MIL's out-of-control spending

[Anonymous]

If the CC company cannot take a lien against the house, I would be inclined to let MIL take the hit on her credit.

Otherwise, perhaps any disposible spending money you give can be reduced in order to pay off the card. She seems to need to learn that CC are not free money and will need to be paid back (but not by you).

[Anonymous]

Let the credit default and she will not be able to borrow in the future.

[Anonymous]

How is the credit card debt your problem? You are giving her the money for the basics to survive (house, utilities, food). Any debt she incurs needs to be her problem.

Keep paying for her basics but not with any of this new debt.

General financial question - at her stage in life, what are the consequences for getting a bad credit score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is the credit card debt your problem? You are giving her the money for the basics to survive (house, utilities, food). Any debt she incurs needs to be her problem.

Keep paying for her basics but not with any of this new debt.

General financial question - at her stage in life, what are the consequences for getting a bad credit score?

same as in any other way - limited ability to get good loan, auto insurance rates might be affected, certain employers are checking credit history (nobody will hire CFO or comptroller with bad one)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is the credit card debt your problem? You are giving her the money for the basics to survive (house, utilities, food). Any debt she incurs needs to be her problem.

Keep paying for her basics but not with any of this new debt.

General financial question - at her stage in life, what are the consequences for getting a bad credit score?

same as in any other way - limited ability to get good loan, auto insurance rates might be affected, certain employers are checking credit history (nobody will hire CFO or comptroller with bad one)

Pretty sure MIL isn't searching for C-suite opportunities. If they can't get a mortgage/re-fi, oh well. They're stuck where they are.

Agree with PPs that DH and BIL should consider only helping with bare necessities. Let her get hounded by collections, or file for bankruptcy.

[Anonymous]

What is she buying? Can you insist that she have a massive yard sale to recoup some of the money? I know she might not make much money, but why should she enjoy anything she's bought with other people's money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the credit card debt. Who cares? They can't take the house for it. It will mess up her credit - her problem and frankly that will keep her from getting another one. The house is secure (sounds like it - it's in trusts name, not theirs right? If not, change that -- a heloc would be a much different scenario).

I am in a similar situation in that I cover living expenses -- housing, food, utilities etc. - for my mentally ill mother. Any other debt? Her problem, not mine. She has a roof over her head and necessities to survive. I can't spin my wheels more to control the uncontrollable.

I'm sorry, it sucks, but hopefully this is a good lesson in detaching a bit. Good luck.

Thank you for your post. It's helpful to read from others in a similar situation, and your advice is very well-taken. Yes, house is in trust's name.

I suspect we will not bail her out but BIL will. I know that is his right to do and really none of my business as that is his mother but I agree this will just allow her to continue her nonsense and never take responsibility for her actions. Small point - but fact that after all of this they still show up to beach house with dog, and then play dumb after he shits all over the carpet, is truly amazing to me. Symbolic that they really don't give a damn and expect others to bail them out of every poor and selfish decision they make. Damn this will hopefully be my last vent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I understand the enabling part, I really do, but like most things in life, it's not quite that simple. When my husband and I first fell in love, and before we were married, he specifically told me that one of the things he would need to do is financially support his parents. He did this as a way to warn me that this is a financial obligation he would have to take on and he wanted me to know this before we got married. I respected my husband tremendously for his honestly, and 18 years later, I still respect his honestly and loyalty to both his parents but also to his wife and children. He managed to leave a dysfunctional lower middle class household, put himself through college and law school, and we have both been blessed with financial success (I'm also a lawyer) but we work really hard for it. As I mentioned in my original post, we can afford to help them out, but of course, within reason. I am not really taking away from my own family to help the ILs if that makes sense.

However, it's still the principal of the thing. We work very hard, we don't overspend, we do our best to help the IL's, and we were very responsible with not enabling her overspending. This is why we set up a trust, with an estate lawyer's assistance after she burned us the first time. All of the money we give them is controlled by the trust to pay their basic living expenses. I understand even this may be enabling but we are not willing to watch his parents live in poverty or lose their house, so we helped. However, as we just found out, a trust didn't prevent my MIL from applying for and receiving a credit card, enabling her to rack up thousands of more dollars in spending. This is where I assume our help will stop. I don't expect we will bail them out, but it is sad and painful to deal with this. It kills me to see how disappointed and sad (as well as angry) he is in the face of his mother's total disregard and selfishness. For those who had kind words, thanks for your feedback. It really does just help to vent here. The next couple of days with be rough for me as we are on vacation with the IL's and it's hard for me to even be around them I'm so disappointed and angry.

