Why do parents get so worked up about prepping their kid to get into AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone else is disadvantaged if some prep and others do the tests as intended (not prepped).

How is anyone disadvantaged. There is not a limited number of seats in AAP.

Also, how is it different from prepping for the SAT/ACT.

I think they're disadvantaged because they set the pool around top 10% of test scores, I believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't they just use SOL scores?

Most of kids start AAP in 3rd grade with testing in first and 2nd grade. SOLs don't start until end of year for 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody would have something to gain if FCPS has a system where no one can prep into AAP so that you can preserve the quality of the program and accept only those kids who really need the services as originally designed. This prepping issue will never go away unless FCPS addresses this. Obviously looking at everything else besides test scores such as GBRS work examples is helping to solve the problem.

Maybe FCPS needs to develop a test that they keep completely under wraps, like MCPS. It would be much harder to prep if people didn't know what kinds of questions to expect. I disagree with your last point. Emphasizing GBRS just leads to a lot of affluent, overly-hothoused, high achievers with scores around 120 getting into AAP.

Math seems to be the area that is really shortchanged with the current AAP model. So many people on dcum complain that the AAP math is really fast, but for a child who is actually gifted in math, it's agonizingly slow. It would help to have a math curriculum designed for kids who are gifted, rather than one designed for the run of the mill, bright, slightly advanced kids in AAP.

Typo: In my last sentence...is NOT helping to solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone else is disadvantaged if some prep and others do the tests as intended (not prepped).

How is anyone disadvantaged. There is not a limited number of seats in AAP.

Also, how is it different from prepping for the SAT/ACT.

PP again to answer the second question. I think they're too young to be spending time prepping at this age and also I think COGAT and NNAT are designing to be non prepped tests.

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t matter what you think. There’s no law against prepping.

My oldest scored perfect on the NNAT. I didn’t even know what it was. School accused me of prepping. I was unaware that you could - she was my oldest. She also scored perfect/nearly perfect on the SOLs.

I made sure to prep my younger ones once I knew about prepping. AAP has been wonderful for all of them.

[Anonymous]

We've found AAP to be increasingly watered down in recent years. Once enough not-truly-gifted kids game their way into the program, everything has to slow down for them, and they can't quite handle the depth and complexity that actual gifted kids can at that point. Is it a great tragedy? No. It's more of a farce.

However, until the school system improves the quality of gen ed, people will understandably scramble to get their kids into the best tier of the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t matter what you think. There’s no law against prepping.

My oldest scored perfect on the NNAT. I didn’t even know what it was. School accused me of prepping. I was unaware that you could - she was my oldest. She also scored perfect/nearly perfect on the SOLs.

I made sure to prep my younger ones once I knew about prepping. AAP has been wonderful for all of them.

That's interesting! How did the school accuse you of prepping and what did they/you do about it? I see in some other threads on this forum that the teachers ask the kids if they prepped. I think that's rather sneaky (and unethical) that teachers would use the vulnerability and innocence of kids to glean such information rather than asking adults. It is also an unreliable way make any judgments or decisions on prepping, based on information gathered by putting second graders on the spot.

As a PP pointed out, if it is about Advanced ACADEMICS, give a test on academics (advanced math/language arts etc.) and go from there. It is unconvincing that scores on NNAT and CogAT correlate to high performance in academics in later years.

[Anonymous]

I asked what the NNAT was because I wasn’t aware of it. Then I told them I was appalled and asked if they thought my daughter (she’s multicultural) must have cheated because of her name, skin, hair?

I’m as white as paper and my kids are not. I’ve continually dealt with stupid teachers assuming my kids aren’t as smart, or they must be cheating. My daughter, now in HS, had 4.2 gpa last year. She fought for every point - she really deserved better scores but prejudice is innate in subjective grading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

-Kids who legitimately earn a 96th or 97th percentile score now look much worse in comparison to their peers who would have earned lower scores but prepped their way into higher scores. So, they are more likely to be rejected, even though they technically are smarter and better candidates than the preppers who got in.

-If disproportionately many 90-98th percentile kids prep their way to higher scores and get in, then the few 90-98th percentile kids who don't get in end up becoming outliers and having little peer group in gen ed.

I have never posted against prepping but I'll join the bandwagon. These are the reasons in my personal experience. I didn't prep because we were told not to. My kids scored between 94-97 in all tests, above grade level in reading, receiving above grade level in math, etc. Not accepted.

I didn't appeal because it was explained to me that AAP is for "truly gifted" kids in the 98th percentile. That seems fair until you find out that tons of people prep and plenty get in with lower much lower scores than mine. My kids no longer get above grade level instruction and I truly feel that they are no longer with their academic peers because all the other bright but not profoundly gifted kids are in AAP.

I honestly don't care whether my kids re in AAP or Gen Ed but I do want them with their peers and being taught at their level. The problem here is with the system!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

-Kids who legitimately earn a 96th or 97th percentile score now look much worse in comparison to their peers who would have earned lower scores but prepped their way into higher scores. So, they are more likely to be rejected, even though they technically are smarter and better candidates than the preppers who got in.

