Effective Prayer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I very rarely pray for intervention, let alone a specific outcome. I pray to give thanks, and will pray for God to give extra strength and support to someone going through a tough time (including myself), but that's it. I was raised to believe it is presumptuous to ask God to do things or change outcomes, because God in his infinite wisdom can make those decisions on His own.

So if, God forbid, a loved one was in a dangerous situation, you wouldn't pray to God to keep them safe and alive? If you lost your job and rent is due in 2 weeks and you have $10 in your checking account, you won't pray for a job offer at a place you just interviewed at?

I agree that devotion is important, but really, it's God's job to help us when we are in need. And, being human, it's unrealistic that we won't ask for Divine intervention to achieve the goals we want in our lives. The only people who never do that are saints, and saints tend to lead completely different lives altogether.

If so, god is not doing very weell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I very rarely pray for intervention, let alone a specific outcome. I pray to give thanks, and will pray for God to give extra strength and support to someone going through a tough time (including myself), but that's it. I was raised to believe it is presumptuous to ask God to do things or change outcomes, because God in his infinite wisdom can make those decisions on His own.

So if, God forbid, a loved one was in a dangerous situation, you wouldn't pray to God to keep them safe and alive? If you lost your job and rent is due in 2 weeks and you have $10 in your checking account, you won't pray for a job offer at a place you just interviewed at?

I agree that devotion is important, but really, it's God's job to help us when we are in need. And, being human, it's unrealistic that we won't ask for Divine intervention to achieve the goals we want in our lives. The only people who never do that are saints, and saints tend to lead completely different lives altogether.

I will pray for God to watch over them, but I trust him to know what his role is without my input. God is all-knowing, he knows about a loved one in a dangerous situation and about a lost job and rent due, he doesn't need me to call his attention to it or telling him what the "right" outcome is. In that sense, even asking for God to give peace, strength, support, etc., is presumptuous, but it feels less so because I'm not asking for a particular event to happen. That doesn't mean I've never prayed for an outcome in a moment of weakness (I said rarely), I'm human, it happens.

Thanks for this reply, it is definitely admirable that you are so trusting and surrendered. It reminds of some stuff my spiritual teachers have said, so this is definitely a valid approach.

[Anonymous]

This thread reminds me of the old joke:

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the river would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room in our car for you to come with us!” But the man said, “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What the hell were you looking for?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminds me of the old joke:

The old joke has zero applicability to this thread.

The original question wasn't, "How can I sit on my ass and eat potato chips all day and expect boons to fall into my lap?" It was, "How can I pray effectively?" It goes without saying that human effort is required. That's a given. But if you think God is just there to pat you on the shoulder and sit back and eat His potato chips while human effort does all the work, you worship a useless God. Even atheists agree that all the effort you put into working towards a goal can be useless if you have incredibly bad luck.

Divine intervention can and has created miracles. Miracles are recorded in every religion. People being warned of disaster by angelic beings ahead of time, people being saved from cancer at the last possible second, people surviving disastrous accidents, etc.

And the human effort + luck part? That luck part is God, and sometimes significant luck is required. Sorry you loathe yourself so much that you don't think you deserve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminds me of the old joke:

The old joke has zero applicability to this thread.

The original question wasn't, "How can I sit on my ass and eat potato chips all day and expect boons to fall into my lap?" It was, "How can I pray effectively?" It goes without saying that human effort is required. That's a given. But if you think God is just there to pat you on the shoulder and sit back and eat His potato chips while human effort does all the work, you worship a useless God. Even atheists agree that all the effort you put into working towards a goal can be useless if you have incredibly bad luck.

Divine intervention can and has created miracles. Miracles are recorded in every religion. People being warned of disaster by angelic beings ahead of time, people being saved from cancer at the last possible second, people surviving disastrous accidents, etc.

And the human effort + luck part? That luck part is God, and sometimes significant luck is required. Sorry you loathe yourself so much that you don't think you deserve it.

:::whoosh:::

That was the point flying over your head.

The man in the joke prayed effectively. He got exactly what he was praying for. He just didn't recognize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminds me of the old joke:

The old joke has zero applicability to this thread.

The original question wasn't, "How can I sit on my ass and eat potato chips all day and expect boons to fall into my lap?" It was, "How can I pray effectively?" It goes without saying that human effort is required. That's a given. But if you think God is just there to pat you on the shoulder and sit back and eat His potato chips while human effort does all the work, you worship a useless God. Even atheists agree that all the effort you put into working towards a goal can be useless if you have incredibly bad luck.

Divine intervention can and has created miracles. Miracles are recorded in every religion. People being warned of disaster by angelic beings ahead of time, people being saved from cancer at the last possible second, people surviving disastrous accidents, etc.

And the human effort + luck part? That luck part is God, and sometimes significant luck is required. Sorry you loathe yourself so much that you don't think you deserve it.

:::whoosh:::

That was the point flying over your head.

The man in the joke prayed effectively. He got exactly what he was praying for. He just didn't recognize it.

Nope, I got exactly what you meant, and it was the point of this thread that flew over your head. The implication of your "joke" was that lazy believers don't seize opportunities when their prayers are answered.

Your "joke" would have made a lot more sense if you had explained what exactly the man did during his prayer process to make God send several different types of aid his way. The story of your "joke" doesn't go into the details of the man's emotional state, or faith, or prayer ritual though, because the point of the joke is to discuss people who just pray for help but don't take action. Hope that helps you out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread reminds me of the old joke:

The old joke has zero applicability to this thread.

