The higher the demand, the lower the percent of economically disadvantaged students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
From the data, it would seem that as a school raises in profile and its waitlist increases in size, that waitlist would have a greater percent of higher SES students. The result is that the percent disadvantaged will continue to decrease year-by-year for that school.

Yes and no.

Cap City used to have a much higher percentage of high SES students than they do now. Then other charters emerged, they expanded to middle and high school and moved to Ward 4. These things can absolutely change over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many different spins do we have to put on it?! We were looking for the "best schools" and the "best schools" in our mind were the ones with the best scores. Best scores come with high SES families and the areas of high rent or mortgage.
My kids is one of the economically disadvantage students, but I got him into best possible school my budget allowed. And I do recognize that it's not do doable for most. Studios here rent for more than many people make and they have a 2-person occupancy limit.
At our bigger condo, neighbor tried to get us evicted because he have 3 people living in (huge) 1-bedroom and according to him it's too many per some old bylaws. Would've never happened in low income housing /area.
So there is some self-segregating, but there's also plenty of outside help. So the segregation continues.
I've helped 3 of my friends into good schools once I got into one. One got into Ross off the waitlist, one into Stoddert and one is moving to Oyster.

Why aren't the "best schools" the ones that can grow your kid the most? That's not necessarily the ones with the best scores. Some of the best scoring schools do a fantastic job on student growth and others are nothing special. There are also schools that have moderate scores but show consistently above average growth.

Why don't you pull the growth scores and show us the top 10 elementaries?

Last time I looked I had to pull it individually from each school on the DCPS profiles page and charter PMF reports. It's not easy, although it should be.

DCPS doesn't release them anymore. You can get them from the charters (see Tier reports)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many different spins do we have to put on it?! We were looking for the "best schools" and the "best schools" in our mind were the ones with the best scores. Best scores come with high SES families and the areas of high rent or mortgage.
My kids is one of the economically disadvantage students, but I got him into best possible school my budget allowed. And I do recognize that it's not do doable for most. Studios here rent for more than many people make and they have a 2-person occupancy limit.
At our bigger condo, neighbor tried to get us evicted because he have 3 people living in (huge) 1-bedroom and according to him it's too many per some old bylaws. Would've never happened in low income housing /area.
So there is some self-segregating, but there's also plenty of outside help. So the segregation continues.
I've helped 3 of my friends into good schools once I got into one. One got into Ross off the waitlist, one into Stoddert and one is moving to Oyster.

Why aren't the "best schools" the ones that can grow your kid the most? That's not necessarily the ones with the best scores. Some of the best scoring schools do a fantastic job on student growth and others are nothing special. There are also schools that have moderate scores but show consistently above average growth.

Why don't you pull the growth scores and show us the top 10 elementaries?

Last time I looked I had to pull it individually from each school on the DCPS profiles page and charter PMF reports. It's not easy, although it should be.

DCPS doesn't release them anymore. You can get them from the charters (see Tier reports)

DCPS does report student growth. Like I said before, you can pull them individually from the DCPS profiles pages of each individual school. It's about as convenient to find and compare as the charter PMF reports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you have it backwards.

The lower the percentage of disadvantaged students, the higher the demand.

^This. To re-frame in simpler terms: people with choices prefer good over bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have it backwards.

The lower the percentage of disadvantaged students, the higher the demand.

^This. To re-frame in simpler terms: people with choices prefer good over bad.

in sum,

rich = good

poor = bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have it backwards.

The lower the percentage of disadvantaged students, the higher the demand.

^This. To re-frame in simpler terms: people with choices prefer good over bad.

the question is raised though, does a school become 'good' when there are less poor kids there, or does a well run school attract non-poor?

hmm...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have it backwards.

The lower the percentage of disadvantaged students, the higher the demand.

^This. To re-frame in simpler terms: people with choices prefer good over bad.

Is that quality perception or reality? Some of the schools with lower disadvantaged students don't have very impressive test scores

[Anonymous]

We are solidly middle-class and comfortable and went to ivy leagues for higher education and our kids attend a charter school that is more than 50% low SES. Our kids are thriving and are academically on par or above with kids of our friends - most of whom are solidly middle-class like us or very high SES. Our friends "marvel" at how well are kids are doing and I give credit to the school all the time, plus the fact that we are very engaged parents. Despite this, most of our circle would never consider sending their kids to our school. They prefer to pay for private when they strike out at one of the schools that has a much higher percentage of high SES students and a higher percentage of white students. There is honesty around this and it is known that our values do not align with theirs on this. We are happy and interestingly, they are the ones who complain all the time and struggle to cope with learning and behavior issues at their schools. But if you see black and brown and low income as "not good" then educational segregation will just continue and the charter school system is not immune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are solidly middle-class and comfortable and went to ivy leagues for higher education and our kids attend a charter school that is more than 50% low SES. Our kids are thriving and are academically on par or above with kids of our friends - most of whom are solidly middle-class like us or very high SES. Our friends "marvel" at how well are kids are doing and I give credit to the school all the time, plus the fact that we are very engaged parents. Despite this, most of our circle would never consider sending their kids to our school. They prefer to pay for private when they strike out at one of the schools that has a much higher percentage of high SES students and a higher percentage of white students. There is honesty around this and it is known that our values do not align with theirs on this. We are happy and interestingly, they are the ones who complain all the time and struggle to cope with learning and behavior issues at their schools. But if you see black and brown and low income as "not good" then educational segregation will just continue and the charter school system is not immune.