-If disproportionately many 90-98th percentile kids prep their way to higher scores and get in, then the few 90-98th percentile kids who don't get in end up becoming outliers and having little peer group in gen ed.

I have never posted against prepping but I'll join the bandwagon. These are the reasons in my personal experience. I didn't prep because we were told not to. My kids scored between 94-97 in all tests, above grade level in reading, receiving above grade level in math, etc. Not accepted.

I didn't appeal because it was explained to me that AAP is for "truly gifted" kids in the 98th percentile. That seems fair until you find out that tons of people prep and plenty get in with lower much lower scores than mine. My kids no longer get above grade level instruction and I truly feel that they are no longer with their academic peers because all the other bright but not profoundly gifted kids are in AAP.

I honestly don't care whether my kids re in AAP or Gen Ed but I do want them with their peers and being taught at their level. The problem here is with the system!

This (bold) has nothing to with the prep, their parents tried (referral/appeal) and child got in where as you chose not to appeal! You can not judge other child simply based on some scores. A child with low score is not automatically in the pool,i.e. they are parent referred. They must have submitted solid samples that puts them above your child portfolio. They must have had high GBRS.

What was GBRS for your child? Was it low? Cogat score alone is not sufficient to guarantee admission in the program.

Prepping will not change score from 100 to 145. If child is near cut-off and prepping helps pass them that threshold, it should not dis-qualify that child! That child is already smart just needed some guidance. GBRS plays important role and it can not be cheated. Admission committee (6-7 people) wants to see whole package.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that complaining will not stop people from prepping, and at this point, if you think your kid belongs in AAP, you might as well seize every advantage that you can.

But, having so many kids prep their way into AAP can at least somewhat hurt the kids who don't prep as well as the school system as a whole. Here are a few ways:

-Kids who legitimately earn a 96th or 97th percentile score now look much worse in comparison to their peers who would have earned lower scores but prepped their way into higher scores. So, they are more likely to be rejected, even though they technically are smarter and better candidates than the preppers who got in.

-If disproportionately many 90-98th percentile kids prep their way to higher scores and get in, then the few 90-98th percentile kids who don't get in end up becoming outliers and having little peer group in gen ed.

-The truly gifted kids end up with an overly inclusive program that has been watered down by such a glut of non gifted kids. So, AAP no longer serves the population it was designed to serve.

At this point, though, it's a systematic problem. If FCPS has a problem with the prepping, then it's something they and the AAP committee will need to solve. It's ludicrous to expect that parents won't try to do whatever they can to get their children into better academic programs. If they do nothing at all to solve the prepping, then parents should take that as tacit permission to prep.

Do you have any statistics to support your claim, i.e., where prepping has helped improved scores drastically?What percentage of students in AAP gets in because on prepping?
As far as I know, there are no fix number of seats so anyone can get in as long as they meet the cut-off set by FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

-Kids who legitimately earn a 96th or 97th percentile score now look much worse in comparison to their peers who would have earned lower scores but prepped their way into higher scores. So, they are more likely to be rejected, even though they technically are smarter and better candidates than the preppers who got in.

-If disproportionately many 90-98th percentile kids prep their way to higher scores and get in, then the few 90-98th percentile kids who don't get in end up becoming outliers and having little peer group in gen ed.

I have never posted against prepping but I'll join the bandwagon. These are the reasons in my personal experience. I didn't prep because we were told not to. My kids scored between 94-97 in all tests, above grade level in reading, receiving above grade level in math, etc. Not accepted.

I didn't appeal because it was explained to me that AAP is for "truly gifted" kids in the 98th percentile. That seems fair until you find out that tons of people prep and plenty get in with lower much lower scores than mine. My kids no longer get above grade level instruction and I truly feel that they are no longer with their academic peers because all the other bright but not profoundly gifted kids are in AAP.

I honestly don't care whether my kids re in AAP or Gen Ed but I do want them with their peers and being taught at their level. The problem here is with the system!

This (bold) has nothing to with the prep, their parents tried (referral/appeal) and child got in where as you chose not to appeal! You can not judge other child simply based on some scores. A child with low score is not automatically in the pool,i.e. they are parent referred. They must have submitted solid samples that puts them above your child portfolio. They must have had high GBRS.

What was GBRS for your child? Was it low? Cogat score alone is not sufficient to guarantee admission in the program.

Prepping will not change score from 100 to 145. If child is near cut-off and prepping helps pass them that threshold, it should not dis-qualify that child! That child is already smart just needed some guidance. GBRS plays important role and it can not be cheated. Admission committee (6-7 people) wants to see whole package.

You are right that I chose not to appeal, and I regret that, but it was largely because I believed what I was reading on the FCPS sites and I what I was hearing in the big general meeting. And the characterization of AAP as a place for highly gifted kids, quite simply, not true. I do not think my kids are highly gifted... they are above average bright like almost everyone in FCPS AAP.

