Bring Bible to School Day Should be Illegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Thanks. Yes, I'll call anyway. I'm sure they're find a plaintiff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thing I noticed is they're waiting until Thursday. Clearly, they made sure it didn't conflict with the Jewish New Year. No sense having their kids bring the New Testament to school if the little Jewish kids aren't there to be told how wrong they (and by extension, their parents) are in their religious beliefs.

That's nauseating.
- a Christian

PP. You mean nauseating what they're planning to do, not nauseating re my comment, yes?

[Anonymous]

I would never encourage my child to participate. We are far, far from Fundie Christians. We are Christians, but more spiritual than religious. We are more the UU type, although we attend a Unity church now. My kids are exposed to many spiritual paths at our church. That said, I disagree that kids should be prevented from bringing a Bible to school. That's exactly the response that the crazy Focus on the Family Southern Baptists want. They are going for the persecuted Christian angle. Also, are we going to start banning kids from bringing all religious material to school? Can you imagine the outrage if we banned the Koran from backpacks? That's just silly.

I say let them have their Bring Your Bible to School day. Teachers should just treat it like they would any distraction. You cannot have it out during class. If you want to read the Bible quietly when you are finished with class work or during lunch or recess. Read it. I don't see any problem with that. Read with an understanding of history, the Bible is actually an interesting read.

This should be a non issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

Look and see if there is a civil rights/constitutional law legal clinic at an area law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never encourage my child to participate. We are far, far from Fundie Christians. We are Christians, but more spiritual than religious. We are more the UU type, although we attend a Unity church now. My kids are exposed to many spiritual paths at our church. That said, I disagree that kids should be prevented from bringing a Bible to school. That's exactly the response that the crazy Focus on the Family Southern Baptists want. They are going for the persecuted Christian angle. Also, are we going to start banning kids from bringing all religious material to school? Can you imagine the outrage if we banned the Koran from backpacks? That's just silly.

I say let them have their Bring Your Bible to School day. Teachers should just treat it like they would any distraction. You cannot have it out during class. If you want to read the Bible quietly when you are finished with class work or during lunch or recess. Read it. I don't see any problem with that. Read with an understanding of history, the Bible is actually an interesting read.

This should be a non issue.

If all they're doing is reading it, fine. But the point is to "spread the word" to non-believers, even if done so indirectly by way of opening conversations. And children can be mean bullies, so it's not hard to imagine at least some of the conversations taking on a "holier than thou" tone with threats if he'll. I am adamantly opposed to this, and non-Christian children should be protected from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

Look and see if there is a civil rights/constitutional law legal clinic at an area law school.

Oohhh....good idea. (You must be a lawyer.) Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

The supreme court has already ruled that students have the right to pray in school, to start religious clubs in school, and to talk about their faith in school. There is a difference between the school/government promoting religion and private citizens promoting religion.

As long as the students are not actively disrupting class, this is protected free speech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

Look and see if there is a civil rights/constitutional law legal clinic at an area law school.

Oohhh....good idea. (You must be a lawyer.) Thanks again.

Yes I am. And though that time has passed, I did have a few years where beating up on Jim was my favorite pastime! Good fun. Truly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never encourage my child to participate. We are far, far from Fundie Christians. We are Christians, but more spiritual than religious. We are more the UU type, although we attend a Unity church now. My kids are exposed to many spiritual paths at our church. That said, I disagree that kids should be prevented from bringing a Bible to school. That's exactly the response that the crazy Focus on the Family Southern Baptists want. They are going for the persecuted Christian angle. Also, are we going to start banning kids from bringing all religious material to school? Can you imagine the outrage if we banned the Koran from backpacks? That's just silly.

I say let them have their Bring Your Bible to School day. Teachers should just treat it like they would any distraction. You cannot have it out during class. If you want to read the Bible quietly when you are finished with class work or during lunch or recess. Read it. I don't see any problem with that. Read with an understanding of history, the Bible is actually an interesting read.

This should be a non issue.

If all they're doing is reading it, fine. But the point is to "spread the word" to non-believers, even if done so indirectly by way of opening conversations. And children can be mean bullies, so it's not hard to imagine at least some of the conversations taking on a "holier than thou" tone with threats if he'll. I am adamantly opposed to this, and non-Christian children should be protected from it.

I see your point. I just don't see a way to prevent kids from bringing a Bible to school without feeding the whole "Christians are being persecuted" nonsense. And again, do we really want to start banning religious texts? I think classroom teachers need to be vigilant and I think this needs to be given as little attention as possible. Just my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The supreme court has already ruled that students have the right to pray in school, to start religious clubs in school, and to talk about their faith in school. There is a difference between the school/government promoting religion and private citizens promoting religion.