+1

We have a similar experience at our EOTP DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many different spins do we have to put on it?! We were looking for the "best schools" and the "best schools" in our mind were the ones with the best scores. Best scores come with high SES families and the areas of high rent or mortgage.
My kids is one of the economically disadvantage students, but I got him into best possible school my budget allowed. And I do recognize that it's not do doable for most. Studios here rent for more than many people make and they have a 2-person occupancy limit.
At our bigger condo, neighbor tried to get us evicted because he have 3 people living in (huge) 1-bedroom and according to him it's too many per some old bylaws. Would've never happened in low income housing /area.
So there is some self-segregating, but there's also plenty of outside help. So the segregation continues.
I've helped 3 of my friends into good schools once I got into one. One got into Ross off the waitlist, one into Stoddert and one is moving to Oyster.

Why aren't the "best schools" the ones that can grow your kid the most? That's not necessarily the ones with the best scores. Some of the best scoring schools do a fantastic job on student growth and others are nothing special. There are also schools that have moderate scores but show consistently above average growth.

Why don't you pull the growth scores and show us the top 10 elementaries?

OSSE hasn't released median growth percentiles for PARCC yet--hopefully they will at some point. Here are the top 10 elementaries by MGP from the DC-CAS, from https://ggwash.org/view/31322/heres-the-dc-school-ranking-you-should-be-looking-at . To anticipate questions, it is not true that it's somehow harder for schools with a high number of proficient kids to get a high MGP. That's not how MGP works.

MATH:
Achievement Prep
Ross ES
KIPP DC: KEY
Center City - Brightwood
Hope Community - Lamond
Eaton ES
Hyde-Addison ES
Stanton ES
Stoddert ES
Bancroft ES

READING:
Hyde-Addison ES
Murch ES
Janney ES
Key ES
Eaton ES
Oyster-Adams Bilingual EC
KIPP DC: KEY
Two Rivers - Elementary
Lafayette ES
Hendley ES

Thanks for posting. Interesting that aside from Two Rivers, there isn't a single "HRCS" on these lists.

[Anonymous]

^^ This is from 2013. Practically a lifetime ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ This is from 2013. Practically a lifetime ago

It would be interesting to see this type of list from more recent years of data and how frequently it changes. It's easy for a school to have a great year one year and a mediocre year the next. If a school has consistently high growth, that'd say something, but I think it would make it clear that there's a lot of variation year to year on student growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ This is from 2013. Practically a lifetime ago

It would be interesting to see this type of list from more recent years of data and how frequently it changes. It's easy for a school to have a great year one year and a mediocre year the next. If a school has consistently high growth, that'd say something, but I think it would make it clear that there's a lot of variation year to year on student growth.

The new ESSA reports just approved by OSSE will make this more accessible.

For now you can see them school by school by looking at the DCPCSB PMF scorecards (page 2, first item) and the DCPS profiles (you have to click into the green scorecard tab from the main school summary page).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are solidly middle-class and comfortable and went to ivy leagues for higher education and our kids attend a charter school that is more than 50% low SES. Our kids are thriving and are academically on par or above with kids of our friends - most of whom are solidly middle-class like us or very high SES. Our friends "marvel" at how well are kids are doing and I give credit to the school all the time, plus the fact that we are very engaged parents. Despite this, most of our circle would never consider sending their kids to our school. They prefer to pay for private when they strike out at one of the schools that has a much higher percentage of high SES students and a higher percentage of white students. There is honesty around this and it is known that our values do not align with theirs on this. We are happy and interestingly, they are the ones who complain all the time and struggle to cope with learning and behavior issues at their schools. But if you see black and brown and low income as "not good" then educational segregation will just continue and the charter school system is not immune.

+1

We have a similar experience at our EOTP DCPS.

What age are your kids. At middle school the bottom falls out and behavior becomes a bigger issue/problem

I bet you will go charter/private or move by 7th at the latest. (Don't feel any shame in doing this if you don't its border line child abuse..... don't martyr your kids future for some liberal multicultural crusade bs)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are solidly middle-class and comfortable and went to ivy leagues for higher education and our kids attend a charter school that is more than 50% low SES. Our kids are thriving and are academically on par or above with kids of our friends - most of whom are solidly middle-class like us or very high SES. Our friends "marvel" at how well are kids are doing and I give credit to the school all the time, plus the fact that we are very engaged parents. Despite this, most of our circle would never consider sending their kids to our school. They prefer to pay for private when they strike out at one of the schools that has a much higher percentage of high SES students and a higher percentage of white students. There is honesty around this and it is known that our values do not align with theirs on this. We are happy and interestingly, they are the ones who complain all the time and struggle to cope with learning and behavior issues at their schools. But if you see black and brown and low income as "not good" then educational segregation will just continue and the charter school system is not immune.

+1

We have a similar experience at our EOTP DCPS.

What age are your kids. At middle school the bottom falls out and behavior becomes a bigger issue/problem

I bet you will go charter/private or move by 7th at the latest. (Don't feel any shame in doing this if you don't its border line child abuse..... don't martyr your kids future for some liberal multicultural crusade bs)

Early elementary. If the middle school isn't good enough, then I'll certainly find another path. But I'm not going to judge the middle school by SES, race, or even by test scores alone. If I can see a path for my kids to learn well in a safe in environment at the neighborhood school, then that can be an option too.