Did he warn you about his mother's spending problem? I guess it could have developed after you married, but the fact remains: The situation you were warned about has changed dramatically. Of course, it's up to you how to handle this. I know I couldn't go on supporting an irresponsible relative.

I say this as a daughter who fully expects to support her parents to the point of having the surviving parent move in with us. I completely understand your husband's obligations and respect his willingness to fulfill them. It's not common in these parts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is she buying? Can you insist that she have a massive yard sale to recoup some of the money? I know she might not make much money, but why should she enjoy anything she's bought with other people's money?

clothes for herself and stupid crap, none of which she needs. Also a bunch of unnecessary and junky toys for the boys. I finally put my foot down on her Christmas spending. She used to show up with (literally) a truck full of toys for the kids, which we knew we were paying for, until we told her to please stop.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP,

I am in a similar situation and the selfishness is infuriating. MY MIL is used to a certain kind of living that she cannot afford. She borrows money officially and then from friends and who knows whom... This borrowing can get dangerous (they live overseas).

We gave them over 20,000 dollars when we had very little. They forgot everything and still keep doing the same thing. Yet they live the children and children love them back. I am constantly in a state of getting over my anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Please try not to be mad. Clearly your MIL can't help herself - she has a compulsion to spend and your poor FIL can't be expected to manage it.

I don't know how a trust works, so maybe you could do this within those parameters, but... what if you don't pay the debt? What if MIL and FIL transfer ownership of all their assets to their children so that the debt collectors would take nothing?

Yea, your MIL is an addict, a shopping addict. Addiction comes in all forms. Addicts lie, that is part of the nature of the disease and it is probably hard for your DH to come to grips with his mom being an addict. You and DH need to sit down and have a hard discussion, first with each other and then the in-laws. You have to stop bailing them out, it is not helping MIL, it is enabling and furthering her addiction. And no, they will not be able to transfer all their assets and debt collectors get nothing. Try that in bankruptcy court and see what happens. It won't work. Is FIL on board in cutting MIL off cold regarding money? She needs to get help.

[Anonymous]

You and your DH are saints for putting up with it. The question is how do you keep your MIL from opening up credit cards? Sadly, the peddlers of CC's don't do a good job of screening. I'd talk with a bank, lawyer or credit card firm about there being any mechanisms that would automatically block her enrollment. I'm sure there is a big credit card association that can asset you. Or simply call Visa or Mastercard and ask someone in, possibly compliance, you can speak to. You and your husband sound like very capable people and some investigative work might pay off. Your MIL definitely has a problem. Counseling may help but you need to find a way to cut off the drugs.

[Anonymous]

Can your H or his brother get a financial POA and then freeze their credit? That way they would be prevented from opening new credit cards, lines of credit, second mortgages, etc. (Though I would hope the trust owns the home since you paid it off, but that's unclear since you say they got a second mortgage.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

I am in a similar situation and the selfishness is infuriating. MY MIL is used to a certain kind of living that she cannot afford. She borrows money officially and then from friends and who knows whom... This borrowing can get dangerous (they live overseas).

We gave them over 20,000 dollars when we had very little. They forgot everything and still keep doing the same thing. Yet they live the children and children love them back. I am constantly in a state of getting over my anger.

OP. I'm sorry you too have gone through this and thanks for your understanding post. Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You and your DH are saints for putting up with it. The question is how do you keep your MIL from opening up credit cards? Sadly, the peddlers of CC's don't do a good job of screening. I'd talk with a bank, lawyer or credit card firm about there being any mechanisms that would automatically block her enrollment. I'm sure there is a big credit card association that can asset you. Or simply call Visa or Mastercard and ask someone in, possibly compliance, you can speak to. You and your husband sound like very capable people and some investigative work might pay off. Your MIL definitely has a problem. Counseling may help but you need to find a way to cut off the drugs.

Answer is - there is no way to do it. Any attempts to control spending of adult of sound mind is borderline elderly abuse.
All OP's DH and BIL can do - try to protect assets, and don't worry too much about credit card companies losses.