youth soccer participation down 23.5% in key 6-12 year age group...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer America Today article.

Pay-to-play (lack of free play opportunities), decline of in-town youth sports leagues (like traditional little league), low participation from low income families, and not enough trained coaches (soccer finished last in 4 of 6 training categories and no higher than 7th in any) cited. Smart phones and tablets also cited.

But while baseball participation dropped 5 percent and basketball 8 percent...soccer's 23.5% drop was striking!

Soccer American Today seems to be coming from the perspective that this is a bad thing.

What about positive reasons? Families realizing they were over scheduled. Kids discovering other sports?

I would agree with you if the drop-off in soccer were comparable to the drop-off in other sports, but the drop for soccer was four to five times as much as the other sports cited. That means there's a problem in youth soccer that doesn't exist in other youth sports.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know the numbers for football? Most parents I know won’t allow football because of the concussion risk, and a couple of them have vetoed soccer once the kids are old enough for headers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer America Today article.

Pay-to-play (lack of free play opportunities), decline of in-town youth sports leagues (like traditional little league), low participation from low income families, and not enough trained coaches (soccer finished last in 4 of 6 training categories and no higher than 7th in any) cited. Smart phones and tablets also cited.

But while baseball participation dropped 5 percent and basketball 8 percent...soccer's 23.5% drop was striking!

Soccer American Today seems to be coming from the perspective that this is a bad thing.

What about positive reasons? Families realizing they were over scheduled. Kids discovering other sports?

I would agree with you if the drop-off in soccer were comparable to the drop-off in other sports, but the drop for soccer was four to five times as much as the other sports cited. That means there's a problem in youth soccer that doesn't exist in other youth sports.

Agree. 6-12 yrs old are prime youth participation time as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My son (9 yo/3rd grade) decided to quit soccer after this fall. He didn't want the competitive pressure of a travel program (which I agree on, I think these programs are incredibly developmentally inappropriate at this age), but since the program has pulled off so much of the talent on his rec team, he's not having fun being the only kid out there working. I'm sad that he's giving up something he used to love, but I really can't blame him given what I've seen out on the field.

I find this odd. Maybe it is your particular rec league, but there is still a fair mix of kids putting in different levels of effort on my son's U10 rec team. Sure, many talented kids went to travel, but there are decent kids in rec because they play other sports, are in band etc., but are still "out there working" during rec soccer games.

PW county tends to put out the most competitive rec teams, based on the All-Star results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what's your answer to fixing rec soccer?

Pay to train parent volunteers? It might help a little, but it still won't make up for never having played the sport. And you're still not going to attract the more serious players who will flock to paid coaching available through travel programs.

Pay professional coaches to run it, but keep the level of commitment low? I don't know...if I were a paid coach and good at what I did, I'd rather work for a travel club than a rec program. Again, doesn't address the exodus of players to travel and it would make the cost of rec go up.

I think it would be tough to 'undo' the availability of travel soccer for 2nd graders...that train left the station.

In Northern Virginia, there are lower key travel programs that allow kids to play other sports or pursue other interests. It's not like the DA is the only game in town.

Lots of complaining, but no solutions.

It's a time issue, just wait to see a lot of the kids in travel and in the 90's join the volunteer group. Plenty of coaches in their twenties on the travel side, that's because they're trying to make $ while doing what they like. Once they have children of their own, they will be part of the rec teams. Nothing we can do about parents who played baseball and football growing up, and are just phoning it in at their U5-U10 rec teams before their DC are old enough to be in basketball, baseball, or football, or gymnastics/dance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (9 yo/3rd grade) decided to quit soccer after this fall. He didn't want the competitive pressure of a travel program (which I agree on, I think these programs are incredibly developmentally inappropriate at this age), but since the program has pulled off so much of the talent on his rec team, he's not having fun being the only kid out there working. I'm sad that he's giving up something he used to love, but I really can't blame him given what I've seen out on the field.

I tend to agree that lack of skilled coaching may be a part of it as well. My son's team has had a series of parent coaches who never coach more than a single season and who don't have much (if any) of a soccer background, so they basically just herd cats rather than actually teaching soccer skills (that's not a knock on them, I appreciate them stepping up so we could have a team at all). For those kids on the team who got outside coaching (either from a private coach or from a parent who knows the game), they were able to play at a higher level despite the lack of coach instruction at their practices, but for kids more in the middle who have potential but need to be taught the skills, they just haven't progressed much since the beginning.

