Seeking advice - desperate - 7 year old anger issues

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert but this sounds a little like my own behavior when I was in a really bad work situation with a boss who was clearly trying to make me quit by piling too much work on and constantly finding fault. Once I found a work situation without this pressure I stopped getting angry all the time and exploding at home.
Is it possible to remove him from school temporarily or move him to a class with less pressure?

[Anonymous]

OP here - Thank you everyone for the comments and advice. For now, we'll see our therapist for several more sessions and then how he does. I'm hesitant to go down the psych evaluation route and our school counselor has also said that we don't need to go that route at this point. But he also doesn't know all the things we know about our son.

I think anxiety could be the problem. As a toddler, he would have blinking tics and it could have been related to whenever he felt nervous or stressed. There was a short time when he was throwing back his head and rolling his eyes - we got him checked out and he was ok.

Overall, he's a sensitive kid and we can do a better job making sure he's ok with everything that happens in our busy house. He's athletic so we have him in some sports but we are easing back and just giving him time to just be a kid. In the past we used traditional ways of disciplining him - time outs, taking away privileges, etc, and we disciplined him the way we disciplined our other kids - sometimes with an angry and frustrated voice. We realize now that that method doesn't work. We're able to see the triggers to big blowups in our house so we prevent them before he gets into his funk. The school on the other hand can't control everything so I can see blow-ups happening at school. He'll only go deeper into a funk if he's removed from class and he's taken to the counselor or principal.

I'm concerned at the sudden change in behavior and impulse control. He's about 90 percent super happy kid with lots of friends. The other 10 percent he's a monster - which he can't control and probably feels bad about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - Thank you everyone for the comments and advice. For now, we'll see our therapist for several more sessions and then how he does. I'm hesitant to go down the psych evaluation route and our school counselor has also said that we don't need to go that route at this point. But he also doesn't know all the things we know about our son.

I think anxiety could be the problem. As a toddler, he would have blinking tics and it could have been related to whenever he felt nervous or stressed. There was a short time when he was throwing back his head and rolling his eyes - we got him checked out and he was ok.

Overall, he's a sensitive kid and we can do a better job making sure he's ok with everything that happens in our busy house. He's athletic so we have him in some sports but we are easing back and just giving him time to just be a kid. In the past we used traditional ways of disciplining him - time outs, taking away privileges, etc, and we disciplined him the way we disciplined our other kids - sometimes with an angry and frustrated voice. We realize now that that method doesn't work. We're able to see the triggers to big blowups in our house so we prevent them before he gets into his funk. The school on the other hand can't control everything so I can see blow-ups happening at school. He'll only go deeper into a funk if he's removed from class and he's taken to the counselor or principal.

I'm concerned at the sudden change in behavior and impulse control. He's about 90 percent super happy kid with lots of friends. The other 10 percent he's a monster - which he can't control and probably feels bad about.

OP what are you waiting for? You're going to wait to get through my sessions with the therapist....the "school counselor" (who BTW isn't worth a damn no matter what school you're in) thinks there's no need for an eval?

You admit that you're concerned, and from what you write he's not just a "sensitive kid". I don't get why you are waiting to get an eval. Unless you're in denial and afraid to look under the rock to see what's really going on.

[Anonymous]

OP - I know it is very difficult to admit that a young child might have issues of a mental health concern, but if you had thoughts your child might have a cancer would you sit around for weeks or even months and not address the route cause of symptoms. You say clearly what the issue is that your child due to whatever triggers - internal or external will likely have more explosive episodes at school and end up being removed from the classroom if not the school. And you know what , it will not be your DS who is at fault, but you and DH (if you are married.)

Your son needs a diagnosis probably a neuro psych which if it takes a very long time to get should happen, but in this case also an evaluation by a pediatric psychiatrist for at least his/her input to consider on medication and the kind of therapy or therapist most able to help your DS. And because of how he acts out, you are putting other young children at risk of physical or emotional trauma themselves AND that is really not fair when you know there are real steps that you could take to help your son and to minimize his impact on other young kids.

