Want to "empower" more DCPS students? Have schools offer speech class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are communicating quite effectively in the particular dialect of English they speak, which linguists refer to as AAVE. It sounds "wrong", "low class" and "unclear" to you because it's coded as Black and you, as an average white American, subconsciously view all things coded Black as inferior and threatening.

Now, that said, they certainly need to know how to code switch into Standard American English if they want to be hired at most white collar workplaces, since most hiring managers are lowkey racist just like you. Too bad.

But I think way too many kids miss out on learning Standard American English because they are rarely exposed to it at home and among peers and this is turn the contributes to the continuing achievement gap because standardized tests and school texts are presented only in Standard American English.

[Anonymous]

Another stupid racist thread - I really wish DCUM would compel people to ID where they live at least so we could separate out the mostly ignorant and racist suburbanites on here from the actual urbanites.

In any case I opened this thinking the thread was about Competitive Speech Classes and Teams/Meets which most good school systems offer - does DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another stupid racist thread - I really wish DCUM would compel people to ID where they live at least so we could separate out the mostly ignorant and racist suburbanites on here from the actual urbanites.

In any case I opened this thinking the thread was about Competitive Speech Classes and Teams/Meets which most good school systems offer - does DCPS?

agreed. I thought it was about a public speaking class, which I took in high school and found invaluable. No one's actual speaking was critiqued except for volume. And as this was an integrated public school in the south, we all delivered our memorized speeches in our various dialects. It was great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the more economically impactful steps that DCPS could take is to provide basic elocution lessons for a lot of its students. The stark truth is that many DCPS students don't know how to speak well. Speech is frequently slurred, mumbled, badly enunciated, and often is street slang. I'm sorry if that offends someone's idea of cultural sensitivity and inclusion. To be frank, there is no room in my business -- and I suspect this is also the case with most offices -- to include anyone who can't communicate clearly and effectively. DCPS could alter the economic prospects of many at risk kids and other poor students if it thought them to speak in intelligible sentences in standard American English.

Do you have anything to back this up, or is this just based on a stereotype? I have not observed this at all -- in my interactions with DCPS students, they are not markedly different in the clarity of their speech than students elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Ok but let's not use "impactful!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Speak Standard American English” means “sound white,” right?

No, sound educated, which isn't associated with a race.

[Anonymous]

Black Former Ward 8 DCPS Teacher Here,

While this topic has the potential for racism and classism, a lot of teachers wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I remember reading about "African American Vernacular" in college, and I find it offensive to suggest that the broken English, mumbling, and slurring of words fits that category. We don't teach our students to "talk white," but we do expect them to speak clearly and enunciate.

"You got me guh" is not AAVE; it's slang and inappropriate for professional settings. Many of our students grow up in homes and areas where this is all they hear, so they are unprepared for the workplace. I don't chastise or belittle them for the way that they talk, but I do teach them alternative, professionally appropriate ways to communicate the same message. Call it "Codeswitching 101." I hold them to that standard as the year progresses.

I appreciate everyone who is trying to be culturally sensitive, but when you step into a room full of ninth graders and every other word is a curse word or slang, you quickly recognize that something is wrong. The peculiar thing is that a lot of them don't even understand that expletive-laden dialogue with a teacher or administrator is wrong. They will sit there and plead that they aren't disrespecting you. "What you mean, Bob? ("Bob" is a general pronoun, not a person's name) I'm just talking! I ain't even say nothing to disrespect you like that."

P.C. has its limits.

[Anonymous]

I'd offer that there is some of this in white kid culture too. My kid has a teacher this year who makes them look him in the eye and shake his hand at the beginning of the day. He also has forbidden "like" unless it's used in a simile, and is fighting a valiant fight against the world of emojis and text slang.

I love this man.

[Anonymous]

Big point should be "speak so you are understood," not culture wars, and second point is, be aware of how you are perceived based on how you speak.

So - professionally, you have to get above a mumble, keep the ums out, etc. However, I believe that most Americans with any kind of cross-cultural contact know enough to understand AAVE or World War I British Radio English or vice versa.

The question of how you are perceived matters, and I want our high school students to be perceived as intelligent people. But come on, adults, don't be racist. If the kid solves the algebra problem and explains his answer in non-TV-standard English, he still solved the problem.

[Anonymous]

Black Former Ward 8 DCPS Teacher Here,

While this topic has the potential for racism and classism, a lot of teachers wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I remember reading about "African American Vernacular" in college, and I find it offensive to suggest that the broken English, mumbling, and slurring of words fits that category. We don't teach our students to "talk white," but we do expect them to speak clearly and enunciate.

"You got me guh" is not AAVE; it's slang and inappropriate for professional settings. Many of our students grow up in homes and areas where this is all they hear, so they are unprepared for the workplace. I don't chastise or belittle them for the way that they talk, but I do teach them alternative, professionally appropriate ways to communicate the same message. Call it "Codeswitching 101." I hold them to that standard as the year progresses.

