Let Lower Income "Pay Their Fair Share"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

As has been pointed out to you, they don't pay nothing, they pay no income tax. They pay payroll tax and sales tax and fees like the rest of us. I know everyone likes to share their favorite story of the deadbeat they know who doesn't work, but I think most of us know decent poor people who work, but they're just not getting out of poverty. I'm okay with them not paying. I'm okay with old people not paying, unless they're well off. I'm not okay with wealthy people having loopholes.

Yeah, I know all out the other taxes. I am speaking of fed income tax. Everyone should pay at least $8 month in income taxes. That's my opinion.

To a person who is very poor, $8/month can mean going without food for one meal. Again, I'm not a liberal, but I have compassion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disagree completely. You aren't going to teach ethics through the tax code. Poor people don't have a victim mentality. That's too simplistic a view of what's going on. Instead you must look at untreated substance use and mental health problems, higher proportions of lead poisoning, higher rates of physical and intellectual disabilities --- all of which hinder economic growth. People who face these challenges need even more access to quality education, food, and health care. And they don't get it. If you charge $10 for a doctor's visit, that's one less time Mom goes to the doctor because she's trying to stretch the cash to pay for the night sitter so she can work the second job. Or get the car fixed so she can keep that job. Providing an adequate safety net allows people to continue to work and feed their kids, and make it out of poverty. What we have now is adequate for some but not for many.

I got out of poverty because I could work year round and pay tuition at Maryland. But I was lucky enough to be able to live at home. Had an alcoholic dad but I could put up with him. My friend, in similar circumstances, had a dad who molested her when he was drunk. She got pregnant at 13 with his baby. She fled by 15, the baby being raised by her mom, as her sister. She's never made it out of poverty. She works at 7 Eleven when she feels like it. When she's not struggling with depression. She is too emotionally damaged. Howard County, FWIW. I'm fine with paying taxes to take care of her. Totally fine. I would hope our entire society would be fine with caring for those who cannot care for themselves, for whatever reason, including the invisible ones.

We would still be caring for them. I'm not suggesting we kill welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, and close-to-free medical. It seems that when anyone suggests that poor people contribute bsck a miniscule fraction of the support the taxpayers are providing, liberals act as if we are abandoning them. When the country is providing tens of thousands of aid, I don't think requiring a tax of $100 is cold hearted. Everyone should have skin in the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

If you want to be credible and objective, you can't assume anything. Who are you to assume anything about me? To say I'm liberal, or anything else? You don't know me.
I inference from your post, though, that you've never been very poor yourself and have no first hand knowledge of what it means to live your life day after day scraping pennies together and not having any certainty for the future. It's grinding and incredibly stressful, so much so that research has shown people's brains are permanently affected by this kind of life. You can't tax someone like this "in advance". Correct me if I am wrong and you have, in fact, suffered like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

As has been pointed out to you, they don't pay nothing, they pay no income tax. They pay payroll tax and sales tax and fees like the rest of us. I know everyone likes to share their favorite story of the deadbeat they know who doesn't work, but I think most of us know decent poor people who work, but they're just not getting out of poverty. I'm okay with them not paying. I'm okay with old people not paying, unless they're well off. I'm not okay with wealthy people having loopholes.

Yeah, I know all out the other taxes. I am speaking of fed income tax. Everyone should pay at least $8 month in income taxes. That's my opinion.

To a person who is very poor, $8/month can mean going without food for one meal. Again, I'm not a liberal, but I have compassion.

But the middle class person might have to skip recommended medical care. Do you have compassion for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But the middle class person might have to skip recommended medical care. Do you have compassion for them?

I've skipped various recommended medical care for years because of money, OP. I'm middle class. Not the fault of Obamacare or poor people, it's because medical care is expensive

[Anonymous]

Poor people pay sales taxes, excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and what they don't pay directly is passed onto them by adding it to the rent and other costs. They need public services more but generally get worse services than middle and upper income people and neighborhoods. The legal system and court system never cut them any slack they way they do for rich people all the time. If you follow the money, even social programs that help poor people are designed and administered in a way to enrich drug companies, nursing home operators, and other medical companies, slumlords and developers, food manufacturers and retailers, etc.

Stop resenting poor people. They are not the ones living the high life with your money.

[Anonymous]

The "skin in the game" posters have no idea what they are talking about.

The working poor pay state, local, and sales taxes.

In addition, they get the earned income tax credit, which is worth hundreds of dollars typically. The EITC is a REPUBLICAN idea.

So why on earth would these people pay a nominal amount, and then get hundreds and hundreds of dollars back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

If you want to be credible and objective, you can't assume anything. Who are you to assume anything about me? To say I'm liberal, or anything else? You don't know me.
I inference from your post, though, that you've never been very poor yourself and have no first hand knowledge of what it means to live your life day after day scraping pennies together and not having any certainty for the future. It's grinding and incredibly stressful, so much so that research has shown people's brains are permanently affected by this kind of life. You can't tax someone like this "in advance". Correct me if I am wrong and you have, in fact, suffered like this.