Not to pile on a 9 year old but something seems odd regarding the logic that you are using. He doesn't want the competitive pressure of travel but bemoans being the "only kid working" at the rec level. What is killing youth soccer is people constantly looking for these "Goldilocks"

Not the pp....but WTF are you talking about???

Our County destroyed the Rec soccer program by making everything pay-to-play. They were taking just about every kid that showed up at travel tryouts---with their 6 teams. Then--for the few that didn't make it--they ushered them into the Development program which was another 'tryout/paid program". The indoor Rec soccer program used to be a blast--but now since most 2nd/3rd graders are travel--you don't have these neighborhood teams anymore. Then---they had to make it so Developmental kid #s were unlimited. So now you have whole teams of developmental players with professional training going up against Rec players that are at much lower level. It's a disaster.

When my firstborn started the Rec program was boisterous and without the Developmental program there was still a high number of talented kids in the Rec program. Kids really forged school/neighborhood bonds and there were many talented parents filling into coach.

I am so glad my kids started prior to the birth year change which had FIRST graders trying out for travel. That is shameful. The amount of burnout I've seen by 10 is massive. It is way too formalized at such a young age. These Clubs also don't make it 'fun' age-appropriate.

13:24/15:24 here, it sounds like we are/were in the same league, but unfortunately we're getting the brunt of the developmental disaster. At least I hope were are and there aren't multiple soccer leagues in the region that are this messed up.

If you want others to have the same commitment, then you need to step up. Be the one that volunteers for the van pool in rec. Also, it's telling to see that you would want others to have commitment in rec soccer, but the minute something fancies your kid and you decide to miss practice or a game, you want it to be ok with the coach. Basically, if you show up, you want everybody else to show up; if you don't show up, you don't want anybody complaining that you didn't show up...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what's your answer to fixing rec soccer?

Pay to train parent volunteers? It might help a little, but it still won't make up for never having played the sport. And you're still not going to attract the more serious players who will flock to paid coaching available through travel programs.

Pay professional coaches to run it, but keep the level of commitment low? I don't know...if I were a paid coach and good at what I did, I'd rather work for a travel club than a rec program. Again, doesn't address the exodus of players to travel and it would make the cost of rec go up.

I think it would be tough to 'undo' the availability of travel soccer for 2nd graders...that train left the station.

In Northern Virginia, there are lower key travel programs that allow kids to play other sports or pursue other interests. It's not like the DA is the only game in town.

Lots of complaining, but no solutions.

It's a time issue, just wait to see a lot of the kids in travel and in the 90's join the volunteer group. Plenty of coaches in their twenties on the travel side, that's because they're trying to make $ while doing what they like. Once they have children of their own, they will be part of the rec teams. Nothing we can do about parents who played baseball and football growing up, and are just phoning it in at their U5-U10 rec teams before their DC are old enough to be in basketball, baseball, or football, or gymnastics/dance.

We are in our 40s and both played D-1 soccer. My husband and I both coached rec until the kids started travel in 3rd grade. With our careers, there’s no way in hell we could coach travel (or want to).

There are many of us around that grew up in the travel clubs around here. We tend to be the cynical ones only because we’ve seen it all before and knew a lot of the people now running the Clubs and leagues back when we all were playing.

[Anonymous]

Travel and rec soccer are not the same thing. They are not even the same game. Rec soccer makes it’s money with the younger kids- no refs, no paid coaches, etc. Little supervision of the coaching and no fundamentals. By 2nd to 3rd grade most kids leave rec.

I don’t blame them either. I have seen many kids who showed some promise and interest in the game get stuck at fullback/defense because the coach’s kid play forward or practices where the one kid who has some dribbling skills is tackled and thrown to the ground repeatedly(at 7 years old) because that’s good defense. Till the kid gets hurts and never goes back out.

The rec system is just as big a problem as the pay for play system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (9 yo/3rd grade) decided to quit soccer after this fall. He didn't want the competitive pressure of a travel program (which I agree on, I think these programs are incredibly developmentally inappropriate at this age), but since the program has pulled off so much of the talent on his rec team, he's not having fun being the only kid out there working. I'm sad that he's giving up something he used to love, but I really can't blame him given what I've seen out on the field.

