Food for Thought

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am currently a homebound teacher with FCPS, and I have to say that we are inundated with requests from students who have anxiety issues or are suicidal from the pressures placed on them over time. AAP centers may be a good fit for some, but not for all.

But you can't say this is caused by AAP even if there is a correlation. I think more often it is internal pressure from smart kids. There is a positive correlation between giftedness generally (special program or not) and anxiety. My gifted kid and a few others I know started suffering from anxiety around 4 years old. In our case, he was at a play-based preschool so it certainly had nothing to do with any type of pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, OP, if your child stayed in Gen Ed, she would have been at the top of her class, number 1 in everything. Wouldn't that have been just as detrimental?

Why would you assume that a middle of the pack kid in AAP would be "at the top of her class, number 1 in everything" in Gen Ed? Plenty of kids get into AAP who didn't even qualify for the top math class in 2nd grade or who aren't reading at an advanced level. Plenty of AAP kids don't score pass advanced in their SOLs, whereas gen ed kids might. Plenty of AAP kids don't qualify for 7th grade algebra, and plenty of gen ed kids do.

Maybe some of this anxiety is occurring because AAP kids believe that while they're middle of the pack in their classes, they're at least better than all of the Gen Ed kids. Then they reach high school and learn that they're bright but nothing special.

[Anonymous]

Yes, their are some kids in gen ed that are more advanced than kids in AAP. There are also plenty of kids in gen ed that are barely passing minimum requirements. Given a choice, I'd push my kids to be part of AAP.

[Anonymous]

I think children are naturally lazy, and "you're not good enough and the road to being better is working harder" is a much better message than "you're so good, you're perfect." Anyone can be better.

[Anonymous]

I will say OP that this could easily be a function of your daughter. It is true that many with her makeup are gifted. My DD will find something to stress about. It doesn't matter whether it is hard, easy, or in between. Maybe AAP is contributing to her wandering down the OCD and perfectionism road but I honestly think that is a road she was going to walk down no matter what. My DS on the other hand, could use a little perfectionism in his life but no AAP or other program is going to provide it to him. His ego is pretty much unshakeable whether he is exceptional, average, or behind the curve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say OP that this could easily be a function of your daughter. It is true that many with her makeup are gifted. My DD will find something to stress about. It doesn't matter whether it is hard, easy, or in between. Maybe AAP is contributing to her wandering down the OCD and perfectionism road but I honestly think that is a road she was going to walk down no matter what. My DS on the other hand, could use a little perfectionism in his life but no AAP or other program is going to provide it to him. His ego is pretty much unshakeable whether he is exceptional, average, or behind the curve.

Could be right, but wouldn't you think the AAP program might take that into account since it is a common theme among gifted learners? Although I guess AAP isn't really a gifted program, but more of an accelerated pace program for students who can handle the accelerated pace. If it were a true "gifted" program, the approach would like consider the emotional issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Your child is wrong, but it's not surprising that she would have a warped view of things since she's stressed out, depressed, and still being a child, doesn't have much perspective on her life. Give her 20 years.

She should work on not being so negative (ie, blaming something outside of herself for something that comes from inside and that she needs to work on).

You my friend are the posterior end of a donkey. The OP's daughter is not wrong, this is how she feels and her feelings are valid. I know kids that feel the same sense of stress about AAP and TJ about the need to be perfect. My kid can handle it because she doesn't care what her classmates think, like the ones that need to talk about SOL scores the last day of school. They bullied her to share her scores, she eventually relented and when they saw she did better than them they got mean. This was not all of the kids only a few of them, one of which WAS one of her friends.

[Anonymous]

DC is in HS now and is not like this. I don't think OP's kid can blame her personality on AAP.
Also, it lasts from 3-8 grade so if the parents saw something amiss they should have pulled her out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is in HS now and is not like this. I don't think OP's kid can blame her personality on AAP.
Also, it lasts from 3-8 grade so if the parents saw something amiss they should have pulled her out.

OP here. Not blaming her personality on AAP. My point is that it may not be right for certain kids. Interestingly, many gifted kids are perfectionists and have anxiety. Ironically, AAP may not be the right choice for those gifted kids.

I love that you are trying to make this my parenting fail, but my kid left before 8th because we moved. We could not see her internal struggle until much later and she only came to pinpoint AAP as negative for her by looking back with the help of her therapist. If it's working for your child, good for you. I just wanted to have people consider their child's personality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is in HS now and is not like this. I don't think OP's kid can blame her personality on AAP.
Also, it lasts from 3-8 grade so if the parents saw something amiss they should have pulled her out.

OP here. Not blaming her personality on AAP. My point is that it may not be right for certain kids. Interestingly, many gifted kids are perfectionists and have anxiety. Ironically, AAP may not be the right choice for those gifted kids.

I love that you are trying to make this my parenting fail, but my kid left before 8th because we moved. We could not see her internal struggle until much later and she only came to pinpoint AAP as negative for her by looking back with the help of her therapist. If it's working for your child, good for you. I just wanted to have people consider their child's personality.

^ fair enough. I'm sure it's not right for some kids. But like you said, you didn't even know there was a problem until later. So not sure what we're supposed to be looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is in HS now and is not like this. I don't think OP's kid can blame her personality on AAP.
Also, it lasts from 3-8 grade so if the parents saw something amiss they should have pulled her out.

