, the researchers found the marks of slavery’s cruelties, including further evidence that white slave owners routinely fathered children with women held as slaves.”

https://nyti.ms/1WqBAyI?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Sampling less than 4,000 people and connecting the rape is a huge leap. Yes, women were raped by white men. Most men weren’t slaves owners so there’s that. Plus of the 10 million or so slaves brought to North America, South America and the Caribbean 64.6% were MEN:
http://slavevoyages.org/voyage/search

Interesting information on slavery here: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html

Actually, it was a representative sample. That means it was sampled in a way that accurately represents the population of interest and is generalizable to that population. I would give this approach much more weight than any anecdotal approaches (I am a health researcher and have worked with large population surveys). Here's the original paper:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006059

Further, the average African American has somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20-25% European ancestry--a pretty high level of admixture. Here's yet another paper that bears out white paternity via DNA research:

"Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929714004765

In a country with our particular history of black slavery and disenfranchisement, it makes sense that forced relations between slave holders and slaves/freed people was commonplace, and is responsible for the majority of European admixture we see now among African Americans. The notion of unforced interracial relationships surely occurred on occasion, but the data suggest this was not what happened in most cases.

According to whom? Genetic data doesn't prove forced sexual relationships. By virtue of being a slave though there was no right of refusal.

[Anonymous]

How many women of any color in 1820 had a choice in these matters? Love was for romance novels and a few indulged daughters of wealthy, forward-thinking men. Systematic rape of slave women is one thing, but the inequality between older, wealthier men and younger, powerless women as a form of non-violent coercion into a more formal, recognized, publicly admitted relationship? That's how women were expected to find partners.

[Anonymous]

Why would anyone spend two pages trying to romanticize the relationship between slaveowners and female slaves? Like seriously ARGUING that the slaves could have loved their owner. You need to ask yourself why the idea of a white man raping a slave is something you reject so strongly you need to twist all such relationships into some antebellum love story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only person who finds Beyonce boring?

I'm sure many people agree with you but most people aren't opening and reading threads about people or things they find boring so don't be surprised if nobody in this thread agrees with you.