[Anonymous]

OP, I get you. I have a 9-year-old child who is also a super happy, social kid 95 percent or more of the time but about 5 percent of the time he can be irritable and have a meltdown or tantrum which is not age appropriate. He is in many ways like your son minus the aggression (no hitting and throw things, etc.) He's had a full neuropsych which diagnosed him with ADHD and is getting two different types of therapy. We haven't tried meds but will consider if things do not improve. We take this very seriously and are doing everything we can to prevent these types of issues.

I'm telling you this because your son's case is similar but more severe and you sound like you're in denial. Everyone on this board will tell you hitting and throwing things and getting carried off by the principal is completely out of the norm and you need to get help. It could be the school is the wrong environment. It could be anxiety or other mood regulation issue. You are lucky your principal is being understanding. At our school they suspend for this type of behavior (which is completely wrong but that's a different story). Please get your son help so he can feel better about himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - Thank you everyone for the comments and advice. For now, we'll see our therapist for several more sessions and then how he does. I'm hesitant to go down the psych evaluation route and our school counselor has also said that we don't need to go that route at this point. But he also doesn't know all the things we know about our son.

I think anxiety could be the problem. As a toddler, he would have blinking tics and it could have been related to whenever he felt nervous or stressed. There was a short time when he was throwing back his head and rolling his eyes - we got him checked out and he was ok.

Overall, he's a sensitive kid and we can do a better job making sure he's ok with everything that happens in our busy house. He's athletic so we have him in some sports but we are easing back and just giving him time to just be a kid. In the past we used traditional ways of disciplining him - time outs, taking away privileges, etc, and we disciplined him the way we disciplined our other kids - sometimes with an angry and frustrated voice. We realize now that that method doesn't work. We're able to see the triggers to big blowups in our house so we prevent them before he gets into his funk. The school on the other hand can't control everything so I can see blow-ups happening at school. He'll only go deeper into a funk if he's removed from class and he's taken to the counselor or principal.

I'm concerned at the sudden change in behavior and impulse control. He's about 90 percent super happy kid with lots of friends. The other 10 percent he's a monster - which he can't control and probably feels bad about.

The counselor may be saying this because he doesn't want to create an obligation for the school to evaluate for a suspected disability. That doesn't mean he's right, or that he doesn't secretly think so.

I understand that it's hard, but your son needs a full evaluation and this behavior is very far out of the norm. I am actually surprised he hasn't been suspended already. Most schools probably would have and just because they're understanding now doesn't mean it will continue. And if he's being physically aggressive and putting other kids and adults at risk by kicking staff or throwing things, this is the sort of thing that ends in them clearing the classroom and doing a restraint. How will that make him feel? Please get an evaluation so you have all the tools necessary to help your son and can pinpoint what's going on.

[Anonymous]

I second getting a private neuropsych evaluation. I would be curious about ruling out any learning differences (that could be causing underlying anxiety and frustration), executive functioning, and ADD/ADH (impulsivity/decreased ability to regulate emotions) before you jump to interventions for the anger issues. Anger is a secondary emotion there is more to your little guys story.

Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I second getting a private neuropsych evaluation. I would be curious about ruling out any learning differences (that could be causing underlying anxiety and frustration), executive functioning, and ADD/ADH (impulsivity/decreased ability to regulate emotions) before you jump to interventions for the anger issues. Anger is a secondary emotion there is more to your little guys story.

Hugs.

THIS exactly.
OP, This is a process, I get it (I have a SN child who was out of control before we figured out the issues at hand and started different therapies). You are in denial. I know it's hard to see that there might be something wrong with your child. I do agree with the above poster. The anger is secondary to other issue(s) that may be going on (whether that is anxiety, ADHD, executive funtion issues, slow processing, LD's, ASD, ODD or whatever). You NEED to have your child evaluated. There are many good practitioners that people talk about here. Plus, places like Kennedy Kreiger and Children's take insurance (although they have a long wait usually).