I appreciate everyone who is trying to be culturally sensitive, but when you step into a room full of ninth graders and every other word is a curse word or slang, you quickly recognize that something is wrong. The peculiar thing is that a lot of them don't even understand that expletive-laden dialogue with a teacher or administrator is wrong. They will sit there and plead that they aren't disrespecting you. "What you mean, Bob? ("Bob" is a general pronoun, not a person's name) I'm just talking! I ain't even say nothing to disrespect you like that."

P.C. has its limits.

+1

And the lack of exposure to standard English in the home certainly has a detrimental effect on students' performance on standardized tests. You cannot close the achievement gap without recognizing the factors that contribute to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Black Former Ward 8 DCPS Teacher Here,

While this topic has the potential for racism and classism, a lot of teachers wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I remember reading about "African American Vernacular" in college, and I find it offensive to suggest that the broken English, mumbling, and slurring of words fits that category. We don't teach our students to "talk white," but we do expect them to speak clearly and enunciate.

"You got me guh" is not AAVE; it's slang and inappropriate for professional settings. Many of our students grow up in homes and areas where this is all they hear, so they are unprepared for the workplace. I don't chastise or belittle them for the way that they talk, but I do teach them alternative, professionally appropriate ways to communicate the same message. Call it "Codeswitching 101." I hold them to that standard as the year progresses.

I appreciate everyone who is trying to be culturally sensitive, but when you step into a room full of ninth graders and every other word is a curse word or slang, you quickly recognize that something is wrong. The peculiar thing is that a lot of them don't even understand that expletive-laden dialogue with a teacher or administrator is wrong. They will sit there and plead that they aren't disrespecting you. "What you mean, Bob? ("Bob" is a general pronoun, not a person's name) I'm just talking! I ain't even say nothing to disrespect you like that."

P.C. has its limits.

+1

And the lack of exposure to standard English in the home certainly has a detrimental effect on students' performance on standardized tests. You cannot close the achievement gap without recognizing the factors that contribute to it.

+2. I'm black and grew up in the South, but am of West Indian heritage. Depending on who I'm talking to, I can code-switch between what you would call AAVE (southern variant) and a West Indian patois and Standard American English like a champ. It's important for kids to know what's appropriate in different contexts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last time I checked, mumbling and failure to enunciate were clear symptoms of adolescence, regardless of location or school system. Thanks for your concern!

So true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Black Former Ward 8 DCPS Teacher Here,

While this topic has the potential for racism and classism, a lot of teachers wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I remember reading about "African American Vernacular" in college, and I find it offensive to suggest that the broken English, mumbling, and slurring of words fits that category. We don't teach our students to "talk white," but we do expect them to speak clearly and enunciate.

"You got me guh" is not AAVE; it's slang and inappropriate for professional settings. Many of our students grow up in homes and areas where this is all they hear, so they are unprepared for the workplace. I don't chastise or belittle them for the way that they talk, but I do teach them alternative, professionally appropriate ways to communicate the same message. Call it "Codeswitching 101." I hold them to that standard as the year progresses.

I appreciate everyone who is trying to be culturally sensitive, but when you step into a room full of ninth graders and every other word is a curse word or slang, you quickly recognize that something is wrong. The peculiar thing is that a lot of them don't even understand that expletive-laden dialogue with a teacher or administrator is wrong. They will sit there and plead that they aren't disrespecting you. "What you mean, Bob? ("Bob" is a general pronoun, not a person's name) I'm just talking! I ain't even say nothing to disrespect you like that."

P.C. has its limits.

This is such a great post. Did some/most/all of your students make significant progress toward workplace-appropriate speech over the course of a year? It would be wonderful if Key & Peele (or other funny people or celebrities) did some educational videos that teachers could use to introduce the topic.

[Anonymous]

I hear you OP. The amount of grammatically incorrect speech I hear around my child's DCPS elementary is really shocking. I don't care whether you call it slang or another dialect but the truth is its grammatically incorrect. If those kids think they will be able to speak like that and be successful in a professional environment they are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the more economically impactful steps that DCPS could take is to provide basic elocution lessons for a lot of its students. The stark truth is that many DCPS students don't know how to speak well. Speech is frequently slurred, mumbled, badly enunciated, and often is street slang. I'm sorry if that offends someone's idea of cultural sensitivity and inclusion. To be frank, there is no room in my business -- and I suspect this is also the case with most offices -- to include anyone who can't communicate clearly and effectively. DCPS could alter the economic prospects of many at risk MISSING A HYPHENkids and other poor students if it thought TAUGHT them to speak in intelligible sentences in standard American English.

Pot, meet the Kettle.