UVA in-state v. Davidson v. Washington and Lee

[Anonymous]

I am the OP.

S is the third child of 4. The two older already attend SLACs - two of which were mentioned above. They were recruited athletes, but S is not. We have been quite impressed with the small liberal arts education, but those schools are twice as much as UVA. As for aid, unfortunately, we make too much for need-based aid, but not enough where it does not hurt. And yes, part of the pitch for UVA is that we can spend some 529 money for grad school. If S goes private, all 529 money will be swallowed up by undergrad.

On balance, we believe that the quality of the undergraduate education is perhaps better at Davidson or W&L, but is it twice as good (as measured by the cost of room/board/tuition)? I have my doubts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. LACs don't have broad brand recognition to begin with but nobody is going to mention Davidson in the same breadth as Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Midd, Bowdoin, etc.

You are a hopeless East Coast snob. In other regions of the country, people haven't heard of these schools either.
(Yes, I know Pomona is a Claremont college in CA.)

[Anonymous]

I hate the south so I wouldn't go to any of the 3. But UVA costs much less so if I was poor and lived in VA, I'd make my kid go there.

[Anonymous]

What does he want to study/do with his degree OP?

Is he the kind of kid that will get lost at a bigger school or is he good at getting involved, asserting himself, pursuing opportunities?

One big advantage of the SLACs is that they don't let your kid fail or hide in the back and never interact with professors. That's helped my kid at an SLAC a lot - I think he'd get lost and be invisible at a larger school like UVA. (and he chose his SLAC over being a UVA Echols scholar and I think it's been money well-spent)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP-Could you expand on your child's experience at Davidson. I don't think that question is too far afield from the OP's.

We were very impressed with the campus & town (which surprised us, since we had not originally been considering any southern schools). How heavy is the drinking scene? How intense are the academics? I have heard there is considerable grade deflation, which can hamper kids who are applying to grad school. Thanks.

I'm the PP. My DS loves Davidson. I don't think the drinking scene is that wild, but it does exist. The academics are intense, but not overly so. I think Davidson students do quite well in applying to grad schools.

You may want to check out https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2017/08/02/2017-grateful-grads-index-top-200-best-loved-colleges/#40adad21128e. Davidson students tend to love Davidson.

Anonymous wrote:If you ignore the issue that Davidson/W&L will cost you more than twice what UVA will cost you, there is a legitimate question here .... whether a top 25 flagship state university is a better choice than a top 10 LAC.

Many kids face that choice -- and it comes down to specifics like size of school, location, strength of major, campus activities, post-grad plans, campus vibe etc.

I agree with this. UVA is not a no-brainer unless money is the main consideration. BTW, you may be pleasantly surprised with the aid package from Davidson. We were.

+1

Davidson is known to have a top notch financial aid department. If you don't receive any financial aid from Davidson, chances are that you very much do not need financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your DC is being recruited for sports at one of the small schools and it’s worth it to you to pay a $35k premium for that, or there are family ties to one (my neighbors were crazy loyal to W&L), then I don’t see how this is even a discussion. I’m not a UVA booster, and cost of college wasn’t a factor for us, but I wouldn’t have been able to justify that much money when UVA was an option.

My DS is at UVA and we paid $26K this year total for room and board, instate. Most SLACs today are $72K not including airfare so you are really talking about a $45K difference which is in after tax dollars, which means you have to go make $75K or more each year to pay for Davidson (which I've never heard of and yes we toured W & L).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Davidson's latest NATIONAL rankiing is #10 for LAC, and #7 for Best undergraduate teaching .

I think DCUM posters need to stay current .

Davidson has been ranked somewhere near #10 for LACs since the mid-'90s (some years it has been ranked a bit lower, sone years a bit higher but I'm pretty sure it has always been within a few spots of its current ranking). Most people who work in the kind of fields where such things matter know that it a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does he want to study/do with his degree OP?

Is he the kind of kid that will get lost at a bigger school or is he good at getting involved, asserting himself, pursuing opportunities?

One big advantage of the SLACs is that they don't let your kid fail or hide in the back and never interact with professors. That's helped my kid at an SLAC a lot - I think he'd get lost and be invisible at a larger school like UVA. (and he chose his SLAC over being a UVA Echols scholar and I think it's been money well-spent)

He is thinking pre-med. I am less worried about him at the larger school compared to his older siblings, but I agree with you whole-heartedly on the closer student-faculty interaction at SLACs. He will get involved - or so we think. If the costs were comparable it'd be an easier decision to chose the private alternative, but with a six figure difference in the total four year cost, we are obviously torn.