If you insist on dealing with the anger only, I can only hope you have a good doctor that recognizes there are underlying issues and is able to steer you in the right direction. The longer you wait to address this the more friends your child looses and the more you become THAT parent.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I appreciate all the comments and the advice to get him evaluated asap. I'm not sure about the being in denial comments... I fully recognize he has a problem and that the behaviors are not normal. If I could give him medication to guarantee he won't blow up at school, then I would gladly do it. I had a long talk with the counselor again today and he was very clear that we shouldn't look into getting an evaluation until we see how the therapy works out. Our therapist -after 3 sessions- has not recommended an evaluation. She works a lot with these kinds of issues. So I guess my choice is to wait ?

I agree, he would've been suspended already! We go to a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all the comments and the advice to get him evaluated asap. I'm not sure about the being in denial comments... I fully recognize he has a problem and that the behaviors are not normal. If I could give him medication to guarantee he won't blow up at school, then I would gladly do it. I had a long talk with the counselor again today and he was very clear that we shouldn't look into getting an evaluation until we see how the therapy works out. Our therapist -after 3 sessions- has not recommended an evaluation. She works a lot with these kinds of issues. So I guess my choice is to wait ?

I agree, he would've been suspended already! We go to a private school.

Ok, so I will back off on my comment related to you being in denial. That said, I will not back down on my suggestion that you get him evaluated by a private psych.

I am so confused as to why the counselor is insistent on you waiting. That makes zero sense. In order for you to know what is really going on, you have to get a professional, private neuropsych evaluation by a private doctor. Along with telling you what is going on with your DS, it will also outline what types of therapies you should look in to.

Plus, its not like you'll be able to get an appt for an eval tomorrow. You will likely be on a 3 month+ wait list.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but as his mom you need to listen to your gut.

[Anonymous]

I think you need a comprehensive approach, not relying on the therapist's opinion. Therapy can take a LOOONG time. I agree with previous posters—the neuropsych eval will give all of you a lot of information to help you understand what's going on with your son.

[Anonymous]

What does he think an evaluation does?? A good evaluation will identify root causes so you can effectively address them, whether that is through specific therapies or a combination of therapy and medication. Does he think you're talking about paying out of pocket? I can understand not wanting to drop $2-$3k if you don't have to, but you do have the option of going through a place like KKI or Children's National that should be covered by insurance. They just have a longer wait time. I would highly recommend you get on the list now so you can complete an evaluation and have a plan before school starts in the fall.

FWIW, we went through several evaluations before we nailed down that DS's outbursts came from ASD and anxiety. Once we understood his patterns of rigidity and anxiety, we've been able to specifically address flexible thinking, big deal vs little deal, etc. We didn't get this until he was 9yo. It would have made such a difference to have started some of that much earlier when we were trying more conventional play therapies.

[Anonymous]

OP - You have heard from experienced parents here and you should get on one or more waiting lists for a neuro psych evaluation because your DS presents within your family setting and within the school as having issues that need to be addressed. Are you by any chance getting "push back" from a DH and not sharing this aspect as I could well understand that if it is hard for you to wrap you mind around, it might be even harder for a spouse. Again, sign up now and you have easily three months or the rest of the school year to see how things go and how therapy goes. By the way a therapist may or may not believe in medication as a rule, and you often have now way of knowing.

Read back over the thread in that you relaying that pretty much at home everyone must cater to this one child in speaking, in making requests and in disciplining or risk a major rant or worse is not normal at all. And the fact of about three explosive blowups in the classroom for whatever reason is clearly not acceptable. I am surprised that other parents have not pushed to get your son out of the school or will not soon do so because again their children are at risk with your son being in the classroom. You owe it to DS, to his siblings, to his classmates and to his teacher to take a more aggressive approach to finding out what has been going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you. I'll look up those books and read through the websites.