I tend to agree that lack of skilled coaching may be a part of it as well. My son's team has had a series of parent coaches who never coach more than a single season and who don't have much (if any) of a soccer background, so they basically just herd cats rather than actually teaching soccer skills (that's not a knock on them, I appreciate them stepping up so we could have a team at all). For those kids on the team who got outside coaching (either from a private coach or from a parent who knows the game), they were able to play at a higher level despite the lack of coach instruction at their practices, but for kids more in the middle who have potential but need to be taught the skills, they just haven't progressed much since the beginning.

Not to pile on a 9 year old but something seems odd regarding the logic that you are using. He doesn't want the competitive pressure of travel but bemoans being the "only kid working" at the rec level. What is killing youth soccer is people constantly looking for these "Goldilocks"

Not the pp....but WTF are you talking about???

Our County destroyed the Rec soccer program by making everything pay-to-play. They were taking just about every kid that showed up at travel tryouts---with their 6 teams. Then--for the few that didn't make it--they ushered them into the Development program which was another 'tryout/paid program". The indoor Rec soccer program used to be a blast--but now since most 2nd/3rd graders are travel--you don't have these neighborhood teams anymore. Then---they had to make it so Developmental kid #s were unlimited. So now you have whole teams of developmental players with professional training going up against Rec players that are at much lower level. It's a disaster.

When my firstborn started the Rec program was boisterous and without the Developmental program there was still a high number of talented kids in the Rec program. Kids really forged school/neighborhood bonds and there were many talented parents filling into coach.

I am so glad my kids started prior to the birth year change which had FIRST graders trying out for travel. That is shameful. The amount of burnout I've seen by 10 is massive. It is way too formalized at such a young age. These Clubs also don't make it 'fun' age-appropriate.

13:24/15:24 here, it sounds like we are/were in the same league, but unfortunately we're getting the brunt of the developmental disaster. At least I hope were are and there aren't multiple soccer leagues in the region that are this messed up.

If you want others to have the same commitment, then you need to step up. Be the one that volunteers for the van pool in rec. Also, it's telling to see that you would want others to have commitment in rec soccer, but the minute something fancies your kid and you decide to miss practice or a game, you want it to be ok with the coach. Basically, if you show up, you want everybody else to show up; if you don't show up, you don't want anybody complaining that you didn't show up...

What are you talking about? What van pool? My child has never chosen to miss a practice or game in favor of something else more fun, the only games he has missed in seven seasons of soccer have been due to illness, and once for a funeral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son (9 yo/3rd grade) decided to quit soccer after this fall. He didn't want the competitive pressure of a travel program (which I agree on, I think these programs are incredibly developmentally inappropriate at this age), but since the program has pulled off so much of the talent on his rec team, he's not having fun being the only kid out there working. I'm sad that he's giving up something he used to love, but I really can't blame him given what I've seen out on the field.

I tend to agree that lack of skilled coaching may be a part of it as well. My son's team has had a series of parent coaches who never coach more than a single season and who don't have much (if any) of a soccer background, so they basically just herd cats rather than actually teaching soccer skills (that's not a knock on them, I appreciate them stepping up so we could have a team at all). For those kids on the team who got outside coaching (either from a private coach or from a parent who knows the game), they were able to play at a higher level despite the lack of coach instruction at their practices, but for kids more in the middle who have potential but need to be taught the skills, they just haven't progressed much since the beginning.

Not to pile on a 9 year old but something seems odd regarding the logic that you are using. He doesn't want the competitive pressure of travel but bemoans being the "only kid working" at the rec level. What is killing youth soccer is people constantly looking for these "Goldilocks"

My son wants to go to one practice and one game each week where everyone is putting in their best effort on the field and then gets to go home and enjoy other hobbies and activities as well. He wants a team where everyone shows up 95% of the time and you can rely upon them, but where it's okay to miss a game or practice if there is a compelling reason. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option in our league.

He can go the developmental/travel route where people take it seriously and work hard, but it's multiple practices/games per week that would leave him with no time to commit to another activity he enjoys as well, and where there is no flexibility to miss a practice/game no matter how good the reason. He tried the league academy program for kids interested in travel, but we pulled him (with his agreement) after the program coach punished him by making him sit on the sidelines for an entire practice for having missed the previous practice with a stomach virus. The kid was actively vomiting, but apparently should have come to practice anyway and thrown up all over the field. This was in first grade, and I was deeply disturbed that the league either didn't appreciate or didn't can how inappropriate this was.