[Anonymous]

Davidson is a premier LAC experience- without question one of the strongest you can get. The amount of resources they give to each individual student and the individual attention is far larger than UVA. Is that worth 2x more? That's a subjective question. Our child did turn down in-state UVA for another top 5 SLAC and has no regrets (turned down some other well known schools too like Brown and Rice).

[Anonymous]

Davidson and W&L are fine LACs. W&L has an insanely loyal alumni and strong alum networks. Davidson perhaps not so much.

Davidson and W&L and UVA have no prestige advantages over each other. All are the same. People really overthink prestige. They are all great colleges of some standing and are known and beyond that it really doesn't matter whether you went to one over another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your alternatives to UVA are Davidson and W&L, why didn't you apply to W&M? It seems like the closest public substitute. Your choice should potentially be made on the desirability of a LAC relative to costs.

Good point. In many ways, W&M is like a liberal arts college. I couldn’t justify turning it down over W&L. Davidson, though, would be a closer call. But as for the choice at hand, it would be UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Davidson and W&L are fine LACs. W&L has an insanely loyal alumni and strong alum networks. Davidson perhaps not so much.

Davidson and W&L and UVA have no prestige advantages over each other. All are the same. People really overthink prestige. They are all great colleges of some standing and are known and beyond that it really doesn't matter whether you went to one over another.

Very few human beings have heard of Davidson and W&L. Very many people have heard of UVA. And UVA is on the cusp of a national NCAA men’s basketball championship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he want to study/do with his degree OP?

Is he the kind of kid that will get lost at a bigger school or is he good at getting involved, asserting himself, pursuing opportunities?

One big advantage of the SLACs is that they don't let your kid fail or hide in the back and never interact with professors. That's helped my kid at an SLAC a lot - I think he'd get lost and be invisible at a larger school like UVA. (and he chose his SLAC over being a UVA Echols scholar and I think it's been money well-spent)

He is thinking pre-med. I am less worried about him at the larger school compared to his older siblings, but I agree with you whole-heartedly on the closer student-faculty interaction at SLACs. He will get involved - or so we think. If the costs were comparable it'd be an easier decision to chose the private alternative, but with a six figure difference in the total four year cost, we are obviously torn.

Then I’d absolutely choose UVA. My brother went to Davidson and I never got the impression there is much of a science focus. Go to a university with large research facilities and labs. Also save your money for grad school! It would be one thing if your child was accepted to Harvard. But Davidson? Not worth the premium. Fwiw I’ve also been unimpressed with what Davidson grads have done. While many went to grad school I got the impression it was because they had to. A number of his friends were artists, BS jobs, in non profit, etc. which is fine but not if you’re upper middle class and just paid $280k for your child to attend school and not even end up in a professional career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Davidson and W&L are fine LACs. W&L has an insanely loyal alumni and strong alum networks. Davidson perhaps not so much.

Davidson and W&L and UVA have no prestige advantages over each other. All are the same. People really overthink prestige. They are all great colleges of some standing and are known and beyond that it really doesn't matter whether you went to one over another.

Very few human beings have heard of Davidson and W&L. Very many people have heard of UVA. And UVA is on the cusp of a national NCAA men’s basketball championship.

Few people have heard of Yale either. That is irrelevant. Someone once said to me that there are only two types of colleges in America, Harvard and everyone else, and there's truth to it.

Davidson and W&L are both great colleges. UVA is a great college too. Picking between the three should be done either for financial reasons or soft factors like campus atmosphere, not prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Davidson and W&L are fine LACs. W&L has an insanely loyal alumni and strong alum networks. Davidson perhaps not so much.

Davidson and W&L and UVA have no prestige advantages over each other. All are the same. People really overthink prestige. They are all great colleges of some standing and are known and beyond that it really doesn't matter whether you went to one over another.

Very few human beings have heard of Davidson and W&L. Very many people have heard of UVA. And UVA is on the cusp of a national NCAA men’s basketball championship.

Few people have heard of Yale either. That is irrelevant. Someone once said to me that there are only two types of colleges in America, Harvard and everyone else, and there's truth to it.

Davidson and W&L are both great colleges. UVA is a great college too. Picking between the three should be done either for financial reasons or soft factors like campus atmosphere, not prestige.

No. Very many people have heard of Yale. If you turn down UVA for Davidson or W&L, many—if not most—fellow students there will wonder why. Don’t make this mistake.