I don't know what my kids' GBRS was. i didn't ask. I do know that it is subjective, though.

I don't think anyone has claimed that prepping will get a kid from 100 to 145. It suspect it can get a kid from 128 to 133 though. Had I known how wide-spread prepping was, had I known how many much being in pool matters, had I known how many people appeal for the just under the pool scores... yes, I would have done things differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any statistics to support your claim, i.e., where prepping has helped improved scores drastically?What percentage of students in AAP gets in because on prepping?
As far as I know, there are no fix number of seats so anyone can get in as long as they meet the cut-off set by FCPS.

FCPS doesn't release any stats, so we just have logic, reasoning, and anecdata. The existence of so many prep schools, prep materials online, and prep books on amazon would suggest that a lot of people are prepping. Unless you believe that the CogAT is the one magical test for which prepping doesn't work, you would have to accept that prepping will improve scores somewhat. Since the ceilings on the CogAT and NNAT are so low, a swing in just a few questions can be the difference between a mid 120s score and a mid 130s one. At my kids' school, Level IV was presented as being for the top 2%, while Level III was for the rest of the kids in the top 10%. Yet, 26 kids were accepted into Level IV, and there were only 5 Level IIIs left. The math just doesn't add up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are right that I chose not to appeal, and I regret that, but it was largely because I believed what I was reading on the FCPS sites and I what I was hearing in the big general meeting. And the characterization of AAP as a place for highly gifted kids, quite simply, not true. I do not think my kids are highly gifted... they are above average bright like almost everyone in FCPS AAP.

I don't know what my kids' GBRS was. i didn't ask. I do know that it is subjective, though.

I don't think anyone has claimed that prepping will get a kid from 100 to 145. It suspect it can get a kid from 128 to 133 though. Had I known how wide-spread prepping was, had I known how many much being in pool matters, had I known how many people appeal for the just under the pool scores... yes, I would have done things differently.

I'm right there with you! I didn't even apply for my child in 2nd, since the scores were 97th percentile, and I hadn't received any indication from the teacher that I should have applied. I believed that Level IV was for the outliers who couldn't be taught in the regular classroom, so I didn't want to put my child in an environment where she would struggle. Imagine my surprise when a bunch of kids with lower scores who weren't even in the top math group or top reading groups with my child were all found "too gifted to be taught in the regular classroom." My child went from being middle of the pack in the high groups to being the top kid remaining. 3rd grade ended up being a step down from 2nd in terms of rigor, since all of the smart kids went to the center. I found out after the fact that my child's GBRS from K - 2nd had been consistently high (14+).

Fortunately, you can always apply in 3rd grade for admission in 4th. As long as your school provides advanced math, your child will be fine with the extra year in gen ed.

I think FCPS should make it clear to parents that all kids who are doing well in school and above grade level with at least 120s on the tests should apply for AAP. They should also make it clear that it's not just for gifted kids with needs that can't be met in a gen ed classroom, but rather it's a program for any bright, high achieving students who are capable of keeping up with the work. Right now, the info put out by FCPS doesn't match the reality of who gets in and "belongs" in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are right that I chose not to appeal, and I regret that, but it was largely because I believed what I was reading on the FCPS sites and I what I was hearing in the big general meeting. And the characterization of AAP as a place for highly gifted kids, quite simply, not true. I do not think my kids are highly gifted... they are above average bright like almost everyone in FCPS AAP.

I don't know what my kids' GBRS was. i didn't ask. I do know that it is subjective, though.

I don't think anyone has claimed that prepping will get a kid from 100 to 145. It suspect it can get a kid from 128 to 133 though. Had I known how wide-spread prepping was, had I known how many much being in pool matters, had I known how many people appeal for the just under the pool scores... yes, I would have done things differently.

I'm right there with you! I didn't even apply for my child in 2nd, since the scores were 97th percentile, and I hadn't received any indication from the teacher that I should have applied. I believed that Level IV was for the outliers who couldn't be taught in the regular classroom, so I didn't want to put my child in an environment where she would struggle. Imagine my surprise when a bunch of kids with lower scores who weren't even in the top math group or top reading groups with my child were all found "too gifted to be taught in the regular classroom." My child went from being middle of the pack in the high groups to being the top kid remaining. 3rd grade ended up being a step down from 2nd in terms of rigor, since all of the smart kids went to the center. I found out after the fact that my child's GBRS from K - 2nd had been consistently high (14+).

Fortunately, you can always apply in 3rd grade for admission in 4th. As long as your school provides advanced math, your child will be fine with the extra year in gen ed.

I think FCPS should make it clear to parents that all kids who are doing well in school and above grade level with at least 120s on the tests should apply for AAP. They should also make it clear that it's not just for gifted kids with needs that can't be met in a gen ed classroom, but rather it's a program for any bright, high achieving students who are capable of keeping up with the work. Right now, the info put out by FCPS doesn't match the reality of who gets in and "belongs" in AAP.

ITA. Either make AAP for the true outliers or stop pretending it is something that it isn't.