OP here. Not blaming her personality on AAP. My point is that it may not be right for certain kids. Interestingly, many gifted kids are perfectionists and have anxiety. Ironically, AAP may not be the right choice for those gifted kids.

I love that you are trying to make this my parenting fail, but my kid left before 8th because we moved. We could not see her internal struggle until much later and she only came to pinpoint AAP as negative for her by looking back with the help of her therapist. If it's working for your child, good for you. I just wanted to have people consider their child's personality.

^ fair enough. I'm sure it's not right for some kids. But like you said, you didn't even know there was a problem until later. So not sure what we're supposed to be looking for.

Probably very sensitive, low confidence, anxious, perfectionist. It may not be clear by 3rd grade, but there are signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are projecting the cause on the center. Your child's personality is what it is. AAP doesn't make a child a perfectionist. It might exacerbate the child's anxiety or perfectionism, but it was there already.

Every center is different. Every kid is different. Don't blame AAP as a whole for whatever proclivities your child has.

I don't blame AAP. My child does. My point was that it is a tough culture and not right for every kids (including many, like my child, that had high IQ scores). I want people to think through whether it's right for their child and not be minded by the prestige or whatever. My DD is bright, artsy and incredibly introverted. For her, it fed on her weaknesses and insecurities. Like I said, it could be a good fit for other kids.

OP I applaud your pointing this out. The AAP centers and some parents really can unintentionally put a lot of pressure on the kids to be perfect and some of the kids pick this up as well. Kids wanting to know what my DD got on her assignments and tests to see if they did better than her, she does really well but doesn't like to compete on grades. Kids bragging to their parents that they got a better score than the smartest kid in the class on an assignment, I have seen this first hand. There are generally enough of those kids who feel they need to compete to create some pressure. Our DD is fine so far, but she tries to avoid those kids. SOLs are the worst though, in 3rd grade our DD got really stressed because a group of kids were telling everyone that if you don't get passed advanced on all of your SOLs they kick you out of AAP. The teacher had already sent an email with a list of practice sites and said she was sure the kids would all do well and not to get the kids stressed out for the SOLs and that the kids should do their best and no one should be upset if their kid doesn't get all pass advanced.
We actually contacted the teacher on this so she could stop the rumor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: OP I applaud your pointing this out. The AAP centers and some parents really can unintentionally put a lot of pressure on the kids to be perfect and some of the kids pick this up as well. Kids wanting to know what my DD got on her assignments and tests to see if they did better than her, she does really well but doesn't like to compete on grades. Kids bragging to their parents that they got a better score than the smartest kid in the class on an assignment, I have seen this first hand. There are generally enough of those kids who feel they need to compete to create some pressure. Our DD is fine so far, but she tries to avoid those kids. SOLs are the worst though, in 3rd grade our DD got really stressed because a group of kids were telling everyone that if you don't get passed advanced on all of your SOLs they kick you out of AAP. The teacher had already sent an email with a list of practice sites and said she was sure the kids would all do well and not to get the kids stressed out for the SOLs and that the kids should do their best and no one should be upset if their kid doesn't get all pass advanced. We actually contacted the teacher on this so she could stop the rumor.

It was generous of you to use unintentionally, I see parents at our center intentionally put pressure on their kids to be perfect. I have seen one parent ask their kid if they did better then ??? this time. ??? is a kid that the parent has questioned whether or not he is smart enough to be at the center. ??? is terribly lazy (his Mom's words) but is scary smart (my DS's words). My DS is certain he is one of the smartest people he has ever met, based on my very limited interaction with ???, he might be one of the smartest people I have ever met. He asked questions on a field trip (4th grade) that the expert told me were more insightful than what he used to get from his college students when he was in academia. I couldn't even follow the questions (it was science, I am in finance).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: OP I applaud your pointing this out. The AAP centers and some parents really can unintentionally put a lot of pressure on the kids to be perfect and some of the kids pick this up as well. Kids wanting to know what my DD got on her assignments and tests to see if they did better than her, she does really well but doesn't like to compete on grades. Kids bragging to their parents that they got a better score than the smartest kid in the class on an assignment, I have seen this first hand. There are generally enough of those kids who feel they need to compete to create some pressure. Our DD is fine so far, but she tries to avoid those kids. SOLs are the worst though, in 3rd grade our DD got really stressed because a group of kids were telling everyone that if you don't get passed advanced on all of your SOLs they kick you out of AAP. The teacher had already sent an email with a list of practice sites and said she was sure the kids would all do well and not to get the kids stressed out for the SOLs and that the kids should do their best and no one should be upset if their kid doesn't get all pass advanced. We actually contacted the teacher on this so she could stop the rumor.

It was generous of you to use unintentionally, I see parents at our center [b]intentionally put pressure on their kids to be perfect.[/b] I have seen one parent ask their kid if they did better then ??? this time. ??? is a kid that the parent has questioned whether or not he is smart enough to be at the center. ??? is terribly lazy (his Mom's words) but is scary smart (my DS's words). My DS is certain he is one of the smartest people he has ever met, based on my very limited interaction with ???, he might be one of the smartest people I have ever met. He asked questions on a field trip (4th grade) that the expert told me were more insightful than what he used to get from his college students when he was in academia. I couldn't even follow the questions (it was science, I am in finance).

+1 on the bold part

[Anonymous]

For my +1, the whole first sentence was supposed to be bold, oops.