No....not very poor. But for the first time in my adult life, I find myself having to sacrifice needed medical care due to our insistence that the poor people get everything paid for completely. Trying to come up with premiums every month, in addition to ongoing medical bills, is also incredibly stressful - and made more so when I hear people brag about how THEIR care is free. I just don't get why people defend the poor people, and have no compassion for middle class people who have been hard hit financially in order to provide more for the poor people than they can afford themselves. Do you think it is is fair that the poor person gets better medical care (free to them) than I can afford for myself because my bills have tripled in order to pay the free care in the first place? (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but as I've stated, I'm in PT and getting tired right now, I'm going to have to sign off, but I did want to respond.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But the middle class person might have to skip recommended medical care. Do you have compassion for them?

I've skipped various recommended medical care for years because of money, OP. I'm middle class. Not the fault of Obamacare or poor people, it's because medical care is expensive

It's the fault of Obamacare in my case. The rise in premiums and deductibles have escalated far quicker than before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

If you want to be credible and objective, you can't assume anything. Who are you to assume anything about me? To say I'm liberal, or anything else? You don't know me.
I inference from your post, though, that you've never been very poor yourself and have no first hand knowledge of what it means to live your life day after day scraping pennies together and not having any certainty for the future. It's grinding and incredibly stressful, so much so that research has shown people's brains are permanently affected by this kind of life. You can't tax someone like this "in advance". Correct me if I am wrong and you have, in fact, suffered like this.

No....not very poor. But for the first time in my adult life, I find myself having to sacrifice needed medical care due to our insistence that the poor people get everything paid for completely. Trying to come up with premiums every month, in addition to ongoing medical bills, is also incredibly stressful - and made more so when I hear people brag about how THEIR care is free. I just don't get why people defend the poor people, and have no compassion for middle class people who have been hard hit financially in order to provide more for the poor people than they can afford themselves. Do you think it is is fair that the poor person gets better medical care (free to them) than I can afford for myself because my bills have tripled in order to pay the free care in the first place? (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but as I've stated, I'm in PT and getting tired right now, I'm going to have to sign off, but I did want to respond.)

I feel your pain, but your anger is misplaced. Poor people do NOT have it better than you do because they are getting stuff for "free." You would not want to live in subsidized housing, get your health care from a clinic, or use food stamps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

If you want to be credible and objective, you can't assume anything. Who are you to assume anything about me? To say I'm liberal, or anything else? You don't know me.
I inference from your post, though, that you've never been very poor yourself and have no first hand knowledge of what it means to live your life day after day scraping pennies together and not having any certainty for the future. It's grinding and incredibly stressful, so much so that research has shown people's brains are permanently affected by this kind of life. You can't tax someone like this "in advance". Correct me if I am wrong and you have, in fact, suffered like this.

No....not very poor. But for the first time in my adult life, I find myself having to sacrifice needed medical care due to our insistence that the poor people get everything paid for completely. Trying to come up with premiums every month, in addition to ongoing medical bills, is also incredibly stressful - and made more so when I hear people brag about how THEIR care is free. I just don't get why people defend the poor people, and have no compassion for middle class people who have been hard hit financially in order to provide more for the poor people than they can afford themselves. Do you think it is is fair that the poor person gets better medical care (free to them) than I can afford for myself because my bills have tripled in order to pay the free care in the first place? (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but as I've stated, I'm in PT and getting tired right now, I'm going to have to sign off, but I did want to respond.)

Really this is connected? So you are saying because you pay so much in taxes (which by the way only a tiny portion goes to medicaid) you can't afford medical care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poor people pay sales taxes, excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and what they don't pay directly is passed onto them by adding it to the rent and other costs. They need public services more but generally get worse services than middle and upper income people and neighborhoods. The legal system and court system never cut them any slack they way they do for rich people all the time. If you follow the money, even social programs that help poor people are designed and administered in a way to enrich drug companies, nursing home operators, and other medical companies, slumlords and developers, food manufacturers and retailers, etc.

Stop resenting poor people. They are not the ones living the high life with your money.

Then the poor people need to shut the hell up when we are in a doctor's office, and I've just gone through a big (and loud) discussion with the front desk about the cost for surgery and if we can work out a payment plan....and then sit down to have a patient announce to me...."I don't pay ANYTHING! The government pays the whole thing." Isn't that stupid of the poor person to say that, knowing that I'm trying to figure out how to afford this surgery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people pay sales taxes, excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and what they don't pay directly is passed onto them by adding it to the rent and other costs. They need public services more but generally get worse services than middle and upper income people and neighborhoods. The legal system and court system never cut them any slack they way they do for rich people all the time. If you follow the money, even social programs that help poor people are designed and administered in a way to enrich drug companies, nursing home operators, and other medical companies, slumlords and developers, food manufacturers and retailers, etc.