The original question wasn't, "How can I sit on my ass and eat potato chips all day and expect boons to fall into my lap?" It was, "How can I pray effectively?" It goes without saying that human effort is required. That's a given. But if you think God is just there to pat you on the shoulder and sit back and eat His potato chips while human effort does all the work, you worship a useless God. Even atheists agree that all the effort you put into working towards a goal can be useless if you have incredibly bad luck.

Divine intervention can and has created miracles. Miracles are recorded in every religion. People being warned of disaster by angelic beings ahead of time, people being saved from cancer at the last possible second, people surviving disastrous accidents, etc.

And the human effort + luck part? That luck part is God, and sometimes significant luck is required. Sorry you loathe yourself so much that you don't think you deserve it.

:::whoosh:::

That was the point flying over your head.

The man in the joke prayed effectively. He got exactly what he was praying for. He just didn't recognize it.

Nope, I got exactly what you meant, and it was the point of this thread that flew over your head. The implication of your "joke" was that lazy believers don't seize opportunities when their prayers are answered.

Your "joke" would have made a lot more sense if you had explained what exactly the man did during his prayer process to make God send several different types of aid his way. The story of your "joke" doesn't go into the details of the man's emotional state, or faith, or prayer ritual though, because the point of the joke is to discuss people who just pray for help but don't take action. Hope that helps you out.

Ah, so there's a method to making prayer effective? If only God or the church of your choice (or you, for that matter) published the directions. "Send $10 to this address for my foolproof method for getting God to answer your prayers."

No one can prove that one mental or emotional state over another, or one format of requests over another will result in "effective" intercessory prayer, not will the results necessarily take the form you expect. As they say, "God helps those who help themselves." The point is that if you look for opportunities you will find them.

[Anonymous]

Ah, so there's a method to making prayer effective? If only God or the church of your choice (or you, for that matter) published the directions. "Send $10 to this address for my foolproof method for getting God to answer your prayers."

But evidently there are such methods, because there's a reason why, for example, Muslims are shown the most powerful verses in the Quran and are taught meditation techniques (especially Sufis) to connect more deeply with God. A quick Google search of "powerful Bible prayers" shows any number of Christian websites claiming things like, "These are the most powerful prayers from the Bible" or "this prayer is particularly effective for this particular need." Then religions like Hinduism and Buddhism have this down to a science with different mantras keyed to different universal energies, different ways of meditating before prayer, different rituals, etc.

No one can prove that one mental or emotional state over another, or one format of requests over another will result in "effective" intercessory prayer, not will the results necessarily take the form you expect. As they say, "God helps those who help themselves." The point is that if you look for opportunities you will find them.

Of course nobody can prove scientifically that one mental or emotional state helps us connect to God, or to the energy of prayer, or to the psychological keys for our faith. We can't prove scientifically that God exists either, yet I believe God exists and you believe God exists. But we all know that one person who is a effective "prayer warrior", and I do believe it is possible to learn to pray more effectively. That doesn't mean God is at our beck and call, or that we don't have to work hard, or that we don't have to learn to be less materialistic, or that we don't have to learn faith, trust and surrender. All of that is important. It doesn't mean we can't learn how increase the odds (on a metaphysical level) that our prayers will be answered. If the notion of increased Divine intervention in someone's life is annoying or offensive to you, that's fine. We don't have to agree.

[Anonymous]

Op Jesus gives us the model for prayer in the Lords Prayer. He even said, "pray in this way." I don't think that necessarily means word for word, but in structure.

Start with worship and praise. (Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.)
Acknowledge His will for us (thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven)
Ask for your needs (Give us this day our daily bread)
Repent of your sin and forgive others (forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors)
Acknowledge that you need His care and help (lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil)
End with praise (for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op Jesus gives us the model for prayer in the Lords Prayer. He even said, "pray in this way." I don't think that necessarily means word for word, but in structure.

Start with worship and praise. (Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.)
Acknowledge His will for us (thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven)
Ask for your needs (Give us this day our daily bread)
Repent of your sin and forgive others (forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors)
Acknowledge that you need His care and help (lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil)
End with praise (for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever!)

Thank you, this is beautiful!

[Anonymous]

People praying to an invisible being in the sky in 2017

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People praying to an invisible being in the sky in 2017

What's so special about 2017?

[Anonymous]

Ma tahaks andeks saada,et ma magasin oma täiskasvanud pojaga ja olime vahekorras.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you are asking for magic spells, not prayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to figure out a format for effective prayers to a Higher Power. I'm religious though not Christian, but I'm interested in hearing from people of every religion on one condition: you prayed in a specific way/format/routine and it actually worked.

Here's what I mean by format:
- Did you make offerings while praying? (candles, bread, etc)
- Did you offer to do something in exchange for your wish being granted? (e.g. "Lord, if you grant me ____, I will feed 100 hungry children in Your name.")
- Did you follow certain steps, such as praising God, explaining your problem, and then asking for help?
- Do you need to be a particular emotional state for the prayer to work?
- If you believe surrender is part of the prayer, what does surrender mean to you?

Any examples of prayers that were granted would be helpful too!

The prayers that work are not those that ask for solutions to problems. They are the ones that ask for you to have the ability to handle your problems. "Give me the serenity to........" "Help me a just to the new normal.......". "Give me the strength to ......"