The alternative is to keep playing rec, where half the team doesn't even bother trying during practice and spend the games chatting on the field rather than actually playing, and half the parents can't be bothered showing up to practices and games on a regular basis. It's fine If you want to travel four weekends in the fall, but don't sign your kid up for soccer where it means they'll miss half the games. I would keep taking him if he wanted to do it, but he hated it and would rather switch to a different sport where the experience may be better.

the world does not work this way. you can't have travel-level kids playing in the rec system at your son's age. One practice a week is not going to develop the skills needed to be good.

also, not sure what travel program you have looked at but we have missed practice and games for birthday parties, other commitments and our coach has been like, 'they are 10 and I get it.' I don't expect my kid to get a scholarship to college but what I do like is seeing the play improve because he is surrounded by players who want to play, enjoy the game and are competitive. I like the coaching, the discipline and the exercise he gets on a regular basis. There is a lot less nonsense on the travel side (vs rec)! Also, the parents on our team are cool and are always willing to help out with transportation, missing uniforms, activities outside soccer, etc... I think you have perceptions of travel that are not accurate.

[Anonymous]

^^or it could be the particular Club. The pp sounds like they were at our big club. They went nuts if a kid missed for anything starting at 7 years old and kids were treated poorly if they did. They also play in a TON of tournaments even at the earliest ages. Burn out factor very high. There was no feeling of “were in this together”, but more of “how do I step on or put down another kid to improve the chances of my kid moving up.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Travel and rec soccer are not the same thing. They are not even the same game. Rec soccer makes it’s money with the younger kids- no refs, no paid coaches, etc. Little supervision of the coaching and no fundamentals. By 2nd to 3rd grade most kids leave rec.

I don’t blame them either. I have seen many kids who showed some promise and interest in the game get stuck at fullback/defense because the coach’s kid play forward or practices where the one kid who has some dribbling skills is tackled and thrown to the ground repeatedly(at 7 years old) because that’s good defense. Till the kid gets hurts and never goes back out.

The rec system is just as big a problem as the pay for play system.

At U4 to U11 there is no "rec system" -- there are individual clubs with largely volunteer rec soccer programs of varying quality.

At U11 and above in NoVA/DC -- there is the Suburban Friendship League. Website is http://www.sflsoccer.org SFL does a great job coordinating inter-club games for 20-plus area club rec programs. About 700 local rec teams participate in SFL for spring and fall soccer in ages U11-U19. So there actually are lots of local kids still playing rec soccer beyond U9 or U10 in this area. All SFL games have paid referees, and there are some high quality players, coaches and teams throughout the league.

[Anonymous]

13:24 - I kind of see your point. The makeup of teams does change once kids get funneled off to Travel and developmental. We're in Arlington and our 3rd grade rec team has managed to stay together despite two kids also playing travel and 1 also doing developmental. But those three can get frustrated at times with the kids who screw around at practice and in games.

we got stuck in the birth year thing - my daughter had to try out for travel at the end of first grade. She made it in (barely) but didn't make it for a second year. She just couldn't compete with bigger, more mature kids who had been playing for a full year longer. So we went for developmental, where she's getting a ton more playing time, but gets frustrated at the lack of focus compared to the kids she knew in travel. Meanwhile, the kids who got to try out with their classmates made it onto great travel teams and are doing well not having to "play up." She gets a little frustrated that because of the birth year thing, they're playing travel and she's not.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone think the drop-off might be because of the sheer numbers playing soccer in the first place, vs. the other options? There aren't a ton of options for kindergarten rec sports, and so many parents see it as the gateway sport for kids. Then the kids get a bit older and there are more options and they start doing other things. Then there isn't time for everything, so maybe they drop the soccer in favor of baseball or something else.

The soccer rec system in our county dwarfs any other sport at the early years. Then kids start peeling off for softball/baseball, lacrosse, football, field hockey, etc. once those options become available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^or it could be the particular Club. The pp sounds like they were at our big club. They went nuts if a kid missed for anything starting at 7 years old and kids were treated poorly if they did. They also play in a TON of tournaments even at the earliest ages. Burn out factor very high. There was no feeling of “were in this together”, but more of “how do I step on or put down another kid to improve the chances of my kid moving up.”

Please post the club, people not taking their kids there might eventually force the club to change their ways, or they will have less registrations.