Stop resenting poor people. They are not the ones living the high life with your money.

Then the poor people need to shut the hell up when we are in a doctor's office, and I've just gone through a big (and loud) discussion with the front desk about the cost for surgery and if we can work out a payment plan....and then sit down to have a patient announce to me...."I don't pay ANYTHING! The government pays the whole thing." Isn't that stupid of the poor person to say that, knowing that I'm trying to figure out how to afford this surgery?

Why are you having a big, loud discussion about how to pay for surgery at the front desk? I worked in hospital billing for many years and nothing was handled in a public waiting room. It also kind of is hard to believe that both you and the "government" patient were discussing the exact same surgery at the same moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It has always been a fact that the middle classes, as soon as they came into being, paid the brunt of taxes and were the real drivers of the economy.

The rich as a group have also paid their share. Some of them have indeed paid enormous sums, but not in this country, and the rest always found creative, but legal, ways of evading taxes. You have to understand that the rich are taxed much more in certain other developed countries, and that taxes here are comparatively reasonable.

And I doubt anyone would argue that the very poor should pay more in taxes - would you want to send them to debtor's prison, like they did in 19th century England, when they have no money left?

Your post is rather astoundingly ignorant. I urge you to read and study a little more.

When did I say the very poor should pay "more" in taxes? There's no such thing as more....they pay nothing. (As does nearly half the country.) To the contrary, they are net receivers - even if they paid a token amount.

And what a leap to debtors' prison! Besides the fact they don't exist, we wouldn't worry about any debt. Just like we do, they would "pay" in advwnce throughout the year. If their "earnings" are via welfare, a little $8 deduction for a total of a $100 tax liability is more than reasonable.

Your attitude is not surprising, though. I've found many liberals become aghast at the thought that pooer people on all sorts of government assistance kick back even 1% in taxes, while having no problem bankrupting the middle class with taxes to pay for the poorer people.

If you want to be credible and objective, you can't assume anything. Who are you to assume anything about me? To say I'm liberal, or anything else? You don't know me.
I inference from your post, though, that you've never been very poor yourself and have no first hand knowledge of what it means to live your life day after day scraping pennies together and not having any certainty for the future. It's grinding and incredibly stressful, so much so that research has shown people's brains are permanently affected by this kind of life. You can't tax someone like this "in advance". Correct me if I am wrong and you have, in fact, suffered like this.

No....not very poor. But for the first time in my adult life, I find myself having to sacrifice needed medical care due to our insistence that the poor people get everything paid for completely. Trying to come up with premiums every month, in addition to ongoing medical bills, is also incredibly stressful - and made more so when I hear people brag about how THEIR care is free. I just don't get why people defend the poor people, and have no compassion for middle class people who have been hard hit financially in order to provide more for the poor people than they can afford themselves. Do you think it is is fair that the poor person gets better medical care (free to them) than I can afford for myself because my bills have tripled in order to pay the free care in the first place? (Sorry for the run-on sentence, but as I've stated, I'm in PT and getting tired right now, I'm going to have to sign off, but I did want to respond.)

Really this is connected? So you are saying because you pay so much in taxes (which by the way only a tiny portion goes to medicaid) you can't afford medical care?

OK....I really do need to sign off, but....no, it's not the taxes. It's that my premiums have more than doubled, and I'm getting less than half the coverage. I suppose I'm conflating two issues, but it's the same concept. If the insurance companies have to pay the whole bill for poor people, then they need to overcharge me to make uo the difference. But even with $20000+ in premiums for middle income families! it STILL isn't enough to cover the free care to the poor people. That is why the carriers are leaving the exchanges - they're losing a fortune. OK, that will have to be it for now. Have a nice evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor people pay sales taxes, excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and what they don't pay directly is passed onto them by adding it to the rent and other costs. They need public services more but generally get worse services than middle and upper income people and neighborhoods. The legal system and court system never cut them any slack they way they do for rich people all the time. If you follow the money, even social programs that help poor people are designed and administered in a way to enrich drug companies, nursing home operators, and other medical companies, slumlords and developers, food manufacturers and retailers, etc.

Stop resenting poor people. They are not the ones living the high life with your money.

Then the poor people need to shut the hell up when we are in a doctor's office, and I've just gone through a big (and loud) discussion with the front desk about the cost for surgery and if we can work out a payment plan....and then sit down to have a patient announce to me...."I don't pay ANYTHING! The government pays the whole thing." Isn't that stupid of the poor person to say that, knowing that I'm trying to figure out how to afford this surgery?

Why are you having a big, loud discussion about how to pay for surgery at the front desk? I worked in hospital billing for many years and nothing was handled in a public waiting room. It also kind of is hard to believe that both you and the "government" patient were discussing the exact same surgery at the same moment.

Well, that's where the discussion was. And the poor patient wasn't having my exact surgery. I have no idea what her surgery was going to be. She just felt it necessary, after I was in shock over the cost of my surgery, to tell me that the government was paying for hers.