Let Lower Income "Pay Their Fair Share"!

[Anonymous]

We also need to get away from this often false belief that poor people are doing "without" through no fault of their own and therefore we should not expect that they contribute in any way. In some cases, low-income ARE going without because they ARE lazy or making irresponsible decisions. Sorry, but it's true.

1. I know someone always complaining how little she earns (with no acknowledgement that food stamps and subsidized housing provided by taxpayers were easing her situation). She also recently complained that she can't afford health insurance, so I pointed out that she can get a completely free plan by signing up for Obamacare. She told me she went on the computer to do that, but it TOOK TOO MUCH TIME and she quit after 10 minutes. She said poor people should just be issued a card without having to go through the sign-up hassle. (The sign-up hassles are OK for the middle class, though.)

2. I also know a kid from a low-income family who told me that his parents couldn't even afford to send him to community college. (In the meantime, they have a later model car than I do.) I told him that Pell Grants will pay the ENTIRE tuition. He said his parents didn't want to fill out the form. Too much trouble, they said. They are insisting that poor students just shouldn't have to pay; they shouldn't have to "jump through hoops" to get the aid they were entitled to. (If the form is too hard for the parents, there are offices to guide them thought it. They just don't want to bother.)

C'mon, liberals. Face it. It's not too much to expect low-income to do anything at all before we provide them with $30,000 or more of benefits? (Add it up. Their is insurance policy alone is worth $15k. Then add in welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc., and it can be more than that.)

[Anonymous]

OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You neglected to state that the very top really don't pay their fair share via loopholes and tax deductions, which the lower/middle income folks never get to use. Sure, they pay a lot in taxes, but that's because they make a lot. But, if they only pay 10% in taxes, and middle/upper are paying 30%, then that's not fair is it?

But, I agree with you in that the middle and upper/middle are the only groups probably paying their "fair share".

If we got rid of all the loopholes, then I might agree with you.

OP here. I agree that there should be a minimum for the very top. I thought the AMT (don't know much about that.....never impacted me) was supposed to take care of that. I have no problem phasing out loopholes for those at the top, and requiring a "floor" percentage of 25% or thereabouts. (Many middle class don't pay 30% - that's the top marginal rate but the actual percentage paid is less.)

LOL.

The bolded is such a perfect encapsulation of idiocy. "I don't know anything about tax policy, but I am spouting off on the internet about tax policy."

Yeah, OP. Why don't you close down DCUM and go read a book about taxes. Or better yet, several books! Or take an online course. Because -- surprise, surprise! -- your ignorance is not compelling. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Yes! There must be MILLIONS of billionaires doing this shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Believe me, there aren't millions of people carrying forward a $900 million loss. You could confiscate the entire net worth of the Forbes 400 and it would barely move the needle on the debt.

And it's not the same thing. Trump is entitled to write off that loss until we change the law. But the poor people are not entitled to get their tuition paid for and their insurance paid for unless they are willing to fill out a form. And that's what they're complaining about - that some action is required of them before they get other people's hard-earned money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Believe me, there aren't millions of people carrying forward a $900 million loss. You could confiscate the entire net worth of the Forbes 400 and it would barely move the needle on the debt.

And it's not the same thing. Trump is entitled to write off that loss until we change the law. But the poor people are not entitled to get their tuition paid for and their insurance paid for unless they are willing to fill out a form. And that's what they're complaining about - that some action is required of them before they get other people's hard-earned money.

The scandal is not that he's doing it, but that it is allowed under the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Yes! There must be MILLIONS of billionaires doing this shit.

Is this a joke? We don't have MILLIONS of billionaires in this country. You're either ignorant or being sarcastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Yes! There must be MILLIONS of billionaires doing this shit.

Is this a joke? We don't have MILLIONS of billionaires in this country. You're either ignorant or being sarcastic.

The latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Yes! There must be MILLIONS of billionaires doing this shit.

Is this a joke? We don't have MILLIONS of billionaires in this country. You're either ignorant or being sarcastic.

There are about 500. If liberals really think there are millions of billionaires, no wonder they think taxing the rich will raise enough money to expand entitlement programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK first of all, much of the reason for poor people not paying income tax is that republicans under Reagan popularized the Earned Income Tax Credit as the Republican answer to poverty.

Second, your anecdote about two people you know who do not want to fill out forms does not nullify the behavior of millions who do. And obviously you know this because if no one ever bothered to fill out forms, we would be budgeting zero dollars for these benefit programs.

My point is that if I know two, there are also MILLIONS others who also don't feel they need to do anything to get what they are "entitled" to. It's the demanding attitude that everything be provided without any expectations of them that I am pointing out.

Oh yeah. Like, I know this one guy who claimed a $900 million loss so he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years!

And if I know one, I'm sure there are MILLIONS of others. We need to start letting those people know they aren't "entitled" to pay zero in taxes!

Yes! There must be MILLIONS of billionaires doing this shit.

Is this a joke? We don't have MILLIONS of billionaires in this country. You're either ignorant or being sarcastic.