As long as the students are not actively disrupting class, this is protected free speech.

True. But here, there is a private group actively using a public school as an agent (witting or unwitting). That's the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

Look and see if there is a civil rights/constitutional law legal clinic at an area law school.

Oohhh....good idea. (You must be a lawyer.) Thanks again.

Yes I am. And though that time has passed, I did have a few years where beating up on Jim was my favorite pastime! Good fun. Truly.

Ha! Until today, I never heard of this Jim guy or his Focus on the Family group. (Just as well.) But someone upthread just posted that the Supreme Court has already ruled on this type of thing, and that unless class is disrupted (or the school itself is organizing it as opposed to a private group), it's protected free speech. I'm just feeling sorry for the non-Christian kiddos who are likely to be unfairly targeted on Thursday. (I also don't blame the Christian kiddos who will be trying to "share" their bibles. They don't understand the ramifications.) Anyway, thanks for your advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never encourage my child to participate. We are far, far from Fundie Christians. We are Christians, but more spiritual than religious. We are more the UU type, although we attend a Unity church now. My kids are exposed to many spiritual paths at our church. That said, I disagree that kids should be prevented from bringing a Bible to school. That's exactly the response that the crazy Focus on the Family Southern Baptists want. They are going for the persecuted Christian angle. Also, are we going to start banning kids from bringing all religious material to school? Can you imagine the outrage if we banned the Koran from backpacks? That's just silly.

I say let them have their Bring Your Bible to School day. Teachers should just treat it like they would any distraction. You cannot have it out during class. If you want to read the Bible quietly when you are finished with class work or during lunch or recess. Read it. I don't see any problem with that. Read with an understanding of history, the Bible is actually an interesting read.

This should be a non issue.

While your thought is a reasonable one, unfortunately, there will be those in the classroom including the teacher, who may not be so reasonable. Some kids may feel it is their sworn duty to point out errors in another child's religious readings.

As a Christian, I don't feel this is the right way to go. If you want to discuss religions from a historical perspective that is fine or even quietly reading at lunch/recess, but for anything else in the classroom, the chance for proselytizing is just too great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's Jim Dobson and Focus of the Family! What else do you expect them to do? Lol. Nothing will come of it. It's undoubtedly unconstitutional.

I never heard of that group. Far-right evangelicals?

They make far right evangelicals look sane and reasonable!

LOL. Well, it doesn't sound like anyone is stepping up to block it - and Thursday is day after tomorrow. They are running TV commercials (they sure have money, don't they?), and it's been widely promoted. I would hope someone would collect these bibles at the entrance of the school, telling the kids they will get them back at the end of the day, and explaining that it's unconstitutional. Then the teachers can explain about separation of church and state. Let's turn this into a teachable moment!

I am serious when I say this. If you have a kid who may be impacted, CALL THE ACLU. This is exactly the type of case they like and they love smacking Focus on the Family.

Must I have a kid who will be impacted to make the complaint to the ACLU? I'm no lawyer, but I'm aware that someone must "have standing" to bring a lawsuit. Does the same apply here? If not, I'll call.

Yes. You must have standing. Having your general sensibilities offended won't work. But call. They'll find a plaintiff.

Just following up here. I did try to call. The recording said that due to volume, they cannot respond by phone but to fill out a form on their website - but warned it may take up to four weeks for action. I wonder if there's any other channel?

Look and see if there is a civil rights/constitutional law legal clinic at an area law school.

Oohhh....good idea. (You must be a lawyer.) Thanks again.

Yes I am. And though that time has passed, I did have a few years where beating up on Jim was my favorite pastime! Good fun. Truly.

Ha! Until today, I never heard of this Jim guy or his Focus on the Family group. (Just as well.) But someone upthread just posted that the Supreme Court has already ruled on this type of thing, and that unless class is disrupted (or the school itself is organizing it as opposed to a private group), it's protected free speech. I'm just feeling sorry for the non-Christian kiddos who are likely to be unfairly targeted on Thursday. (I also don't blame the Christian kiddos who will be trying to "share" their bibles. They don't understand the ramifications.) Anyway, thanks for your advice.

What PP failed to note was that those cases all involved students acting of their own accord. That is not the case here.

No. banning bibles would not be ok. Prohibiting private religious groups from using public schools as platforms for proselytization is ok.