It's sad to see him struggling and to also feel like there isn't much we can do to help him. We are very conscious of the tone in our voices when we talk to him and overall trying to remain calm when the outbursts happen. He seems to get more fired up if we show any anger or frustration with him.

Other behaviors I've noticed over time: He takes a long time to forget instances where he's been wronged. He seems to never forget. I've at times had thoughts that he might have some mental illness. It sounds extreme but in those moments he just looks crazy to me. He says things like 'they should go to jail' quite frequently.

If we're driving and someone honks at me, he'll get upset and start yelling, even though I remain calm and don't say anything.

The most recent incident with the principal involved him taking of his shoes and throwing them and also telling all the adults to be quiet, repeatedly.

I'm afraid he will hurt students at school and recently thought that I could homeschool him if he doesn't get better.

I just don't know what brought about this sudden change in behavior. He had a great first semester. All of a sudden he doesn't like any of the kids in his class. He still wants to go to school but I don't he can control his impulses.

I can't internet diagnose obviously ... but has anyone mentioned autism to you? I posted at 11:59 and really hesitated to bring this up, but I re-read this comment. Some kids with autism have no language delays, are socially motivated, and have more subtle obsessions and stereotyped behaviors. We had a long road to my DS's ASD diagnosis. His K teacher mentioned it as a possibility, several psychologists and a dev ped discounted it off the bat, and then we finally did an ADOS on the recommendation of his therapist and got a diagnosis when he was almost 9yo. It's your DS's obsession with fairness and rules and the sensory stuff that reminds me of my DS at that age. I could be way off, but I distinctly remember how lost we all felt when DS was in K and I wish we'd immediately gone for thorough testing earlier on. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you. I'll look up those books and read through the websites.

It's sad to see him struggling and to also feel like there isn't much we can do to help him. We are very conscious of the tone in our voices when we talk to him and overall trying to remain calm when the outbursts happen. He seems to get more fired up if we show any anger or frustration with him.

Other behaviors I've noticed over time: He takes a long time to forget instances where he's been wronged. He seems to never forget. I've at times had thoughts that he might have some mental illness. It sounds extreme but in those moments he just looks crazy to me. He says things like 'they should go to jail' quite frequently.

If we're driving and someone honks at me, he'll get upset and start yelling, even though I remain calm and don't say anything.

The most recent incident with the principal involved him taking of his shoes and throwing them and also telling all the adults to be quiet, repeatedly.

I'm afraid he will hurt students at school and recently thought that I could homeschool him if he doesn't get better.

I just don't know what brought about this sudden change in behavior. He had a great first semester. All of a sudden he doesn't like any of the kids in his class. He still wants to go to school but I don't he can control his impulses.

I can't internet diagnose obviously ... but has anyone mentioned autism to you? I posted at 11:59 and really hesitated to bring this up, but I re-read this comment. Some kids with autism have no language delays, are socially motivated, and have more subtle obsessions and stereotyped behaviors. We had a long road to my DS's ASD diagnosis. His K teacher mentioned it as a possibility, several psychologists and a dev ped discounted it off the bat, and then we finally did an ADOS on the recommendation of his therapist and got a diagnosis when he was almost 9yo. It's your DS's obsession with fairness and rules and the sensory stuff that reminds me of my DS at that age. I could be way off, but I distinctly remember how lost we all felt when DS was in K and I wish we'd immediately gone for thorough testing earlier on. Good luck

PP, I'm wondering if the ASD diagnosis changed your approach with your DS? Our DS is 13 and has some ASD tendencies, i.e., severe anxiety, rigid, fixation on one subject, socially awkward, etc., but also has main traits that aren't indicative of ASD. He is on an SSRI and has been to a therapist, who ultimately said that whether or not he has an ASD diagnosis, her/our treatment would be the same. We receive all necessary accommodations so far in middle school and so haven't pursued the testing. And truth be told, I'm certain my DS would refuse such a test.