The latter.

Whew!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My job is helping poor people in a medical setting and what I've noticed is a majority of the people getting free and cheap medical care are elderly, or mentally or physically disabled. Many are not even literate and more are mentally ill. They truly are unable to care for themselves in many ways. They are so poor, free medical care is all they have, but they often can't even afford transportation to their appointments. There isn't a reason in the world to feel these people are getting something better or more easily than you. You cannot hold them to the same expectations you have for yourself, and it would be cruel and uncivilized to deny them basic heathcare, food and shelter.

How about my "mentally ill" brother in law who was given a diagnosis of mental illness by a psychiatrist in California so that he would qualify to receive SSI disability. He has no mental illness (confirmed by two psychiatrists in Washington and Alexandria). What he has is raging alcoholism and does nothing to help himself. To continue to receive his SSI, he must see a social worker in Fairfax County, and she has twice arranged for him to go to expensive, private alcohol treatment programs. When my husband drove him to the places, he refused to go both times. The social worker continues to try to cajole him into going. He doesn't want to go, he will not go, and he will not stop drinking. These are his admissions, not mine. Because of his extreme guilt that he is the good, successful brother, my husband bends over backwards to accommodate/enable his brother. He takes him to buy his cigarettes and booze because (thankfully) he cannot drive. We have him a condo that he doesn't think is quite good enough for him, but is good enough for many of the mid level military and government people who live there. He is always under some action by the condo board for creating noise and being disruptive in the elevator. The condo lawyer told us the next time he creates a problem, they are taking legal action against him.

We and the system have spent thousands of dollars on him. He will not comply with anything, will not cooperative, and is a serious jerk.

Quite frankly, I would like to boot him out of the condo and put someone in who needs a nice place to live. He pays us nothing for the condo, so any rent we got would be a bonus.

Sorry to vent, but when people defend the mentally ill, there is often a family and government entity behind that person who has tried everything.

Yes, I know that others will say that my brother-in-law is an anomaly, but he isn't You should see the places my husband has had to retreve him from. They are filled with people like him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My job is helping poor people in a medical setting and what I've noticed is a majority of the people getting free and cheap medical care are elderly, or mentally or physically disabled. Many are not even literate and more are mentally ill. They truly are unable to care for themselves in many ways. They are so poor, free medical care is all they have, but they often can't even afford transportation to their appointments. There isn't a reason in the world to feel these people are getting something better or more easily than you. You cannot hold them to the same expectations you have for yourself, and it would be cruel and uncivilized to deny them basic heathcare, food and shelter.

I don't hear anyone talking about denying them basic healthcare, food, and shelter.

What I DO hear is that in the crazy world of liberalism, poor people are getting superior "gold" level health insurance - free - while the struggling middle class can barely afford the silver. Why are people supposed to buy better care for poor people than they can afford themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is helping poor people in a medical setting and what I've noticed is a majority of the people getting free and cheap medical care are elderly, or mentally or physically disabled. Many are not even literate and more are mentally ill. They truly are unable to care for themselves in many ways. They are so poor, free medical care is all they have, but they often can't even afford transportation to their appointments. There isn't a reason in the world to feel these people are getting something better or more easily than you. You cannot hold them to the same expectations you have for yourself, and it would be cruel and uncivilized to deny them basic heathcare, food and shelter.

How about my "mentally ill" brother in law who was given a diagnosis of mental illness by a psychiatrist in California so that he would qualify to receive SSI disability. He has no mental illness (confirmed by two psychiatrists in Washington and Alexandria). What he has is raging alcoholism and does nothing to help himself. To continue to receive his SSI, he must see a social worker in Fairfax County, and she has twice arranged for him to go to expensive, private alcohol treatment programs. When my husband drove him to the places, he refused to go both times. The social worker continues to try to cajole him into going. He doesn't want to go, he will not go, and he will not stop drinking. These are his admissions, not mine. Because of his extreme guilt that he is the good, successful brother, my husband bends over backwards to accommodate/enable his brother. He takes him to buy his cigarettes and booze because (thankfully) he cannot drive. We have him a condo that he doesn't think is quite good enough for him, but is good enough for many of the mid level military and government people who live there. He is always under some action by the condo board for creating noise and being disruptive in the elevator. The condo lawyer told us the next time he creates a problem, they are taking legal action against him.

We and the system have spent thousands of dollars on him. He will not comply with anything, will not cooperative, and is a serious jerk.

Quite frankly, I would like to boot him out of the condo and put someone in who needs a nice place to live. He pays us nothing for the condo, so any rent we got would be a bonus.

Sorry to vent, but when people defend the mentally ill, there is often a family and government entity behind that person who has tried everything.

Yes, I know that others will say that my brother-in-law is an anomaly, but he isn't You should see the places my husband has had to retreve him from. They are filled with people like him.

I know, PP. The abuses in the system are massive, and the degree of defense for the "needy" (some truly are, but many are not) is mind-boggling.